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Post by vjaska on Mar 3, 2018 17:50:49 GMT
Yes I have and it's not packed I've seen it in rush hour and it needs double decks, a bus doesn't have to be packed to the doors to be double deck Even in off peak it can see a fair bit of patronage I'm still amazed how someone who doesn't live in the area in question can tell someone else who does how busy or not a route is because they've done one or two journeys in their whole life on the said route. I've used the 292 a little bit but it was only on Saturdays over a period of a couple of months a few years ago just to film each VLP and the loadings were more than decent enough to justify double deckers. As you quite rightly say, buses don't need to be packed to the rafters to justify double deck operation. |
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Post by sid on Mar 3, 2018 17:57:24 GMT
I've seen it in rush hour and it needs double decks, a bus doesn't have to be packed to the doors to be double deck Even in off peak it can see a fair bit of patronage I'm still amazed how someone who doesn't live in the area in question can tell someone else who does how busy or not a route is because they've done one or two journeys in their whole life on the said route. I've used the 292 a little bit but it was only on Saturdays over a period of a couple of months a few years ago just to film each VLP and the loadings were more than decent enough to justify double deckers. As you quite rightly say, buses don't need to be packed to the rafters to justify double deck operation. Well everyone is entitled to their opinion, nobody has to be right or wrong. I've seen very little of the 292 recently so I'll offer no opinion one way or the other. |
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Post by 15002 on Mar 3, 2018 18:00:39 GMT
I'm still amazed how someone who doesn't live in the area in question can tell someone else who does how busy or not a route is because they've done one or two journeys in their whole life on the said route. I've used the 292 a little bit but it was only on Saturdays over a period of a couple of months a few years ago just to film each VLP and the loadings were more than decent enough to justify double deckers. As you quite rightly say, buses don't need to be packed to the rafters to justify double deck operation. Well everyone is entitled to their opinion, nobody has to be right or wrong. I've seen very little of the 292 recently so I'll offer no opinion one way or the other. I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but surely if a person who uses the bus on a regular basis is saying that they need the double deckers, do we listen to their opinion or a person that’s only gone on the bus once or twice? |
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Post by sid on Mar 3, 2018 18:02:12 GMT
Well everyone is entitled to their opinion, nobody has to be right or wrong. I've seen very little of the 292 recently so I'll offer no opinion one way or the other. I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but surely if a person who uses the bus on a regular basis is saying that they need the double deckers, do we listen to their opinion or a person that’s only gone on the bus once or twice? Quite honestly I'm happy to hear both opinions. |
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Post by 15002 on Mar 3, 2018 18:16:24 GMT
I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but surely if a person who uses the bus on a regular basis is saying that they need the double deckers, do we listen to their opinion or a person that’s only gone on the bus once or twice? Quite honestly I'm happy to hear both opinions. I’m fine with both opinions as long as both opinions have reasonable evidence based on regular use of these bus services or facts to back it up. It’s no good just saying you claiming you’ve used the bus twice therefore it shouldn’t be a double decker, then your opinion just becomes misinformed since you’ve not used the bus enough to justify your claim. |
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Post by arj on Mar 3, 2018 18:51:57 GMT
I'd like to reinforce what other members have said; 292 is busy enough to warrant DDs at peak hours. I don't use the route but often observe it to be busy when waiting in Edgware for other buses.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Mar 3, 2018 23:40:09 GMT
Plenty of routes especially in west London are now double-deck having been single-deck. Some examples I can think of are 28, 31, 92, 105, 183, 282, 285, 302, 328, 607, E1, E2, E3, H12, H32, H91, U4, U5. Just imagine if these reverted to single-deck!
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Post by met120 on Mar 4, 2018 9:38:07 GMT
Plenty of routes especially in west London are now double-deck having been single-deck. Some examples I can think of are 28, 31, 92, 105, 183, 282, 285, 302, 328, 607, E1, E2, E3, H12, H32, H91, U4, U5. Just imagine if these reverted to single-deck! The H32 is the only route that can easily revert to single deck from this list. I’ve never seen it half full. |
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 4, 2018 10:57:16 GMT
Plenty of routes especially in west London are now double-deck having been single-deck. Some examples I can think of are 28, 31, 92, 105, 183, 282, 285, 302, 328, 607, E1, E2, E3, H12, H32, H91, U4, U5. Just imagine if these reverted to single-deck! Most of these routes had been double-deck previously, before being converted to single-deck (often higher-frequency midibuses) then later back to double deck. This includes the H32 and H91 which had been routes 232 and 91 previously; the H-prefix was part of their rebranding as "Harrier" routes when they went over to midibuses. Also the H12 had been the 209 before it was minibussed as part of the ill-fated Harrow Buses scheme (the operation soon became known as "Harrowing Buses"). Similarly the U4 was the single-deck version of what had been the 204 when a similar scheme was applied to Uxbridge (I'm not sure what the U5 replaced). The conversion of the 183 to single-deck in 1999 was quickly realised to have been a mistake and it reverted to double-deck just over two years later. Even the 607 started off in July 1990 as a double-deck route with standard Metrobuses, before gaining 607 Express route-branded Leyland Nationals and Leyland Lynxes with coach-type seating in November 1991. Double deckers returned, in the shape of Alexander Royale-bodied Volvo Olympians, in October 1996. |
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Post by Arriva London Explorer on Mar 4, 2018 20:46:30 GMT
