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Post by sid on Nov 2, 2015 21:03:13 GMT
It's all about money really. As in understand it, most companies would have to pay enhanced rates. So the operators would likely argue that to provide a service on a TfL contracted route, the costs would increase the tender bids. There is limited incentive to provide a commercial service unless you are guaranteed of a good return of sale, such as on the airport express routes that do run on a limited basis. My personal opinion is that TfL should actually be obliged to run a service for Londoners over that day simply because they are in total control of most public transport in London, it is a major capital city, there are many many tourists resident in London on that day, the airports open normally (except for domestic flights which are limited) , so there is a demand, not to mention the public sector workers who keep the country going who are compelled to work on this "sacred" day no matter their religion or way of life. Working on the basis that demand will come from these areas, plus certain quarters of London that are made up of communities that don't particularly celebrate the day itself, you could create a network of routes that would be viable. It would help the operators as well, because I believe some garages end up shuffling buses around simply because they can't all fit into their sheds at the same time. I agree with you that TfL should be obligated to provide some sort of Christmas day service at least in Central London. I suspect that there would be no shortage of drivers willing to work at an enhanced rate of pay.
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Post by sid on Nov 30, 2015 12:30:15 GMT
There will be an hourly service on the Oxford Tube on Christmas Day so anybody wanting to go from Hillingdon into Central London is in luck
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Dec 25, 2015 12:16:29 GMT
Back in 1978, LT offered a part-time free bus and tube service on Christmas Day.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 25, 2015 12:38:03 GMT
Back in 1978, LT offered a part-time free bus and tube service on Christmas Day. And interesting that they could do it by offsetting the wage costs saved against no fares. Couldn't do that now as there's no wage cost to be saved as ticket offices have gone and no cash fares are collected on buses. On the "Back in time for Christmas" programme (on I-Player) they featured a Christmas Day bus service when they did Christmas Day in the 1950s. Unfortunately the bus they used for the Christmas Day service to a football game was a AEC Swift from the 1960s.
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Post by mondraker275 on Dec 25, 2015 19:18:16 GMT
Why do we get sponsorship for extra buses and free travel on New Years Eve but not Christmas day? I think if I were a sponsor I would not mind sponsoring a Christmas day service.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 25, 2015 20:19:27 GMT
Why do we get sponsorship for extra buses and free travel on New Years Eve but not Christmas day? I think if I were a sponsor I would not mind sponsoring a Christmas day service. Does anyone actually know what the sponsor's contribution for NYE actually covers? It's advertised as funding the free travel but I wonder if it really does cover that or just a share of the revenue loss? Much of the extra cost of an all night tube, DLR and buses is written into contracts or budgets so that's already paid for and is probably quite small in the scheme of things given NYE / NYD are normal travel days anyway. I suspect that TfL has now become used to having a service where there is no need for people to pay - this eases boarding times, removes or reduces queues at ticket machines and gates etc. Given there are crowds of p*issed / very happy people travelling who have the potential to be more trouble than they're worth then taking out hassle factor is really important. Crowd control is a big issue in terms of safety and avoiding accidents and having less troublesome crowds to manage is important. You haven't got people complaining about lost Oyster cards / no money etc with the need for staff to attend to them. Bus drivers can just wave people on assuming there's space. When TfL couldn't get a sponsor a few years ago they covered the free travel cost themselves which I think gives the lie as to what is really going on - it suits TfL to not have people pay and it's almost a "tradition" so people expect it. It'd be bad reputationally not to offer it but let's see what zero revenue grant does in a couple of years time. In terms of a sponsor then NYE is a known big event with big crowds and lots of people will see the publicity / social media stuff so there is a known level of "exposure" for a sponsor. TfL and the police have a good handle on how many people are usually out and about so that helps too. Christmas Day bus services are a complete unknown with no proven demand. Even if a service was to be sponsored then it would never cover all of London as the NYE services broadly do. Therefore there is a downside risk for a sponsor of people whingeing "oh that sponsor was so stingy they didn't fund a bus service in my bit of London, I couldn't use a Christmas Day bus even though I wanted to go and see Auntie Ethel and Uncle Jim, disgusting is what I call it, modern day Scrooges that sponsor and the useless Mayor, Why bother? rant grumble moan" (you get the drift ) I think TfL would have to carry the cost for a few years while demand and popularity and the public's thanks for having the service established itself. Then a sponsor might view the attendant positive publicity as something worth paying for / being associated with.
