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Post by snoggle on Jul 7, 2015 16:51:38 GMT
You also have the question what will happen to routes where driver changeovers require the tube? I am starting to wonder if 200 extra buses is actually enough for the network. I would hate to imagine Oxford Streey without the tube and not forgetting my local Stratford. I don't think it's a question of "Enough" but more one of "that's all Ensignbus and the operators can pull together". Not a criticism just a reflection of what can actually be pulled in as spare on a weekday when the schools are still open. The simple fact is that the routes that parallel the tube are already full in the rush hour so adding tens of thousands of extra journeys isn't really possible. Worse people who use the bus every day will be displaced by tube users who take to the buses instead. As I have said before most people are pretty clueless when they have to divert from their normal commute and it will be far worse on Thursday than more recent strikes because I don't expect a single train to run. I expect bus companies will have to run shuttle vans or arrange different relief points when there's no tube. It's not as if this is the first time they've had to consider this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 17:18:26 GMT
I don,t know if someone's already mentioned it before but the strike is for two days 8th and 9th.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 7, 2015 18:00:31 GMT
Reading it, all lines are expected to be completely out. This could call for some extras on routes different to last time Well I reckon TfL have a bit of a challenge on their hands because the traditional area for extra buses is the 8 / 25 / 205 but why put on extra buses so they just sit for ages in traffic jams? Further there is a race in the City of London in the early evening which will wreck early evening bus services and may well cause issues for drivers trying to get off shift and buses back to garages. The other huge problem area will be Elephant and Castle. Legions of people change to the tube there or change buses. Can you imagine the squash on those routes that run across E&C with all the people chucked off 468s, 155s, 333s, 363s, 136s etc etc? Oh and let's not forget the place grinds to a complete halt every rush hour because of the roadworks. I suspect Vauxhall will also be dreadful. The BBC are saying the strike is definitely on so chaos will reign. I can see Brixton being problematic - just about every route bar the P5 is crowded or overcrowded during the peaks on a normal day with loads waiting for buses at the stops. I wonder if there will be any pavement left to walk along lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:07:13 GMT
Not exactly looking forward to taking the 205. The problem is, any alternative routes I can take also parallel tube lines. *Sigh* It's going to be a long day.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:08:04 GMT
Ensign have confirmed they are putting out extras , including some vintage fleet buses.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:16:45 GMT
Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but couldn't the same 'pay formula' used for night bus drivers be used as a template? Would the knobheads at LU work or have their T&Cs changed without discussion and remuneration? I am one of the knobheads to which you refer. Makes a change from more derogatry terms. I dunno what arrangements bus drivers have but I would point out that each individual company has its own pay & conditions. On top of that, buses and trains are very different, its like comparing cake with soup - I should know as I've worked on both. What exactly is the issue? Good question. LU's multi year pay deal ran out in April and was due up for renegotiation. The Unions submitted their claims and the company responded with its offer, which included conditions related to night tube - something the Unions believed was a seperate issue. At This time LU also produced duty sheets which had rota lines such as late turns up until Thursday, nights Friday & Saturday, Sunday rest (despite finishing at 8am) then earlies from Monday! This is of course totally unacceptable (ie, lates to nights to earlies in 4 days). LU effectively ripped up the Professional Train Operators Agreement and ignored rostering parameters in order to deliver "night tube". The Unions told LU that they wanted to discuss and settle the basic pay deal first then look at night tube seperately after. LU refused and the two sides have remained stagnant since. Then yesterday, after three months of no movement, LU suddenly revised their offer which included £2,000 for drivers directly affected by night tube - but the offer was full & final and had to be accepted by 18.30 The Unions informed LU that the deadline was unrealistic as it didn't allow enough time to pass through the proper machinery, so LU withdrew their offer and there is thus currently nothing at all on the table. Therefore, the strike is very much on. Frankly, LU's "offer" yesterday was deliberately designed so that they could put into the media that they offered drivers £2,000 and it was rejected thus making us look like greedy bastards when the truth is completely different. It wasn't rejected by drivers - it was withdrawn by LU!! To add a little more meat to the current state of industrial relations, the last round of timetable changes saw a general increase in weekend working. For example, at my depot (Upminster) our current roster has a block of 20 weeks where we work every weekend! This has been resolved with a local agreement in place using our pool drivers to cover a couple of weekends to break it up, but the situation should never have come about in the first place. That was no typo - 20 weekends on the trot!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:25:13 GMT
Today was bad enough. It took about an hour to travel from Old Street to Limehouse this afternoon on the 135, a trip scheduled to take 31 mins. Needless to say, the bus I was in was turned at Limehouse Burdett Rd.
