Christmas Day Bus Services

[sid]

Jan 2, 2016 21:29:14 GMT thesquirrels said:

Jan 1, 2016 11:51:46 GMT bengady3 said:

If it was me I would either keep it as it is or

On Christmas Day routes  25,55,38,14,47,436,63,86,58,89,53,12,185,176,2,3,18,220,183,65,33,85,159,155,57,249,280,264,75,205,238,123,37,119,295,49,337,5,113,13,221,76,243,498,152,77,6,108,295,74,468,171,136,363,64 there are more routes I haven't added

Here's my 'back of a cigarette packet' take on what I would run on Christmas Day. This departs from the de facto Night Bus idea as I think the demand patterns would extend to certain day routes in areas with higher demand, and a big combination of day/night routes run in tandem is likely to be too confusing, though a few routes have been stapled together to enable travel into Central London for interchange purposes. Most routes would run on a half-hourly basis as a trial. I've concentrated on suburbs, routes linking into hospitals, and areas with lower than average christian/observant populations or less affluent areas where Christmas day travel for any general reason is more likely to be more appealing than booking a cab, plus routes serving hospitals.

I'd go with 2 to CP via 432, 3, 5, 6, 8, 10, 11 to Shepherds Bush via Hammersmith, 12, 13 to North Finchley, 14/85 combined, 15/115 as one via Poplar High Street, 16 to Edgware via 32, 18 (x15 Baker Street to Wembley, then x30 onto Harrow Weald via rte 182), 19, 21/321 combined, 22, 23, 24, 25 to Romford via 86 (x15 to Ilford), 27, 28, 29/329 combined (x15 to Wood Green), 31, 33, 34, 35, 36/436 combined, 37/337 combined, 38 to Walthamstow via 48, 41, 43, 45, 47 extended via 208 south of Bellingham to Orpington, 48, 49, 51, 52, 53/453 combined, 55 to Loughton via the 20, 57, 58, 59 to Croydon via 250, 61, 63/363 combined, 64/264 combined, 65/71 combined, 68/168/468 combined and extended to Old Coulsdon via the 60, 69/97 combined, 70, 72, 73 to Northumberland Park via 476, 74/430 combined, 75, 79, 81, 83, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93 with hourly extensions to Epsom General, 94, 95, 96 Woolwich - Dartford, 98, 101, 102, 104, 105, 108, 109/159 combined, 111, 113, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 128, 133 to Tooting, 134, 136, 137/417 combined, 139, 140, 141, 142, 144, 145, 147, 148, 149 extended to Waltham Cross via 279, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 161, 164, 165, 169, 170, 171, 173, 174, 176 to Thornton Heath via 197 and 198, 177, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 186, 187/487 combined, 188, 192, 195, 196, 202, 203, 204, 205, 207 to Uxbridge (x15 to Hayes), 210, 212, 213, 214, 220, 221, 222, 224, 226, 229 to Bromley via 269, 235, 236, 237, 238, 241, 243, 245, 248 to Queens Hospital, 249/319 hybrid, 253/254 combined (x15), 257, 259, 260/460 combined, 262, 263 (Northern Line), 265 extended to Hammersmith via 72, 266, 270, 274, 276, 277, 280, 281, 282, 284, 285, 294, 295, 296 biurificated via KGH, 297, 300, 302, 308, 309, 316, 325, 328, 341, 343, 344, 345, 358, 364, 365, 366, 368, 376, 380, 381, 390, 391, 407, 410, 422, 423, 450, 466 extended into New Addington, 469, 472, 473, 474, 482, 490, A10, B16, C1, D3, D7, E1, E3, E7, E8, EL1/2, H9/10, H12, H18/H19, H25, K2, P4, U1, U4, W3, W7, W15, X26.

The N9 would also run throughout the day, every 20 minutes.

There are still holes with this proposed network, but this would make a good testbed. I've probably missed one or two important links though.

Some interesting ideas although you've been rather more generous than I would be. I think I'd run the 36/436 combo all the way to Grove Park so no 136. The 21/321 I'd extend to Wood Green so no need for the 141. I'd agree with extending the 176 to Croydon (on a separate issue I think it should do that at night anyway) but I think the 109/159 and 68/468 should suffice for Thornton Heath. I agree with the 64/264 but I wouldn't run the 466 as well and there's several other routes that you've suggested that I wouldn't run. I did come up with a few ideas, I'll try and find the cigarette box I scribbled them down on.

