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Route 402
Feb 22, 2017 11:15:20 GMT
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Post by Paul on Feb 22, 2017 11:15:20 GMT
So over the past week or two the locals in Halstead and Knockholt have been asking about Route 402. From what I understand Arriva want to withdraw the route from Bromley although I've been told it would be withdrawn to Badgers Mount, Dunton Green or Sevenoaks. Apparently Arriva wanted to withdraw the route with immediate effect but TfL asked them to continue running until June. This morning, one of the locals asked one of our drivers if there was any truth in the rumour a 'new red bus' would run from Sevenoaks to Bromley. I've not heard that one but have heard of a possible R12 running from Bromley North to Polhill
Just wondered if anyone else had heard anything? I can't seem to find anything concrete
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Post by snoggle on Feb 22, 2017 11:43:59 GMT
So over the past week or two the locals in Halstead and Knockholt have been asking about Route 402. From what I understand Arriva want to withdraw the route from Bromley although I've been told it would be withdrawn to Badgers Mount, Dunton Green or Sevenoaks. Apparently Arriva wanted to withdraw the route with immediate effect but TfL asked them to continue running until June. This morning, one of the locals asked one of our drivers if there was any truth in the rumour a 'new red bus' would run from Sevenoaks to Bromley. I've not heard that one but have heard of a possible R12 running from Bromley North to Polhill Just wondered if anyone else had heard anything? I can't seem to find anything concrete I've not heard anything but I'm not that surprised. The continued death and decline of cross boundary services is one of the main failings of the divergent policy regimes between London and outside. If there is some sort of replacement I doubt it will be as frequent as the 402 is. I can't see TfL being terribly happy about having to fund another high subsidy / low revenue service in the London Borough of Bromley. |
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Route 402
Feb 22, 2017 11:56:45 GMT
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sid likes this
Post by Paul on Feb 22, 2017 11:56:45 GMT
So over the past week or two the locals in Halstead and Knockholt have been asking about Route 402. From what I understand Arriva want to withdraw the route from Bromley although I've been told it would be withdrawn to Badgers Mount, Dunton Green or Sevenoaks. Apparently Arriva wanted to withdraw the route with immediate effect but TfL asked them to continue running until June. This morning, one of the locals asked one of our drivers if there was any truth in the rumour a 'new red bus' would run from Sevenoaks to Bromley. I've not heard that one but have heard of a possible R12 running from Bromley North to Polhill Just wondered if anyone else had heard anything? I can't seem to find anything concrete I've not heard anything but I'm not that surprised. The continued death and decline of cross boundary services is one of the main failings of the divergent policy regimes between London and outside. If there is some sort of replacement I doubt it will be as frequent as the 402 is. I can't see TfL being terribly happy about having to fund another high subsidy / low revenue service in the London Borough of Bromley. Exactly what I thought with regards TfL not wanting to find such a service. But if they did request a stay of execution on Arriva's withdrawal that does suggest they would look into a replacement. Like you say though, it's likely to be the cheapest possible option. Possibly even once every two hours; would only need one bus then |
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Post by jay38a on Feb 22, 2017 17:37:37 GMT
I've not heard anything but I'm not that surprised. The continued death and decline of cross boundary services is one of the main failings of the divergent policy regimes between London and outside. If there is some sort of replacement I doubt it will be as frequent as the 402 is. I can't see TfL being terribly happy about having to fund another high subsidy / low revenue service in the London Borough of Bromley. Exactly what I thought with regards TfL not wanting to find such a service. But if they did request a stay of execution on Arriva's withdrawal that does suggest they would look into a replacement. Like you say though, it's likely to be the cheapest possible option. Possibly even once every two hours; would only need one bus then One thing I've thought is change the R5/R10, so it could be hourly from Orpington to Sevenoaks (alternating 2 hourly via Pratts Bottom or Cudham), should be possible with 2 buses. Not sure they will be happy for a further cut on the R5/R10 but could be a cheap option. |
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Route 402
Feb 22, 2017 17:52:26 GMT
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Post by Paul on Feb 22, 2017 17:52:26 GMT
Exactly what I thought with regards TfL not wanting to find such a service. But if they did request a stay of execution on Arriva's withdrawal that does suggest they would look into a replacement. Like you say though, it's likely to be the cheapest possible option. Possibly even once every two hours; would only need one bus then One thing I've thought is change the R5/R10, so it could be hourly from Orpington to Sevenoaks (alternating 2 hourly via Pratts Bottom or Cudham), should be possible with 2 buses. Not sure they will be happy for a further cut on the R5/R10 but could be a cheap option. Could be one solution but I just don't see TfL funding a service as far as Sevenoaks |
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Post by jay38a on Feb 22, 2017 18:05:22 GMT
One thing I've thought is change the R5/R10, so it could be hourly from Orpington to Sevenoaks (alternating 2 hourly via Pratts Bottom or Cudham), should be possible with 2 buses. Not sure they will be happy for a further cut on the R5/R10 but could be a cheap option. Could be one solution but I just don't see TfL funding a service as far as Sevenoaks Badgers Mount could easily be incorporated into the R7, depending on the stand at Chislehurst, would add an extra 5-7 mins onto the route. |
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Route 402
Feb 22, 2017 18:22:22 GMT
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Post by Paul on Feb 22, 2017 18:22:22 GMT
