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Post by M1104 on May 6, 2023 8:52:26 GMT
To me the simple safety critical action would be to open all doors. We need an explanation why this did not happen. The train stopped 2 cars out of the station after several PEAs were operated, the driver was probably dealing with those, doors should not be opened in tunnels except under extreme circumstances That was the first thing that came to my mind as to why the overall doors remained closed. However I always 'assumed' each carriage had some sort of independant emergency control for staff to be able to open at least one door...somewhat like emergency buttons on the buses.
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Post by SILENCED on May 6, 2023 8:54:47 GMT
To me the simple safety critical action would be to open all doors. We need an explanation why this did not happen. The train stopped 2 cars out of the station after several PEAs were operated, the driver was probably dealing with those, doors should not be opened in tunnels except under extreme circumstances So your saying doors should not be opened when they are filling with smoke? If that is not an example of extreme circumstances what is? The actions of the public must have been visible to say "look this is an extreme circumstance". If this was not immediately aware to critical staff, then something is wrong with the process/procedure and LU is far from safe as the railmen would like us to believe. OK, a smoke filled train rolls into a station, and the only way passengers can escape is by other passengers smashing the train up. Where is the failing in your view?
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 6, 2023 9:22:30 GMT
However I always 'assumed' each carriage had some sort of independant emergency control for staff to be able to open at least one door...somewhat like emergency buttons on the buses. They is an outside staff-egress-device which will open one double-door on a car; it is not marked as an emergency device for passenger use. OK, a smoke filled train rolls into a station, and the only way passengers can escape is by other passengers smashing the train up. Where is the failing in your view? There was no smoke, as confirmed by LU and LFB. The train was departing, it had already opened all doors on the platform.
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Post by towerman on May 6, 2023 10:04:44 GMT
I assume these trains have outside door cocks,if so why didn’t they open doors via cocks on cars in platform and detain passengers that way?
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Post by joefrombow on May 6, 2023 10:08:26 GMT
However I always 'assumed' each carriage had some sort of independant emergency control for staff to be able to open at least one door...somewhat like emergency buttons on the buses. They is an outside staff-egress-device which will open one double-door on a car; it is not marked as an emergency device for passenger use. OK, a smoke filled train rolls into a station, and the only way passengers can escape is by other passengers smashing the train up. Where is the failing in your view? There was no smoke, as confirmed by LU and LFB. The train was departing, it had already opened all doors on the platform. Think it's time for tfl to invest in some half height platform edge doors/gates or something at the Clapham stations the platforms widths can't be much more than 8 foot could of been a very very serious incident and this just goes to show why you need more staff and at a station like that you definitely need a member or two on the platform at all times to give the go signal etc not relying on in cab CCTV for such a narrow platform must be very challenging during busy times .
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Post by vjaska on May 6, 2023 10:12:07 GMT
They is an outside staff-egress-device which will open one double-door on a car; it is not marked as an emergency device for passenger use. There was no smoke, as confirmed by LU and LFB. The train was departing, it had already opened all doors on the platform. Think it's time for tfl to invest in some half height platform edge doors/gates or something at the Clapham stations the platforms widths can't be much more than 8 foot could of been a very very serious incident and this just goes to show why you need more staff and at a station like that you definitely need a member or two on the platform at all times to give the go signal etc not relying on in cab CCTV for such a narrow platform must be very challenging during busy times . How would platform doors avert the issue that happened? Personally, the only way you solve those narrow platforms is by rebuilding both stations which they’ve explored previously but ruled out on cost
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Post by joefrombow on May 6, 2023 10:25:57 GMT
Think it's time for tfl to invest in some half height platform edge doors/gates or something at the Clapham stations the platforms widths can't be much more than 8 foot could of been a very very serious incident and this just goes to show why you need more staff and at a station like that you definitely need a member or two on the platform at all times to give the go signal etc not relying on in cab CCTV for such a narrow platform must be very challenging during busy times . How would platform doors avert the issue that happened? Personally, the only way you solve those narrow platforms is by rebuilding both stations which they’ve explored previously but ruled out on cost They wouldn't avert the issue , but a narrow station like that in this day and age is very dangerous however if this happened on a jubilee extension station they wouldn't of been able to get out the train , a staff member on the platform should be the bare minimum , I agree with rebuilding the platforms but the cost would be astronomical and as for the issue can issues like this be avoided ? Once panic sets in fight or flight makes people's decisions ? All NR trains and DLR trains I believe have a emergency door release for the public in an emergency would this have made a difference ?