[vjaska]

I'll do one for Brixton and the odd surrounding route as this looks fun lol:

The 2 would run from Marylebone to Crystal Palace every 30 minutes
The 3 would run as it does but every hour (can't see many using it enough for a 30 minute frequency)
The 37 would run from Richmond to Peckham - every hour between Richmond & Putney, every 30 minutes across the rest of the route
The 45 would run as it does but every hour (something has to serve Kings from Brixton)
The 68 would run from Euston to South Croydon every 30 minutes
The 109 would run from Brixton to Purley - every 30 minutes between Brixton & Croydon, every hour across the rest of the route
The 133 would run from Tooting Broadway to Liverpool Street every hour
The 137 would run from Oxford Circus to Crystal Palace every 30 minutes
The 159 would run from Thornton Heath to Marble Arch every hour
The 345 would run from Peckham to South Kensington every hour
The P4 would run from Brixton to Lewisham every 90 minutes (probably a bit harsh but open to be changed)

This was just done off the top of my head plus is my opinion so it's far from perfect

[ilovelondonbuses]

Personally, I would not like any bus services on Christmas Day. Transport workers especially the London bus workers work d*mn hard all year to provide and maintain a good level of service on all days of the year. One day out of the year where everyone can relax with their families and friends should be guaranteed.

[ibus246]

Jan 3, 2016 0:30:03 GMT vjaska said:

I'll do one for Brixton and the odd surrounding route as this looks fun lol:

The 2 would run from Marylebone to Crystal Palace every 30 minutes
The 3 would run as it does but every hour (can't see many using it enough for a 30 minute frequency)
The 37 would run from Richmond to Peckham - every hour between Richmond & Putney, every 30 minutes across the rest of the route
The 45 would run as it does but every hour (something has to serve Kings from Brixton)
The 68 would run from Euston to South Croydon every 30 minutes
The 109 would run from Brixton to Purley - every 30 minutes between Brixton & Croydon, every hour across the rest of the route
The 133 would run from Tooting Broadway to Liverpool Street every hour
The 137 would run from Oxford Circus to Crystal Palace every 30 minutes
The 159 would run from Thornton Heath to Marble Arch every hour
The 345 would run from Peckham to South Kensington every hour
The P4 would run from Brixton to Lewisham every 90 minutes (probably a bit harsh but open to be changed)

This was just done off the top of my head plus is my opinion so it's far from perfect

Out of interest why has something *got* to serve KX from Brixton?

[sid]

Jan 3, 2016 2:00:41 GMT ilovelondonbuses said:

Personally, I would not like any bus services on Christmas Day. Transport workers especially the London bus workers work d*mn hard all year to provide and maintain a good level of service on all days of the year. One day out of the year where everyone can relax with their families and friends should be guaranteed.

And so do NHS staff, Environment Agency staff etc. but they can't just shut up shop on Christmas Day

[paulsw2]

Jan 3, 2016 2:48:22 GMT ibus246 said:

Jan 3, 2016 0:30:03 GMT vjaska said:

I'll do one for Brixton and the odd surrounding route as this looks fun lol:

The 2 would run from Marylebone to Crystal Palace every 30 minutes
The 3 would run as it does but every hour (can't see many using it enough for a 30 minute frequency)
The 37 would run from Richmond to Peckham - every hour between Richmond & Putney, every 30 minutes across the rest of the route
The 45 would run as it does but every hour (something has to serve Kings from Brixton)
The 68 would run from Euston to South Croydon every 30 minutes
The 109 would run from Brixton to Purley - every 30 minutes between Brixton & Croydon, every hour across the rest of the route
The 133 would run from Tooting Broadway to Liverpool Street every hour
The 137 would run from Oxford Circus to Crystal Palace every 30 minutes
The 159 would run from Thornton Heath to Marble Arch every hour
The 345 would run from Peckham to South Kensington every hour
The P4 would run from Brixton to Lewisham every 90 minutes (probably a bit harsh but open to be changed)

This was just done off the top of my head plus is my opinion so it's far from perfect

Out of interest why has something *got* to serve KX from Brixton?

