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Post by sid on Mar 2, 2018 17:13:02 GMT
AFAIK 330 and 363 are busy bus routes. The 363 helps the 63 and provides many links from Crystal Palace and could get much busier because of its oputing over Bricklayers Flyover. The route 330 is busy as I have seen it and can help relive many routes such as the 58. 363 just empty especially honor oak to crystal place like only 4 people tbh it's very fast though I got to admit Yes I've noticed the Crystal Palace end being pretty quiet of late, can get busy between Peckham and E&C at peak times though especially if there's a gap in the 63. |
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Post by DE20106 on Mar 2, 2018 17:13:51 GMT
Not suggesting these routes should be put forward as single deck routes but how well are the 430, 194 and 77 loaded in the peak times? Outside of the peaks they just seem to be carrying fresh air and can’t imagine them being rammed full with passengers. (Except for when the SWT was doing its works at Waterloo last summer and the 77 had its PVR nearly doubled to 33. Could imagine there was a big demand for it then!) The 77 can get fairly busy but the 194 and 430 could manage with single deckers, indeed the 194 has done in the past. The 430 is a weird one because although I only ever see it carry fresh air, it’s PVR, length and usage figures are very similar to that of the 196, a route which double deckers are definitely justified (about 4.1 million a year) so what’s the 430 doing differently?  |
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Post by sid on Mar 2, 2018 17:31:14 GMT
The 77 can get fairly busy but the 194 and 430 could manage with single deckers, indeed the 194 has done in the past. The 430 is a weird one because although I only ever see it carry fresh air, it’s PVR, length and usage figures are very similar to that of the 196, a route which double deckers are definitely justified (about 4.1 million a year) so what’s the 430 doing differently? The 430 isn't really needed at all between Putney Bridge and South Kensington, the 74 is more than adequate. |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 2, 2018 17:35:25 GMT
AFAIK 330 and 363 are busy bus routes. The 363 helps the 63 and provides many links from Crystal Palace and could get much busier because of its oputing over Bricklayers Flyover. The route 330 is busy as I have seen it and can help relive many routes such as the 58. 363 just empty especially honor oak to crystal place like only 4 people tbh it's very fast though I got to admit I can tell you don’t use the 363 often. |
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Post by DE20106 on Mar 2, 2018 17:53:24 GMT
363 just empty especially honor oak to crystal place like only 4 people tbh it's very fast though I got to admit I can tell you don’t use the 363 often. I was gonna say you must be seeing a different 363 that I see!!! It’s an extremely busy route, if they single decked the 363 I think the residents of Peckham would start a riot wouldn’t they?😂 EDIT: It’s very hard to believe that the 363 carries considerably less passengers than the 430 in a year |
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Post by COBO on Mar 2, 2018 17:56:53 GMT
Have you used the 292? The 292 defiantly needs DDs. Yes I have but it's like 12 people on the bus at peak especially evening peak 107 is heavy used bus so as 113 I don't always use the 292 but the times when I do use the 292 it was busy. |
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Post by sid on Mar 2, 2018 18:09:23 GMT
I can tell you don’t use the 363 often. I was gonna say you must be seeing a different 363 that I see!!! It’s an extremely busy route, if they single decked the 363 I think the residents of Peckham would start a riot wouldn’t they?😂 EDIT: It’s very hard to believe that the 363 carries considerably less passengers than the 430 in a year I hardly think anybody would be that fussed, the Peckham to E&C section can be busy depending on when the last 63 was but the Crystal Palace end is generally quiet. |
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Post by fg49 on Mar 2, 2018 18:13:20 GMT
The 430 is a weird one because although I only ever see it carry fresh air, it’s PVR, length and usage figures are very similar to that of the 196, a route which double deckers are definitely justified (about 4.1 million a year) so what’s the 430 doing differently? The 430 isn't really needed at all between Putney Bridge and South Kensington, the 74 is more than adequate. I doubt you'll be able to get everyone on the 74 seeing as they normally turn up packed! The 430 provides the necessary capacity along this corridor especially after the latest cuts. |
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Post by sid on Mar 2, 2018 18:16:36 GMT
The 430 isn't really needed at all between Putney Bridge and South Kensington, the 74 is more than adequate. I doubt you'll be able to get everyone on the 74 seeing as they normally turn up packed! The 430 provides the necessary capacity along this corridor especially after the latest cuts. Turn up where packed? Even at peak hours there's fresh air on that section. |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 2, 2018 18:21:54 GMT