Could be one solution but I just don't see TfL funding a service as far as Sevenoaks Badgers Mount could easily be incorporated into the R7, depending on the stand at Chislehurst, would add an extra 5-7 mins onto the route. Extending anything southwards from Chelsfield Village is awkward because the village can only be efficiently served in one direction. It also doesn't link into Bromley which I think it should I think the cheapest, easiest solution is for TfL to take over the northern leg of the 402 and as snoggle hinted at, run it every couple of hours. I wouldn't even call it R12; there currently isn't a TfL 402 |
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Post by jay38a on Feb 22, 2017 18:43:11 GMT
Badgers Mount could easily be incorporated into the R7, depending on the stand at Chislehurst, would add an extra 5-7 mins onto the route. Extending anything southwards from Chelsfield Village is awkward because the village can only be efficiently served in one direction. It also doesn't link into Bromley which I think it should I think the cheapest, easiest solution is for TfL to take over the northern leg of the 402 and as snoggle hinted at, run it every couple of hours. I wouldn't even call it R12; there currently isn't a TfL 402 Chelsfeild Village has been served in both directions in previous years, ok the original R6 that only lasted 6 months but that served it both ways, as did the 477. With a 2 hourly frequency with 1 bus on a TfL 402 would only be able to reach Riverhead at the furthest as to Sevenoaks is just over an hour. |
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Route 402
Feb 22, 2017 18:50:09 GMT
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Post by Paul on Feb 22, 2017 18:50:09 GMT
Extending anything southwards from Chelsfield Village is awkward because the village can only be efficiently served in one direction. It also doesn't link into Bromley which I think it should I think the cheapest, easiest solution is for TfL to take over the northern leg of the 402 and as snoggle hinted at, run it every couple of hours. I wouldn't even call it R12; there currently isn't a TfL 402 Chelsfeild Village has been served in both directions in previous years, ok the original R6 that only lasted 6 months but that served it both ways, as did the 477. With a 2 hourly frequency with 1 bus on a TfL 402 would only be able to reach Riverhead at the furthest as to Sevenoaks is just over an hour. Like I said earlier, I can't see TfL funding a service all the way to Sevenoaks. I can't see a TfL 402 going any further than Knockholt Pound which does mean there will be a significant portion of the current route left unserved and since that part isn't TfL's concern I doubt they would care |
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Post by snoggle on Feb 22, 2017 18:57:30 GMT
Badgers Mount could easily be incorporated into the R7, depending on the stand at Chislehurst, would add an extra 5-7 mins onto the route. Extending anything southwards from Chelsfield Village is awkward because the village can only be efficiently served in one direction. It also doesn't link into Bromley which I think it should I think the cheapest, easiest solution is for TfL to take over the northern leg of the 402 and as snoggle hinted at, run it every couple of hours. I wouldn't even call it R12; there currently isn't a TfL 402 I imagine TfL are not a little grumpy about the timing of this. After all the retendering and consultation on Orpington area routes and now this emerges. I doubt very much that TfL will replace the 402 into Bromley and I certainly can't see them reaching Sevenoaks. People are going to lose a link into Kent and I don't see either KCC (already cash strapped) nor TfL preserving that link. If there is a replacement service it will be very limited in scope. It's a slight shame that the road network (A21) prevents the current R3 from looping down via Badgers Mount / Knockholt Stn and then returning to Chelsfield. It's also a bit of a shame there's no turning facility at Knockholt Station because otherwise you could extend the R5/R10 and loop it up to Knockholt Stn and then back down via Shoreham Lane / Old Stn Road. |
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Post by jay38a on Feb 22, 2017 20:45:14 GMT
Why am i expecting the 477 to follow suit soon too....
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Post by snoggle on Feb 22, 2017 20:48:02 GMT
Why am i expecting the 477 to follow suit soon too.... Yes that thought wandered through my mind earlier. |
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Post by jay38a on Feb 22, 2017 20:51:39 GMT
Why am i expecting the 477 to follow suit soon too.... Yes that thought wandered through my mind earlier. Not expecting TfL to replace the Swanley to Orpington section that would be the most likely section to go as now they will say with the hopper ticket anybody wanting to travel between Swanley and Orpington can do so by swapping at Foots Cray between the 51 and 233. |
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Post by lonmark on Feb 22, 2017 21:23:44 GMT
I found this message on Orpington Gossips on Facebook: someone say
Travelling on bus route 402 to Sevenoaks yesterday, heard the bus driver say to a passenger that the 402 will start/terminate at Dunton Green from July 15 2017. This was confirmed at Sevenoaks Terminus Information Office. NO MORE BROMLEY/GREEN STREET GREEN/HALSTEAD 402 BUSES TO SEVENOAKS/TONBRIDGE/TUNBRIDGE WELLS!!!!!!!
However one person say partner who driver work for Arriva say: This is true. My partner is a driver for kent. There are talks that another company may take over the route. Apparently they wasn't making money from that route. It was meant to have been 19th feb but tfl said it's too short notice.
So Look like Arriva decide to withdrawn the 402 as not making enough money for the service!
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Post by jay38a on Feb 22, 2017 21:35:48 GMT
I found this message on Orpington Gossips on Facebook: someone say Travelling on bus route 402 to Sevenoaks yesterday, heard the bus driver say to a passenger that the 402 will start/terminate at Dunton Green from July 15 2017. This was confirmed at Sevenoaks Terminus Information Office. NO MORE BROMLEY/GREEN STREET GREEN/HALSTEAD 402 BUSES TO SEVENOAKS/TONBRIDGE/TUNBRIDGE WELLS!!!!!!! However one person say partner who driver work for Arriva say: This is true. My partner is a driver for kent. There are talks that another company may take over the route. Apparently they wasn't making money from that route. It was meant to have been 19th feb but tfl said it's too short notice. So Look like Arriva decide to withdrawn the 402 as not making enough money for the service! They couldnt cancel a route straight away anyway. The Traffic Commisioner requires a 56 day notice, unless TfL have known for a while already. |
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