Vjaska was referring to Kings Hospital near Denmark Hill Stn I believe

[thesquirrels]

Jan 3, 2016 0:30:03 GMT vjaska said:

I'll do one for Brixton and the odd surrounding route as this looks fun lol:

The 2 would run from Marylebone to Crystal Palace every 30 minutes
The 3 would run as it does but every hour (can't see many using it enough for a 30 minute frequency)
The 37 would run from Richmond to Peckham - every hour between Richmond & Putney, every 30 minutes across the rest of the route
The 45 would run as it does but every hour (something has to serve Kings from Brixton)
The 68 would run from Euston to South Croydon every 30 minutes
The 109 would run from Brixton to Purley - every 30 minutes between Brixton & Croydon, every hour across the rest of the route
The 133 would run from Tooting Broadway to Liverpool Street every hour
The 137 would run from Oxford Circus to Crystal Palace every 30 minutes
The 159 would run from Thornton Heath to Marble Arch every hour
The 345 would run from Peckham to South Kensington every hour
The P4 would run from Brixton to Lewisham every 90 minutes (probably a bit harsh but open to be changed)

This was just done off the top of my head plus is my opinion so it's far from perfect

This micro-level proposal looks more realistic, I'm minded to give Haringey's network a go..

29: every 30 minutes between Trafalgar Square and Enfield Town with a 15 minute service between Camden and Wood Green
41: every 30 minutes
43: every 30 minutes
67: no service
73: every 30 minutes. Extended to Northumberland Park Station via route 476
76: two-bus service, every 60 minutes
91: every 30 minutes
102: two-bus service, every 60 minutes
121: every 30 minutes, 60 evenings
123: every 30 minutes, 60 evenings
134: every 30 minutes
141: every 30 minutes
143: no service
144: every 30 minutes, 60 evenings
149: every 30 minutes, extended to Ponders End via 349
184: two-bus service, every 60 minutes
192: two-bus service, every 60 minutes
210: two-bus service, every 60 minutes
214: every 30 minutes
217: no service
221: every 60 minutes with additional buses daytime to North Finchley
230: no service
231: no service
232: no service
234: no service
243: every 30 minutes. Co-ordinated with 149 to run every 15 minutes Bruce Grove - Old Street
253 and 254: combined as a single route, every 20 minutes
259: no service
263: every 60 minutes, extended to Potters Bar Bus Garage via double run of Wood Street then Hadley Highstone.
271: no service
279: every 30 minutes, route as N279. Co-ordinated with route 149 to run every 15 minutes Ponders End - Seven Sisters
299: no service
318: no service
329: replaced by route 29
341: every 30 minutes, 60 evenings
349: see route 149
444: no service
476: replaced by route 73 extended journeys
W3: two-bus service, every 60 minutes
W4: no service
W5: no service
W7: one bus service, every 45 minutes

[ilovelondonbuses]

Jan 3, 2016 7:55:30 GMT sid said:

Jan 3, 2016 2:00:41 GMT ilovelondonbuses said:

Personally, I would not like any bus services on Christmas Day. Transport workers especially the London bus workers work d*mn hard all year to provide and maintain a good level of service on all days of the year. One day out of the year where everyone can relax with their families and friends should be guaranteed.

And so do NHS staff, Environment Agency staff etc. but they can't just shut up shop on Christmas Day

Both are emergency services which have to arise to any event and are needed all time. Transport services are not even though they are obviously a necessity for a city like London there are other modes of transport available. I took my bike out on Christmas day with some mates into Central London. I would not dare do that in normal London traffic.

[vjaska]

Jan 3, 2016 9:50:22 GMT paulsw2 said:

Jan 3, 2016 2:48:22 GMT ibus246 said:

Out of interest why has something *got* to serve KX from Brixton?

Vjaska was referring to Kings Hospital near Denmark Hill Stn I believe

Indeed, I was referring to King's Hospital - just a habit of using the shortened version lol.

[sid]

All routes on a x30min headway.

