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Post by rif153 on Jul 20, 2023 9:31:26 GMT
I never said you did! I said “I assume” I made the assumption that there wouldn’t be enough trains to cover the three terminals at the same frequency. Trains don’t all terminate at Heathrow or Uxbridge however. Some terminate early at Northfields and Rayners Lane, so it’s a bit like the northern end of the Central Line really terminus wise. The local lines down to Northfields have enough spare capacity to send more terminators down that way but I can imagine Ealing Broadway is easier as its a station turnaround rather than a depot move. Of course terminating somewhere like Rayners Lane involves sending trains a lot further out of the central section.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 20, 2023 9:44:06 GMT
Trains don’t all terminate at Heathrow or Uxbridge however. Some terminate early at Northfields and Rayners Lane, so it’s a bit like the northern end of the Central Line really terminus wise. The local lines down to Northfields have enough spare capacity to send more terminators down that way but I can imagine Ealing Broadway is easier as its a station turnaround rather than a depot move. Of course terminating somewhere like Rayners Lane involves sending trains a lot further out of the central section. Probably find a more even split between Heathrow (split to terminal 4 and 5), Rayners Lane and Ealing Broadway with maybe less Northfields trains. Heathrow can probably cope with a train or so less an hour now the Elizabeth line has probably taken some of the central London to Heathrow traffic.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 20, 2023 9:44:25 GMT
Trains don’t all terminate at Heathrow or Uxbridge however. Some terminate early at Northfields and Rayners Lane, so it’s a bit like the northern end of the Central Line really terminus wise. The local lines down to Northfields have enough spare capacity to send more terminators down that way but I can imagine Ealing Broadway is easier as its a station turnaround rather than a depot move. Of course terminating somewhere like Rayners Lane involves sending trains a lot further out of the central section. Not to mention it would require more trains
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Post by vjaska on Jul 20, 2023 11:43:54 GMT
TfL has released some more Elizabeth Line statistics, ahead of an Elizabeth Line Committee meeting next week. Although passenger numbers are not meeting pre-pandemic projections (the "business-as-usual" scenario), they are exceeding the most optimistic post-pandemic projections. Just over 150 million passenger journeys were made on the line in its first year of operation. The line is now averaging 3.5 million passenger journeys a week and the busiest week peaked at over 4.1 million. At these figures the line is expected to carry 170 million passenger journeys in its second year and could reach 200 million if post-pandemic recovery continues. Based on Oyster Card/contactless data, there has been a six-fold increase in journeys between Paddington and Tottenham Court Road and a four-fold increase in journeys between Stratford and Paddington. Some of the increase has come at the expense of Underground services; there has been a 40% drop in demand for the Central Line at Ealing Broadway and a 5% reduction in Bakerloo Line journeys between Paddington and Oxford Circus. However TfL believes that 30% of traffic is new, and consists mostly of journeys that would not have been made had the Elizabeth Line not existed. Bus-wise there has been in increase in passenger use on routes feeding into suburban Elizabeth Line stations, although this is partly offset by a decline in bus use around Zone 1 stations [the latter may not solely be down to the Elizabeth Line]. Early analysis is that the Elizabeth Line has had a bigger impact on how people travel than previous infrastucture changes, such as the Jubilee Line Extension, and it is believed this is due to the faster journeys and improved comfort level. This could be significant for future investment - if pound-for-pound a new main-line upgrade produces more benefit than a tube-style one, it is easier to argue for it. TfL is now commissioning Arup to evaluate objectively how the Elizabeth line has changed travel and the economy; initial findings are expected to be reported next Spring with a full report due in 2025. A second evaluation will explore the wider social, economic and environmental impact of the new railway. TfL will review the funding and financing of the Crossrail project to produce an objective and factual report. These reviews will serve not only to learn the lessons from the past, but to demonstrate concrete justification for future rail infrastructure projects. www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/elizabeth-line-passenger-numbers-beating-forecasts-2-64311/I very much doubt the improved comfort level with rock hard seats!!! Even a 40 year old car has better seats. The main advantage is the quick journeys, nothing else. Some journeys can actually be quicker, but is not down to long dwell times at stops. I reckon as much as 8 minutes can be trimmed off the journey between Shenfield and Paddington. Sorry but disagree that the 345’s have rock seats - now you could argue whether they are more comfortable than the outgoing 315’s they replaced in terms of seats but calling the seats rock hard feels like a bit of an exaggeration. Try riding Class 700’s long distance or even a refurbished Avanti West Coast unit to see what rock hard seats are