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Post by sid on Dec 26, 2015 10:58:55 GMT
It seems evident again that there is plenty of demand for buses on Christmas Day, wouldn't a watered down version of the nightbus network be a good starting point?
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Post by Unorm on Dec 26, 2015 11:12:34 GMT
It seems evident again that there is plenty of demand for buses on Christmas Day, wouldn't a watered down version of the nightbus network be a good starting point? Was thinking the same, as it would extend further than daytime routes for covering more areas, traffic is less so that should help.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2015 12:26:59 GMT
It seems evident again that there is plenty of demand for buses on Christmas Day, wouldn't a watered down version of the nightbus network be a good starting point? see lots of people walking yesterday along bus routes in places you dont usually see many people walking so i agree i think a reduced service in needed.
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Post by sid on Dec 26, 2015 12:44:14 GMT
It seems evident again that there is plenty of demand for buses on Christmas Day, wouldn't a watered down version of the nightbus network be a good starting point? see lots of people walking yesterday along bus routes in places you dont usually see many people walking so i agree i think a reduced service in needed. Yes I've often seen family groups laden with presents who are on a mission to somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 21:36:37 GMT
It's time this nonsense is put to rest. A bus service runs on the ISLE OF WIGHT on Christmas Day, so why not London ?. It's time TfL took their heads out of their arses and get this put right for 2016.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 30, 2015 21:59:18 GMT
It's time this nonsense is put to rest. A bus service runs on the ISLE OF WIGHT on Christmas Day, so why not London ?. It's time TfL took their heads out of their arses and get this put right for 2016. Time for people to get asking all the Mayoral Candidates for their views / plans on this topic. I'd be astonished if any of them had given it a second's thought but you never know. Only yesterday George Galloway was promising to reopen ticket offices, put guards on trains and reintroduce conductors on buses - to collect fares.
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Post by thesquirrels on Dec 30, 2015 22:29:59 GMT
It's time this nonsense is put to rest. A bus service runs on the ISLE OF WIGHT on Christmas Day, so why not London ?. It's time TfL took their heads out of their arses and get this put right for 2016. I don't think this comparison is entirely fair - the decision by Southern Vectis to run a Christmas Day service was a managerial one at a local level in response to a clear demand. It's a small and easy network to provide and operate, only needs a handful of drivers and perhaps a couple of back office staff, and special higher fares are charged. I'm sure it was on the former (and very good) bus blog centred on Bournemouth (name escapes me now) that it was stated the Christmas Day services run on the IoW broke even in its trial year, hence the continued provision - I think this is the third or fourth year now. As far as I'm aware the rest of the Go-Ahead group companies in the South* haven't touched the concept with a barge pole. It did plenty for the sector's image and scored a lot of goodwill points, and continues to do so. It was a sensible commercial decision. The problem with London is that you can't do micro-level decisions like that. It would be lovely if Centrewest (as was) had decided to run the 207/607 and a handful of the E/U routes round Ealing and Uxbridge on Xmas day, the 105 into the Airport, etc, taking a commercial risk with special fares, but in the current TfL climate you would never see anything like that get the green light in a million years. It's all (at least in area terms) or nothing and the leap is a much bigger one. And with standard fares the network would probably lose more money than on a normal day, unless staff costs were somehow kept down (find me bus drivers who want to work for time and a half or less on xmas day and maybe we can get somewhere). * The one exceptionI can think of being Metrobus at Gatwick with the fastway 20.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 22:45:14 GMT
Reading this months LBN it gives a interesting insight to the Boxing Day Specials that used to run until the 1990s.
I wonder if a network of services could be designed - Could run fairly long routes because traffic will be much lighter - a few ideas for east London :
Romford - Oxford Circus / Marble Arch maybe onwards further west? Notting Hill? Canning Town - Walthamstow then towards Tottenham Beckton - Stratford - Hackney Via Olympic Park
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Post by John tuthill on Dec 30, 2015 22:50:23 GMT
It's time this nonsense is put to rest. A bus service runs on the ISLE OF WIGHT on Christmas Day, so why not London ?. It's time TfL took their heads out of their arses and get this put right for 2016. Time for people to get asking all the Mayoral Candidates for their views / plans on this topic. I'd be astonished if any of them had given it a second's thought but you never know. Only yesterday George Galloway was promising to reopen ticket offices, put guards on trains and reintroduce conductors on buses - to collect fares. No doubt issuing tickets from a Gibson, and taking pre decimal money?
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