The following without changes N3,6,12,N16,N18,N22,23,24,N26,27,N28,N29,30,35,38,41,43,57,N63,69,N73,88,N89,N91,94,102,105,108,N113,119,N133,134,N137,140,148,149,N171,177,188,205,214,220,242,243,N253,266,279,343,344,365,381,390,474 and EL1

The following with amendments

2 Extended to Crystal Palace

N7 Extended via 282/114 to Ruislip

N8 Extended via 247 to Romford

N9 Double run to serve W Mid Hospital

N11 Extended via E1 to Greenford

N14 Extended via 85 to Kingston

N15 Extended via 248 to Upminster

19 Extended via 319 to Streatham Hill

21 Extend from Newington Green via 141 to Wood Green and from Lewisham via 321 to Footscray with a double run to QM Hospital Sidcup

25 Extended via N86 to Harold Hill

36 Extended via N136 to Chislehurst and via 160 to QM Hospital

37 Extended via 337 to Richmond

N44 Extended via S1 to Banstead

47 Extended via 208/261 to PRU Hospital

51 Extended via 61 to Locks Bottom and PRU Hospital

52 Extended via 302 to Mill Hill and 186 to Edgware

53 Extended via 453 to Oxford Circus and from PD via 422 to Bexleyheath

N55 Extended via 20 to Debden

65 Extended via 71 to Chessington

68 Extended via 168 to Hampstead Heath and via 468 to South Croydon and on via 60 to Old Coulsdon

72 Extended to Central Mid Hospital

74 Extended via 139 to West Hampstead and via 93 to North Cheam

87 Extended via 156 to Wimbledon

N98 Extended via 142 to Edgware

155 Extended to Sutton

159 Extended via 109 to Croydon

176 Extended via 197 to Croydon

207 Extended via 427 to Uxbridge

222 Extended via H37 to Richmond with double run to W.Mid Hospital obviously with single deckers
277 Extended via D7 to Poplar

726 as per the X26 but serving all stops

[ibus246]

Jan 3, 2016 9:50:22 GMT paulsw2 said:

Jan 3, 2016 2:48:22 GMT ibus246 said:

Out of interest why has something *got* to serve KX from Brixton?

Vjaska was referring to Kings Hospital near Denmark Hill Stn I believe

Ooo I see - Not KX then.

[ibus246]

Jan 3, 2016 13:49:04 GMT sid said:

All routes on a x30min headway.

The following without changes N3,6,12,N16,N18,N22,23,24,N26,27,N28,N29,30,35,38,41,43,57,N63,69,N73,88,N89,N91,94,102,105,108,N113,119,N133,134,N137,140,148,149,N171,177,188,205,214,220,242,243,N253,266,279,343,344,365,381,390,474 and EL1

The following with amendments

2 Extended to Crystal Palace

N7 Extended via 282/114 to Ruislip

N8 Extended via 247 to Romford

N9 Double run to serve W Mid Hospital

N11 Extended via E1 to Greenford

N14 Extended via 85 to Kingston

N15 Extended via 248 to Upminster

19 Extended via 319 to Streatham Hill

21 Extend from Newington Green via 141 to Wood Green and from Lewisham via 321 to Footscray with a double run to QM Hospital Sidcup

25 Extended via N86 to Harold Hill

36 Extended via N136 to Chislehurst and via 160 to QM Hospital

37 Extended via 337 to Richmond

N44 Extended via S1 to Banstead

47 Extended via 208/261 to PRU Hospital

51 Extended via 61 to Locks Bottom and PRU Hospital

52 Extended via 302 to Mill Hill and 186 to Edgware

53 Extended via 453 to Oxford Circus and from PD via 422 to Bexleyheath

N55 Extended via 20 to Debden

65 Extended via 71 to Chessington

68 Extended via 168 to Hampstead Heath and via 468 to South Croydon and on via 60 to Old Coulsdon

72 Extended to Central Mid Hospital

74 Extended via 139 to West Hampstead and via 93 to North Cheam

87 Extended via 156 to Wimbledon

N98 Extended via 142 to Edgware

155 Extended to Sutton

159 Extended via 109 to Croydon

176 Extended via 197 to Croydon

207 Extended via 427 to Uxbridge

222 Extended via H37 to Richmond with double run to W.Mid Hospital obviously with single deckers
277 Extended via D7 to Poplar

726 as per the X26 but serving all stops

Why would the 726 need to serve every stop on the line of route? Are you suggesting renumbering the X26 for the one day only?