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 20, 2023 11:52:15 GMT
WH241 Just on your point regarding an equal number of trains at each terminus on the Piccadilly Line - technically with 36 trains per hour which is what the frequency is meant to reach at the absolute maximum, you can then delegate 12 trains per hour extra to Ealing Broadway, 12 trains per hour towards Rayners Lane & Uxbridge, and 12 trains per hour towards Northfields and onto Heathrow
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Post by rif153 on Jul 20, 2023 13:36:14 GMT
WH241 Just on your point regarding an equal number of trains at each terminus on the Piccadilly Line - technically with 36 trains per hour which is what the frequency is meant to reach at the absolute maximum, you can then delegate 12 trains per hour extra to Ealing Broadway, 12 trains per hour towards Rayners Lane & Uxbridge, and 12 trains per hour towards Northfields and onto Heathrow I suspect the Uxbridge branch will remain the 'ugly duckling' under the new service pattern, would be surprised if it got any more than 10tph. I would go for something like this assuming 36tph in total: 4tph Uxbridge 4tph Rayners Lane 8tph Ealing Broadway 8tph Heathrow T5 8tph Heathrow T4 4tph Northfields I think that's about fair, maybe a little bit generous to the Rayners Lane/Ealing Broadway side. Sadly we're set to have all day stopping at Turnham Green once the line is upgraded. The track layout at Chiswick Park doesn't facilitate Piccadilly line calls there unless they use the District Line tracks all the way from Hammersmith so there may be a question mark over the station's future.
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Post by VMH2537 on Jul 20, 2023 15:35:22 GMT
WH241 Just on your point regarding an equal number of trains at each terminus on the Piccadilly Line - technically with 36 trains per hour which is what the frequency is meant to reach at the absolute maximum, you can then delegate 12 trains per hour extra to Ealing Broadway, 12 trains per hour towards Rayners Lane & Uxbridge, and 12 trains per hour towards Northfields and onto Heathrow I suspect the Uxbridge branch will remain the 'ugly duckling' under the new service pattern, would be surprised if it got any more than 10tph. I would go for something like this assuming 36tph in total: 4tph Uxbridge 4tph Rayners Lane 8tph Ealing Broadway 8tph Heathrow T5 8tph Heathrow T4 4tph Northfields I think that's about fair, maybe a little bit generous to the Rayners Lane/Ealing Broadway side. Sadly we're set to have all day stopping at Turnham Green once the line is upgraded. The track layout at Chiswick Park doesn't facilitate Piccadilly line calls there unless they use the District Line tracks all the way from Hammersmith so there may be a question mark over the station's future. The Uxbridge branch is scheduled to run 12tph (5 minutes in the peaks/10 minutes to Uxbridge) and 6tph (10 minutes/20 to Uxbridge in the off- peaks) tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/wtt-61-piccadilly-22-may-2023.pdf
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 20, 2023 15:35:59 GMT
Is it confirmed that the District line won't be going to Ealing Broadway when the Piccadilly line is upgraded
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 20, 2023 15:37:57 GMT
I suspect the Uxbridge branch will remain the 'ugly duckling' under the new service pattern, would be surprised if it got any more than 10tph. I would go for something like this assuming 36tph in total: 4tph Uxbridge 4tph Rayners Lane 8tph Ealing Broadway 8tph Heathrow T5 8tph Heathrow T4 4tph Northfields I think that's about fair, maybe a little bit generous to the Rayners Lane/Ealing Broadway side. Sadly we're set to have all day stopping at Turnham Green once the line is upgraded. The track layout at Chiswick Park doesn't facilitate Piccadilly line calls there unless they use the District Line tracks all the way from Hammersmith so there may be a question mark over the station's future. The Uxbridge branch is scheduled to run 12tph (5 minutes in the peaks/10 minutes to Uxbridge) and 6tph (10 minutes/20 to Uxbridge in the off- peaks) tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/wtt-61-piccadilly-22-may-2023.pdfNot sure how many trains per hour can terminate at Uxbridge considering there's the Metropolitan too. I'd say 6ph would probably be ok. That is an ideal world although the Uxbridge branch is always ignored! The Metropolitan line is considerably faster into central London though
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Post by adl on Jul 20, 2023 16:16:13 GMT
Not sure how many trains per hour can terminate at Uxbridge considering there's the Metropolitan too. I'd say 6ph would probably be ok. That is an ideal world although the Uxbridge branch is always ignored! The Metropolitan line is considerably faster into central London though Would a swap of the District Line and Piccadilly Line terminus (Uxbridge and Ealing Broadway) be an option? I rarely see more than one District line at Ealing Broadway and they have 3 terminating bays to use whereas that one district line could fit into Uxbridge nicely?