I agree with other posts above, there is a limited amount of buses TfL can put out, only to sit in traffic.
Don't envy the bus drivers , tough and stressful job made even harder.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:32:20 GMT
Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but couldn't the same 'pay formula' used for night bus drivers be used as a template? Would the knobheads at LU work or have their T&Cs changed without discussion and remuneration? I am one of the knobheads to which you refer. Makes a change from more derogatry terms. I dunno what arrangements bus drivers have but I would point out that each individual company has its own pay & conditions. On top of that, buses and trains are very different, its like comparing cake with soup - I should know as I've worked on both. What exactly is the issue? Good question. LU's multi year pay deal ran out in April and was due up for renegotiation. The Unions submitted their claims and the company responded with its offer, which included conditions related to night tube - something the Unions believed was a seperate issue. At This time LU also produced duty sheets which had rota lines such as late turns up until Thursday, nights Friday & Saturday, Sunday rest (despite finishing at 8am) then earlies from Monday! This is of course totally unacceptable (ie, lates to nights to earlies in 4 days). LU effectively ripped up the Professional Train Operators Agreement and ignored rostering parameters in order to deliver "night tube". The Unions told LU that they wanted to discuss and settle the basic pay deal first then look at night tube seperately after. LU refused and the two sides have remained stagnant since. Then yesterday, after three months of no movement, LU suddenly revised their offer which included £2,000 for drivers directly affected by night tube - but the offer was full & final and had to be accepted by 18.30 The Unions informed LU that the deadline was unrealistic as it didn't allow enough time to pass through the proper machinery, so LU withdrew their offer and there is thus currently nothing at all on the table. Therefore, the strike is very much on. Frankly, LU's "offer" yesterday was deliberately designed so that they could put into the media that they offered drivers £2,000 and it was rejected thus making us look like greedy bastards when the truth is completely different. It wasn't rejected by drivers - it was withdrawn by LU!! To add a little more meat to the current state of industrial relations, the last round of timetable changes saw a general increase in weekend working. For example, at my depot (Upminster) our current roster has a block of 20 weeks where we work every weekend! This has been resolved with a local agreement in place using our pool drivers to cover a couple of weekends to break it up, but the situation should never have come about in the first place. That was no typo - 20 weekends on the trot! Very interesting detail. I'm a public sector worker, and the trend of making us work "where the demand is greatest" without thinking of our own family and personal lives is not on. I'm thinking here about late nights, weekends, etc ... It's all very well saying we may give you some more money etc but for most they just want to have some time off with their families , or be off and not be totally shattered by shift work. I have always worked shifts, and love the flexibility it gives. But the rotas must be fair and give you enough time to adjust. All this for a night tube, I'm beginning to wonder whether it's necessary now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:42:55 GMT
Under the coaches travel advice, is this :- An hourly coach service will run from Victoria Coach station to Heathrow Central Bus Station and Terminals 4 and 5.