[sid]

Jan 3, 2016 14:19:35 GMT ibus246 said:

Jan 3, 2016 13:49:04 GMT sid said:

All routes on a x30min headway.

The following without changes N3,6,12,N16,N18,N22,23,24,N26,27,N28,N29,30,35,38,41,43,57,N63,69,N73,88,N89,N91,94,102,105,108,N113,119,N133,134,N137,140,148,149,N171,177,188,205,214,220,242,243,N253,266,279,343,344,365,381,390,474 and EL1

The following with amendments

2 Extended to Crystal Palace

N7 Extended via 282/114 to Ruislip

N8 Extended via 247 to Romford

N9 Double run to serve W Mid Hospital

N11 Extended via E1 to Greenford

N14 Extended via 85 to Kingston

N15 Extended via 248 to Upminster

19 Extended via 319 to Streatham Hill

21 Extend from Newington Green via 141 to Wood Green and from Lewisham via 321 to Footscray with a double run to QM Hospital Sidcup

25 Extended via N86 to Harold Hill

36 Extended via N136 to Chislehurst and via 160 to QM Hospital

37 Extended via 337 to Richmond

N44 Extended via S1 to Banstead

47 Extended via 208/261 to PRU Hospital

51 Extended via 61 to Locks Bottom and PRU Hospital

52 Extended via 302 to Mill Hill and 186 to Edgware

53 Extended via 453 to Oxford Circus and from PD via 422 to Bexleyheath

N55 Extended via 20 to Debden

65 Extended via 71 to Chessington

68 Extended via 168 to Hampstead Heath and via 468 to South Croydon and on via 60 to Old Coulsdon

72 Extended to Central Mid Hospital

74 Extended via 139 to West Hampstead and via 93 to North Cheam

87 Extended via 156 to Wimbledon

N98 Extended via 142 to Edgware

155 Extended to Sutton

159 Extended via 109 to Croydon

176 Extended via 197 to Croydon

207 Extended via 427 to Uxbridge

222 Extended via H37 to Richmond with double run to W.Mid Hospital obviously with single deckers
277 Extended via D7 to Poplar

726 as per the X26 but serving all stops

Why would the 726 need to serve every stop on the line of route? Are you suggesting renumbering the X26 for the one day only?

The alternative is three separate routes, 407,213 and 285.

[Ted Barclay]

While it might seem a great idea to combine routes, how would passengers and/or drivers know where the bus would stop?

I remember when the 1 had a Boxing Day extension to Bromley Garage, people didn't know which stop to wait at in Bromley High Street. I did witness some people miss the bus because they were waiting at the 'logical' stop i.e. the one towards Lewisham. A driver decided to stop at the other one - and didn't wait for them to run up the road. So they had 30 minutes to wait - still with the uncertainty of knowing where the next one would stop.

There was a one-day Boxing Day '211' route in the Orpington area - again nothing on any stops.

Probably best to keep it simple - it you really want people to use buses on Christmas Day better not to confuse them.

Ted B

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2016 14:41:06 GMT Ted Barclay said:

While it might seem a great idea to combine routes, how would passengers and/or drivers know where the bus would stop?

I remember when the 1 had a Boxing Day extension to Bromley Garage, people didn't know which stop to wait at in Bromley High Street. I did witness some people miss the bus because they were waiting at the 'logical' stop i.e. the one towards Lewisham. A driver decided to stop at the other one - and didn't wait for them to run up the road. So they had 30 minutes to wait - still with the uncertainty of knowing where the next one would stop.

There was a one-day Boxing Day '211' route in the Orpington area - again nothing on any stops.

Probably best to keep it simple - it you really want people to use buses on Christmas Day better not to confuse them.

Ted B

How did passengers cope in the 90s when routes had extensions on Boxing Day. Must have had a melt down when a yellow bus turned up instead of a red one for example on the 277 or 22b.