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 20, 2023 16:23:48 GMT
Not sure how many trains per hour can terminate at Uxbridge considering there's the Metropolitan too. I'd say 6ph would probably be ok. That is an ideal world although the Uxbridge branch is always ignored! The Metropolitan line is considerably faster into central London though Would a swap of the District Line and Piccadilly Line terminus (Uxbridge and Ealing Broadway) be an option? I rarely see more than one District line at Ealing Broadway and they have 3 terminating bays to use whereas that one district line could fit into Uxbridge nicely? An interesting proposal. Not sure if it is viable but it would certainly be a long journey into central London. The District line is one of the slowest lines and Uxbridge to Upminster would be 54 stops! Whilst not impossible it's certainly unattractive. The only alternative proposal in the Uxbridge area I'd have is to divert some of the West Ruislip service on the central line to Uxbridge
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 20, 2023 16:33:10 GMT
I very much doubt the improved comfort level with rock hard seats!!! Even a 40 year old car has better seats. The main advantage is the quick journeys, nothing else. Some journeys can actually be quicker, but is not down to long dwell times at stops. I reckon as much as 8 minutes can be trimmed off the journey between Shenfield and Paddington. Comfort can be quite subjective, and I would certainly rather use the Elizabeth Line between Tottenham Court Road and Stratford on an air conditioned and quiet 345, even if the seats aren’t what one would consider “comfortable” rather than spend that on the Central Line crammed into a tiny 92 stock and having to endure the hell that is Liverpool Street to Bethnal Green (those who know, know) 😨 The trouble is, it is no longer QUIET. Even in the evening now the Elizabeth line is very busy over this section. Central line is no way as busy as it once was. The masses have gone over to the Elizabeth line.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 20, 2023 16:46:55 GMT
I very much doubt the improved comfort level with rock hard seats!!! Even a 40 year old car has better seats. The main advantage is the quick journeys, nothing else. Some journeys can actually be quicker, but is not down to long dwell times at stops. I reckon as much as 8 minutes can be trimmed off the journey between Shenfield and Paddington. Sorry but disagree that the 345’s have rock seats - now you could argue whether they are more comfortable than the outgoing 315’s they replaced in terms of seats but calling the seats rock hard feels like a bit of an exaggeration. Try riding Class 700’s long distance or even a refurbished Avanti West Coast unit to see what rock hard seats are Well compared to the 315's the seats are crap. Not a fan of any of these rock hard ball bag busting seats
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jul 20, 2023 16:53:44 GMT
Sorry but disagree that the 345’s have rock seats - now you could argue whether they are more comfortable than the outgoing 315’s they replaced in terms of seats but calling the seats rock hard feels like a bit of an exaggeration. Try riding Class 700’s long distance or even a refurbished Avanti West Coast unit to see what rock hard seats are Well compared to the 315's the seats are crap. Not a fan of any of these rock hard ball bag busting seats I'm not going to look at those seats in the same way again now. The rows of 4 seats that face each other are quite comfy, but very rare to find them empty Seats on the new DLR train are very similar to them.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 20, 2023 17:04:34 GMT
Sorry but disagree that the 345’s have rock seats - now you could argue whether they are more comfortable than the outgoing 315’s they replaced in terms of seats but calling the seats rock hard feels like a bit of an exaggeration. Try riding Class 700’s long distance or even a refurbished Avanti West Coast unit to see what rock hard seats are Well compared to the 315's the seats are crap. Not a fan of any of these rock hard ball bag busting seats Comfort isn't just the seating. It is also the on-board temperature (air-conditioning/heating), noise levels, and ride quality. Ease of boarding and alighting even at busy times also enhances the journey experience and can be regarded as contributing to overall comfort. Class 315s are all well and good but I don't think I would want to be riding one through the Central Core!
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