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Post by SILENCED on May 6, 2023 11:25:57 GMT
However I always 'assumed' each carriage had some sort of independant emergency control for staff to be able to open at least one door...somewhat like emergency buttons on the buses. They is an outside staff-egress-device which will open one double-door on a car; it is not marked as an emergency device for passenger use. OK, a smoke filled train rolls into a station, and the only way passengers can escape is by other passengers smashing the train up. Where is the failing in your view? There was no smoke, as confirmed by LU and LFB. The train was departing, it had already opened all doors on the platform. So all the eye witnesses are liars as it does not fit the railwaymans view .... Where have I seen this before ... Oh yeah, the Gestapo railforums, where you are not allowed to criticise some dodgy rail policies. It says it was probably brake dust that was mistaken for smoke. If you believe it is smoke you are getting out of there. Tell me you would stay onboard a carriage you thought was on fire! It doesn't matter if there was no fire, it was a perceived danger of fire. Some seem to enjoy watching people in panic! Maybe that device needs to be clearly marked. Problem would have been easily resolved, but rail workers seem to think they are to god d*mn important to give Joe public access to such basic safety devices, if staff are not going to utilise such devices. So why did staff not press this button?
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Post by greenboy on May 6, 2023 11:54:49 GMT
I was on a Bakerloo Line train a few years ago in a similar situation, fortunately the train was fully in the platform and all the doors were open and whilst there was no panic people were certainly getting off and away from the train quickly, nobody was hanging about to debate whether it was smoke or dust.
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Post by ThinLizzy on May 6, 2023 17:10:03 GMT
They is an outside staff-egress-device which will open one double-door on a car; it is not marked as an emergency device for passenger use. There was no smoke, as confirmed by LU and LFB. The train was departing, it had already opened all doors on the platform. So all the eye witnesses are liars as it does not fit the railwaymans view .... Where have I seen this before ... Oh yeah, the Gestapo railforums, where you are not allowed to criticise some dodgy rail policies. It says it was probably brake dust that was mistaken for smoke. If you believe it is smoke you are getting out of there. Tell me you would stay onboard a carriage you thought was on fire! It doesn't matter if there was no fire, it was a perceived danger of fire. Some seem to enjoy watching people in panic! Maybe that device needs to be clearly marked. Problem would have been easily resolved, but rail workers seem to think they are to god d*mn important to give Joe public access to such basic safety devices, if staff are not going to utilise such devices. So why did staff not press this button? well this has escalated quickly. There are perfectly valid reasons for staff egress devices not to be labelled on the outside, however, I am just a rail worker with over 20 years experience. What would I know?
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Post by joefrombow on May 6, 2023 17:34:16 GMT
They is an outside staff-egress-device which will open one double-door on a car; it is not marked as an emergency device for passenger use. There was no smoke, as confirmed by LU and LFB. The train was departing, it had already opened all doors on the platform. So all the eye witnesses are liars as it does not fit the railwaymans view .... Where have I seen this before ... Oh yeah, the Gestapo railforums, where you are not allowed to criticise some dodgy rail policies. It says it was probably brake dust that was mistaken for smoke. If you believe it is smoke you are getting out of there. Tell me you would stay onboard a carriage you thought was on fire! It doesn't matter if there was no fire, it was a perceived danger of fire. Some seem to enjoy watching people in panic! Maybe that device needs to be clearly marked. Problem would have been easily resolved, but rail workers seem to think they are to god d*mn important to give Joe public access to such basic safety devices, if staff are not going to utilise such devices. So why did staff not press this button? From what I've read Staff weren't on the Platform and normally there are only 2 staff on the Station hence the need for someone on the Platform all the time specifically for that station given how narrow it was but to blame staff is nonsensical the staff don't decide how many of them are in any one place at any time .
