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Route 402
Feb 22, 2017 22:00:21 GMT
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 22, 2017 22:00:21 GMT
Tfl did eventually take on the 375 routeing on a temp contract before properly tendering the route afterwards so maybe step in with maybe a route to Knockholt Pound from Bromley North. This could assist with heavy loading on the 358 down to Farnborough. If TFL can't use the 402 I think something that includes the '47' number such as 447 may be chosen for historical reasons like with the 430. Or 431 could be used again as this historically operated in the area again like the 470 in Sutton/Epsom.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 22, 2017 22:22:47 GMT
Tfl did eventually take on the 375 routeing on a temp contract before properly tendering the route afterwards so maybe step in with maybe a route to Knockholt Pound from Bromley North. This could assist with heavy loading on the 358 down to Farnborough. If TFL can't use the 402 I think something that includes the '47' number such as 447 may be chosen for historical reasons like with the 430. Or 431 could be used again as this historically operated in the area again like the 470 in Sutton/Epsom. The 375 is a bad example. This route should not exist according to TfL's business case criteria. It has only persisted because Mr Rosindell, the Romford MP with the union jack wearing Bulldog (I kid you not), shouted and moaned at Boris and being in the same party Boris told TfL to provide a service. TfL have not yet found an opporunity to kill it off or scale it back to peak time trips only but I suspect they'd love to get rid of it. I can't quite see Jo Johnson (yes Bozza's Bruv), MP for Orpington, having the same influence with Mayor Khan.
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Post by lonmark on Feb 22, 2017 22:33:57 GMT
I look up at Traveline site and see that Arriva Plans for Route 402 become run every 20 minutes from Dunton Green to Tunbridge Wells on Monday to Saturday with little more extra buses until about 8pm and Which leave normal London aboard of Route 402 to carry on as the normal on hours timetable but leave seven minutes early from Tunbridge Wells to go via Sevenoaks Weald while other buses toward Dunton Green will not go via Sevenoaks Weald.
However Route 402 will get bus every hour between Sevenoaks and Tunbridge Wells from 9.30am ish to 8pm ish on Sunday service.
forget to say it plan to start from 2nd April
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 22, 2017 22:37:52 GMT
Surely thou as the 375 serves parts of London then TFL should be responsible to provide a service.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 23, 2017 0:13:09 GMT
Surely thou as the 375 serves parts of London then TFL should be responsible to provide a service. Prima facie that is right. However there are loads of places in Greater London, if you look closely, that do not have TfL services within anything like easy reach. There are also a great many "logical" links that do not have services. There is probably some small justification for a couple of peak return trips to cover genuine demand on the 375 for school and employment journeys. Even at a 90 minute headway the area north of Chase Cross is quite generously provided for. I know for a fact that the 375 is a political service that would not otherwise be provided at the level that it is. It only carries 60k pass jnys a year. The next nearest services in terms of patronage are much less generously provided for - normally a few off peak trips and that's it (347, 389/99, 385, W10). The only exception, getting slightly back on topic, is the R5/10 which don't carry a lot of people but run for longer hours albeit at a low frequency.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 5:17:07 GMT
The ironic thing is we have Mayor Khan wanting to run rail services into Kent , but not buses, why ?
People that do use buses in the counties surrounding London only generally do so because they can't afford cars , or are young, or elderly.
Knockholt Station is actually just within the confines of Bromley borough.
I'd imagine Go Coach Hire might be the firm speculated to be interested in providing a replacement , let's hope it's not just schooldays.
I don't blame Arriva at all. I'm actually pleased that Dunton Green would get a better service if it runs every 20 mins.
Although it will be a shame Sevenoaks will be cut off from another link. It's already somewhat isolated on the bus network in that existing routes are quite localised with very low frequencies and on Sundays currently only has one two hourly service.
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Post by Dillon95 on Feb 23, 2017 10:24:03 GMT
I can't say I'm surprised about this, the Bromley section is almost always empty. Other than a few pensioners that have Freedom Passes, most people looking to get from Bromley to Farnborough or Green Street Green use the 358. As for Bromley to Sevenoaks it is much quicker to get the train.
I can also see Arriva cutting the Swanley to Orpington section of the 477. They will probably run it from Bluewater to Crockenhill. This is a shame as Swanley's bus links to anywhere other than Sidcup or Dartford are already poor. They could extend the R6 from St Mary Cray to Swanley but I doubt they will.
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Post by jay38a on Feb 23, 2017 10:42:18 GMT
I can't say I'm surprised about this, the Bromley section is almost always empty. Other than a few pensioners that have Freedom Passes, most people looking to get from Bromley to Farnborough or Green Street Green use the 358. As for Bromley to Sevenoaks it is much quicker to get the train. I can also see Arriva cutting the Swanley to Orpington section of the 477. They will probably run it from Bluewater to Crockenhill. This is a shame as Swanley's bus links to anywhere other than Sidcup or Dartford are already poor. They could extend the R6 from St Mary Cray to Swanley but I doubt they will. Only issue with the R6 is links would be cut between St Mary Cray High Street and St Mary Cray Station and even though only a very short distance lots of people do use it.