215; 357; 20; 330; 363; 403 Oh dear do we have to keep doing this ad nauseum with the same tedious list of routes. The 20 has very considerable school traffic flows at both ends of the route. Whether we like it or not it also acts as back up to the Central Line if it fails. It also has reasonable peak time flows. Yes it can be quiet on some off peak trips but we are back to the never ending debate about what is the optimum operating method - keeping double decks in service all day or playing a merry dance of swapping vehicle types at different times of day. The 357 can have very heavy peak flows and depending on how other performances it can pick up decent numbers of people if there are gaps. The 215 can have very heavy peak loadings and it also has surges of demand during times when the Camp Site is busy with foreign visitors. As I have said before full buses on Sunday mornings or weekday evenings are not unknown. Both the 357 and 215 can get with surges of demand for schools and college traffic. I have seen the 330 completely beseiged with passengers at Canning Town. It's one of those routes where people just turn up out of nowhere or where interchange from the tube ensures a very steady flow of passengers. Can't comment on the S London routes. I do wish we could move on from people making suggestions based on what sometimes looks like 2 or 3 observations of a route at a single point on that route. That is in no way properly representative of how a route performs or is used. You need a large sample size with observations across an entire route. I have over 30 years of seeing and using bus services in Waltham Forest and somewhat less elsewhere in East London. That's why I feel qualified to comment on those routes. I rarely comment on South or West London routes as my use of them is pretty sparse so anything I see is naturally very limited in the wider scheme of things. If I do comment I try to ensure that I qualify any remarks I make. |
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Post by DE20106 on Mar 2, 2018 18:23:16 GMT
I doubt you'll be able to get everyone on the 74 seeing as they normally turn up packed! The 430 provides the necessary capacity along this corridor especially after the latest cuts. Turn up where packed? Even at peak hours there's fresh air on that section. Totally agree with that, never see the 74 particularly busy. I don’t blame TfL for cutting the 74/430, those routes are very superfluous especially at around West Brompton. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Mar 2, 2018 18:24:22 GMT
Turn up where packed? Even at peak hours there's fresh air on that section. Totally agree with that, never see the 74 particularly busy. I don’t blame TfL for cutting the 74/430, those routes are very superfluous especially at around West Brompton. I've seen many packed 74s in Central London, especially along Baker Street. |
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Post by sid on Mar 2, 2018 18:27:58 GMT
Totally agree with that, never see the 74 particularly busy. I don’t blame TfL for cutting the 74/430, those routes are very superfluous especially at around West Brompton. I've seen many packed 74s in Central London, especially along Baker Street. The Central London section can be busy, although from my observations they're pretty empty by Baker Street, but it was the South Kensington to Putney Bridge section that was being referred to, no need for two routes? |
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Post by DE20106 on Mar 2, 2018 18:29:45 GMT
Totally agree with that, never see the 74 particularly busy. I don’t blame TfL for cutting the 74/430, those routes are very superfluous especially at around West Brompton. I've seen many packed 74s in Central London, especially along Baker Street. Sorry I should have said ‘rarely’ rather than never, I’ve been on a packed 74 myself from Hyde Park Corner down towards South Ken, and have also seen another one at some other point in Central London. Only observed two busy journeys on that route though. The rest of the time it’s been mostly carrying air definitely on the bits outside of Central London, maybe half full at best. The 14 is a far busier and superior route, which is one of my favourites and is packed for most of the day. |
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Post by sid on Mar 2, 2018 18:29:49 GMT
215; 357; 20; 330; 363; 403 Oh dear do we have to keep doing this ad nauseum with the same tedious list of routes. The 20 has very considerable school traffic flows at both ends of the route. Whether we like it or not it also acts as back up to the Central Line if it fails. It also has reasonable peak time flows. Yes it can be quiet on some off peak trips but we are back to the never ending debate about what is the optimum operating method - keeping double decks in service all day or playing a merry dance of swapping vehicle types at different times of day. The 357 can have very heavy peak flows and depending on how other performances it can pick up decent numbers of people if there are gaps. The 215 can have very heavy peak loadings and it also has surges of demand during times when the Camp Site is busy with foreign visitors. As I have said before full buses on Sunday mornings or weekday evenings are not unknown. Both the 357 and 215 can get with surges of demand for schools and college traffic. I have seen the 330 completely beseiged with passengers at Canning Town. It's one of those routes where people just turn up out of nowhere or where interchange from the tube ensures a very steady flow of passengers. Can't comment on the S London routes. I do wish we could move on from people making suggestions based on what sometimes looks like 2 or 3 observations of a route at a single point on that route. That is in no way properly representative of how a route performs or is used. You need a large sample size with observations across an entire route. I have over 30 years of seeing and using bus services in Waltham Forest and somewhat less elsewhere in East London. That's why I feel qualified to comment on those routes. I rarely comment on South or West London routes as my use of them is pretty sparse so anything I see is naturally very limited in the wider scheme of things. If I do comment I try to ensure that I qualify any remarks I make. This is a bus forum and if people don't like a particular thread there is no requirement to partake in it. |
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