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 6, 2023 19:47:34 GMT
The train stopped 2 cars out of the station after several PEAs were operated, the driver was probably dealing with those, doors should not be opened in tunnels except under extreme circumstances So your saying doors should not be opened when they are filling with smoke? If that is not an example of extreme circumstances what is? The actions of the public must have been visible to say "look this is an extreme circumstance". If this was not immediately aware to critical staff, then something is wrong with the process/procedure and LU is far from safe as the railmen would like us to believe. OK, a smoke filled train rolls into a station, and the only way passengers can escape is by other passengers smashing the train up. Where is the failing in your view? Maybe a National Rail type emergency door release interlock that allows the doors to be opened.
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Post by SILENCED on May 6, 2023 20:35:03 GMT
So all the eye witnesses are liars as it does not fit the railwaymans view .... Where have I seen this before ... Oh yeah, the Gestapo railforums, where you are not allowed to criticise some dodgy rail policies. It says it was probably brake dust that was mistaken for smoke. If you believe it is smoke you are getting out of there. Tell me you would stay onboard a carriage you thought was on fire! It doesn't matter if there was no fire, it was a perceived danger of fire. Some seem to enjoy watching people in panic! Maybe that device needs to be clearly marked. Problem would have been easily resolved, but rail workers seem to think they are to god d*mn important to give Joe public access to such basic safety devices, if staff are not going to utilise such devices. So why did staff not press this button? well this has escalated quickly. There are perfectly valid reasons for staff egress devices not to be labelled on the outside, however, I am just a rail worker with over 20 years experience. What would I know? There maybe valid reasons, but in the event of a real fire, I would like to know all safety options are available to everyone if at some stations it seems there are inadequate staff numbers. Do you need another disaster to wake up to the fact, just because there are reasons to keep it only to safety critical staff? We live in a safety conscious world everywhere except the railways, where safety it seems can be undertaken by a very select few, who may not be around in sufficient numbers when required. Why is passenger safety such a restrictive practice? Sorry, will say no more on this subject, but rail workers seem to want to promote danger on the network, and only a restricted few should be allowed the safety function. Hearing rail workers responses when there are issues, certainly makes me feel unsafer when travelling in the rail network, knowing lives are threaten because an invaluable safety feature is deemed deemed fit to be used for a selcct few rail staff only, to justify their self importance! I would like to hear these perfectly valid reasons. Educate me.
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Post by wirewiper on May 7, 2023 9:21:07 GMT
Kentish Town Underground will close from Monday 26th June for up to a year, to allow the escalators to be replaced. The current escalators were installed in 1997 and are now said to be the most unreliable on the Underground network. Breakdowns frequently cause last-minute station closures. The new escalators are to the same design as those installed at South Kensington and at Elizabeth Line stations, which will make sourcing of spare parts and repairs easier, They are designed to last at least 40 years before needing replacement. As well as the escalator work, LUL will use the closure to refurbish the station and platforms, including repainting, a deep clean and new flooring and tiling, and to remove a redundant ticket office and reposition the ticket barriers to allow more space for passengers. Thameslink services are not affected by the work and will continue to call at Kentish Town, although TfL is advising that trains at the station may be busier than usual. Alternatives are Tufnell Park, ten minutes walk away, or Camden Town by bus. www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/london-underground-to-close-kentish-town-tube-station-for-a-year-62315/
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Post by twobellstogo on May 7, 2023 18:07:57 GMT
However I always 'assumed' each carriage had some sort of independant emergency control for staff to be able to open at least one door...somewhat like emergency buttons on the buses. They is an outside staff-egress-device which will open one double-door on a car; it is not marked as an emergency device for passenger use. OK, a smoke filled train rolls into a station, and the only way passengers can escape is by other passengers smashing the train up. Where is the failing in your view? There was no smoke, as confirmed by LU and LFB. The train was departing, it had already opened all doors on the platform. If I was on that train, it would look like smoke to me. Doesn’t matter what it actually is, I’d want to be out of there as soon as possible.
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