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 7, 2015 18:43:18 GMT
Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but couldn't the same 'pay formula' used for night bus drivers be used as a template? Would the knobheads at LU work or have their T&Cs changed without discussion and remuneration? I am one of the knobheads to which you refer. Makes a change from more derogatry terms. I dunno what arrangements bus drivers have but I would point out that each individual company has its own pay & conditions. On top of that, buses and trains are very different, its like comparing cake with soup - I should know as I've worked on both. What exactly is the issue? Good question. LU's multi year pay deal ran out in April and was due up for renegotiation. The Unions submitted their claims and the company responded with its offer, which included conditions related to night tube - something the Unions believed was a seperate issue. At This time LU also produced duty sheets which had rota lines such as late turns up until Thursday, nights Friday & Saturday, Sunday rest (despite finishing at 8am) then earlies from Monday! This is of course totally unacceptable (ie, lates to nights to earlies in 4 days). LU effectively ripped up the Professional Train Operators Agreement and ignored rostering parameters in order to deliver "night tube". The Unions told LU that they wanted to discuss and settle the basic pay deal first then look at night tube seperately after. LU refused and the two sides have remained stagnant since. Then yesterday, after three months of no movement, LU suddenly revised their offer which included £2,000 for drivers directly affected by night tube - but the offer was full & final and had to be accepted by 18.30 The Unions informed LU that the deadline was unrealistic as it didn't allow enough time to pass through the proper machinery, so LU withdrew their offer and there is thus currently nothing at all on the table. Therefore, the strike is very much on. Frankly, LU's "offer" yesterday was deliberately designed so that they could put into the media that they offered drivers £2,000 and it was rejected thus making us look like greedy bastards when the truth is completely different. It wasn't rejected by drivers - it was withdrawn by LU!! To add a little more meat to the current state of industrial relations, the last round of timetable changes saw a general increase in weekend working. For example, at my depot (Upminster) our current roster has a block of 20 weeks where we work every weekend! This has been resolved with a local agreement in place using our pool drivers to cover a couple of weekends to break it up, but the situation should never have come about in the first place. That was no typo - 20 weekends on the trot! Colin, My comment was directed to the management not the actual workers. I've been in a situation where the 'management' gave us a 'take it or leave it' scenario. Has your post been forwarded to the press? It might educate the masses, like it has me!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:44:41 GMT
As my employer, LU wouldn't like it if I went directly to the press. If the press see what is said in the public domain though.....
I find it frustrating that the Unions haven't put our side across particularly well.
EDIT: Also meant to add in my original post that the general consensus of opinion at my depot is that LU acted in the way it did yesterday to ensure the strike goes ahead. LU aren't ready for night tube and they know it but are being pushed politically by the Mayor.
They're hoping to get themelves off the hook by making us look like the bad boys and its all our fault that it won't happen. That's our theory anyway.
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 7, 2015 19:03:15 GMT
As my employer, LU wouldn't like it if I went directly to the press. If the press see what is said in the public domain though..... I find it frustrating that the Unions haven't put our side across particularly well. EDIT: Also meant to add in my original post that the general consensus of opinion at my depot is that LU acted in the way it did yesterday to ensure the strike goes ahead. LU aren't ready for night tube and they know it but are being pushed politically by the Mayor. They're hoping to get themelves off the hook by making us look like the bad boys and its all our fault that it won't happen. That's our theory anyway. Sounds like their 'press office' could do with a shake up!
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Post by vjaska on Jul 7, 2015 19:18:51 GMT
Today was bad enough. It took about an hour to travel from Old Street to Limehouse this afternoon on the 135, a trip scheduled to take 31 mins. Needless to say, the bus I was in was turned at Limehouse Burdett Rd. I agree with other posts above, there is a limited amount of buses TfL can put out, only to sit in traffic. Don't envy the bus drivers , tough and stressful job made even harder. That mirrors my journey on the Saturday just gone except that once we hit Commercial Road, the traffic evaporated to the point where the road was deserted at times. Didn't stop our 135 being turned though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 19:25:43 GMT
Today was bad enough. It took about an hour to travel from Old Street to Limehouse this afternoon on the 135, a trip scheduled to take 31 mins. Needless to say, the bus I was in was turned at Limehouse Burdett Rd. I agree with other posts above, there is a limited amount of buses TfL can put out, only to sit in traffic. Don't envy the bus drivers , tough and stressful job made even harder. That mirrors my journey on the Saturday just gone except that once we hit Commercial Road, the traffic evaporated to the point where the road was deserted at times. Didn't stop our 135 being turned though. You think that's bad, try taking the 205 from Liverpool Street to Bow!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 19:46:12 GMT
Today was bad enough. It took about an hour to travel from Old Street to Limehouse this afternoon on the 135, a trip scheduled to take 31 mins. Needless to say, the bus I was in was turned at Limehouse Burdett Rd. I agree with other posts above, there is a limited amount of buses TfL can put out, only to sit in traffic. Don't envy the bus drivers , tough and stressful job made even harder. That mirrors my journey on the Saturday just gone except that once we hit Commercial Road, the traffic evaporated to the point where the road was deserted at times. Didn't stop our 135 being turned though. We hit solid traffic approaching Shoreditch. Same all the way to Commercial Rd but as you said, once there we sped up.... Bizarre.
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