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Post by jay38a on Feb 23, 2017 10:53:11 GMT
Arriva seem to like to say theres no planned withdrawal of the Bromley section of the 402 as i messaged them on facebook last night and got this reply:
"there are changes planned for the 402 but it is not being withdrawn. It will run hourly from Monday to Saturday but to revised times and via Weald Village rather than River Hill. There will also be buses every 20 minutes between TW and Ryewood Monday to Saturday. Lastly there will be a new Sunday Service running hourly between TW and Sevenoaks bus station"
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Route 402
Feb 23, 2017 11:26:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by vjaska on Feb 23, 2017 11:26:25 GMT
Arriva seem to like to say theres no planned withdrawal of the Bromley section of the 402 as i messaged them on facebook last night and got this reply: "there are changes planned for the 402 but it is not being withdrawn. It will run hourly from Monday to Saturday but to revised times and via Weald Village rather than River Hill. There will also be buses every 20 minutes between TW and Ryewood Monday to Saturday. Lastly there will be a new Sunday Service running hourly between TW and Sevenoaks bus station" So maybe some crossed wires particularly in reference to the new Sunday service not running further north than Sevenoaks?
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Route 402
Feb 23, 2017 11:56:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by sid on Feb 23, 2017 11:56:56 GMT
I'm not at all suprised to read this, even at peak times the Bromley section is poorly used although by contrast the 477 is quite busy in and out of Orpington. I would have thought extending the R5/10 to Sevenoaks would be the best solution?
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Post by jay38a on Feb 23, 2017 12:38:32 GMT
Arriva seem to like to say theres no planned withdrawal of the Bromley section of the 402 as i messaged them on facebook last night and got this reply: "there are changes planned for the 402 but it is not being withdrawn. It will run hourly from Monday to Saturday but to revised times and via Weald Village rather than River Hill. There will also be buses every 20 minutes between TW and Ryewood Monday to Saturday. Lastly there will be a new Sunday Service running hourly between TW and Sevenoaks bus station" So maybe some crossed wires particularly in reference to the new Sunday service not running further north than Sevenoaks? Until early 1998 (when DG closed) a Sunday service was provided on Route 402 between Bromley and Pratts Bottom funded by London Buses, there has been calls for this to return, in recent years.
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Route 402
Feb 23, 2017 21:45:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by Dillon95 on Feb 23, 2017 21:45:00 GMT
I can't say I'm surprised about this, the Bromley section is almost always empty. Other than a few pensioners that have Freedom Passes, most people looking to get from Bromley to Farnborough or Green Street Green use the 358. As for Bromley to Sevenoaks it is much quicker to get the train. I can also see Arriva cutting the Swanley to Orpington section of the 477. They will probably run it from Bluewater to Crockenhill. This is a shame as Swanley's bus links to anywhere other than Sidcup or Dartford are already poor. They could extend the R6 from St Mary Cray to Swanley but I doubt they will. Only issue with the R6 is links would be cut between St Mary Cray High Street and St Mary Cray Station and even though only a very short distance lots of people do use it. Yeah that's a good point that I over looked. Maybe an R12 could be introduced.
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Post by danorak on Feb 23, 2017 22:09:13 GMT
I'm not at all suprised to read this, even at peak times the Bromley section is poorly used although by contrast the 477 is quite busy in and out of Orpington. I would have thought extending the R5/10 to Sevenoaks would be the best solution? I sort of agree but you couldn't extend the R5/10 to Sevenoaks in their current form as they are circulars, admittedly with a short spur to Halstead. When there was the consultation about reducing the frequency of the R5/10 a few years ago, I was in favour of losing the Halstead section to try & retain the hourly frequency and also to make the 402 more sustainable. We're back to the question of what TfL should run in terms of out-county services. Beyond Pratt's Bottom, it's Kent - in fact didn't Knockholt get itself taken out of Greater London? There's not much of a case for retaining the London bit of the 402: the 358 covers Bromley to Green St Green and the Hopper allows onward journeys on the R5/10 to Pratt's Bottom, Knockholt Pound and Halstead. Outside London, there's trains from Knockholt to Dunton Green and Sevenoaks. If TfL feels the Sevenoaks section needs a service, then I think they do need to consider the R5/10 (possibly R7 too) at the same time and recast them rather than just offering a direct 'R12' replacement. I'd go further and do a 'Roundabout 2' on the rural Orpington services, bringing in smaller Ashford-style buses as a trial. As snoggle notes, this does not fit well with the recent Orpington tendering exercise.
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Post by Dillon95 on Feb 23, 2017 22:50:54 GMT
I'd eliminate the Halstead section of the R5/R10, and introduce a new route from Orpington to Sevenoaks. It would run to Green Street Green and then use the 402 route to Sevenoaks. I think Orpington would be a better option to link with Sevenoaks rather than Bromley as it is closer.
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