I've seen it in rush hour and it needs double decks, a bus doesn't have to be packed to the doors to be double deck Even in off peak it can see a fair bit of patronage I'm still amazed how someone who doesn't live in the area in question can tell someone else who does how busy or not a route is because they've done one or two journeys in their whole life on the said route. I've used the 292 a little bit but it was only on Saturdays over a period of a couple of months a few years ago just to film each VLP and the loadings were more than decent enough to justify double deckers. As you quite rightly say, buses don't need to be packed to the rafters to justify double deck operation. NO need for you to get rude every one entitled to their own opinions and first of all you don't know where I live to be chatting. Yes I used the 292 regular especially evening peaks from colindale to Edgware on Sundays |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 4, 2018 21:13:37 GMT
I'm still amazed how someone who doesn't live in the area in question can tell someone else who does how busy or not a route is because they've done one or two journeys in their whole life on the said route. I've used the 292 a little bit but it was only on Saturdays over a period of a couple of months a few years ago just to film each VLP and the loadings were more than decent enough to justify double deckers. As you quite rightly say, buses don't need to be packed to the rafters to justify double deck operation. NO need for you to get rude every one entitled to their own opinions and first of all you don't know where I live to be chatting. Yes I used the 292 regular especially evening peaks from colindale to Edgware on Sundays Firstly, my post was a general post and not specifically aimed at you so I don't understand why your taking offence to it - if it was aimed at you, I'd of quoted you. Secondly, I never said people aren't entitled to their opinions but they should also understand that someone who lives in an area will inevitably have far more knowledge than others who don't and visit it every once in a while. From your posts, you sound just like one of those people personally. Lastly, if you actually mentioned you use the 292 regularly, then people might of been more understanding. That said, I'm pretty sure you mentioned before you live in Havering or nearby? |
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Mar 6, 2018 22:51:51 GMT
Yes I used the 292 regular especially evening peaks from colindale to Edgware on Sundays Sundays evenings? Not many routes will be busy then. Weekends do not really have peaks, it has to be a weekday, also when schools are open. 330 was once single-deck and reverted to double because it couldn't cope! So absolutely a bad idea. It also has the either first or second highest passenger density out of any London routes - other being W7. Figures speak for themselves |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 6, 2018 23:57:22 GMT
Yes I used the 292 regular especially evening peaks from colindale to Edgware on Sundays Sundays evenings? Not many routes will be busy then. Weekends do not really have peaks, it has to be a weekday, also when schools are open. 330 was once single-deck and reverted to double because it couldn't cope! So absolutely a bad idea. It also has the either first or second highest passenger density out of any London routes - other being W7. Figures speak for themselves Weekends most certainly do have peaks in terms of high volumes of people travelling but on services which are often less frequent / less well resourced than M-F. Tottenham up to Ponders End is like hell on earth for most of Sunday. Lots of church goers mixing with shoppers mixing with people making trips to connect to the tube. The 123 has a "church" rush in the morning and you can struggle to get on between 1700 and 1830 when shoppers pile off the tube having been shopping in town. Lost count of the times when I've been crushed standing on a 123 at that time. Camden also has disproportionate crowding on Sundays because of the market. Ditto around Liverpool St for people visiting Petticoat Lane market plus the added Shoreditch / Spitalfields crowd. Clearly a lot of areas are much quieter and evenings more so but there are plenty of pressure points on the network - especially Sundays and doubly so if tube / rail routes are closed for engineering works. |
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Mar 7, 2018 7:46:45 GMT
Well the Brixton Hill routes are definitely busy as well, it's one of those huge corridors - but I wouldn't characterise the 292 as a route that would see large commuter peak on weekends.
A lot of buses are busier than usual on sundays midday as frequencies are generally weak - and of course no chance of upgrading them now any time soon.
I also wonder what is 292's sunday frequency - if it's every 20-30mins, then it doesn't seem very encouraging or attractive a service
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Post by DE20106 on Mar 8, 2018 18:16:19 GMT
Well the Brixton Hill routes are definitely busy as well, it's one of those huge corridors - but I wouldn't characterise the 292 as a route that would see large commuter peak on weekends. A lot of buses are busier than usual on sundays midday as frequencies are generally weak - and of course no chance of upgrading them now any time soon. I also wonder what is 292's sunday frequency - if it's every 20-30mins, then it doesn't seem very encouraging or attractive a service I think what you’re describing is exactly what will happen with the 412 as well, it’s already low patronage will just crash and burn even more. It’s understandable TfL reducing the frequency of the 412 so significantly outside peak times, but the problem with doing that is that if you cripple the 412 even more, the few passengers that do use it won’t bother cos it will be a rubbish service. The reason for the 412’s measly loadings is almost definitely because people use their cars to get from place to place instead (because so much of the route runs alone), so I think the only way the 412’s loadings will increase, is by making it a more attractive service. Risky move though, because you’re relying on a hockey stick movement. TfL would be relying upon the extra incoming revenue that currently isn’t there, to cover the extra cost of the improved service, revenue that might not even come in at all. Generally though, any improvements is more likely to bring in extra customers. Like the expansion of any road, one expands a road to improve its capacity, but after nearly no time it’s jammed up even worse because EVERYONE sees it as a more attractive option, so much so that the traffic can’t move. This is a memo that TfL haven’t grasped, but probably the reason why is because of their current severe money shortages, they can ill-afford to lose more money if any improvements don’t work out. But the even BIGGER memo that TfL haven’t grasped is that if you cut the frequency of a service, the patronage would fall even faster than before, because people will turn their backs on a service that’s unattractive, infrequent and/or unreliable. People don’t want to be hanging around longer waiting for a bus, they want to use the most efficient route. I do have real sympathy though, when a business is cash-strapped and can’t afford to improve services, because that then means there’s no direct solution to increasing patronage/profits if you’re forced to keep making cuts, it just goes into a downward spiral until there’s nothing left. |
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