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Post by LBOTG on Jan 28, 2018 10:22:19 GMT
Route E1. A short route. I rode it end to end early one Saturday afternoon last year, having only just missed the bus before, and there were never many passengers upstairs. I take it you haven't used the E1 at peak times. I used to use the service every Friday at 6pm and there was almost always standing room only, with most buses leaving Ealing Broadway packed to the door. I don't doubt the situation is the same during the morning and school run, with a large number of large high schools in close proximity to the route. It does run empty outside of peak times but single deckers simply wouldn't cope unless you almost doubled the frequency. |
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Post by ak121 on Jan 28, 2018 13:02:36 GMT
I would say maybe the 482 doesn't need double deckers. I say this because whenever I see it, there's always about 10-15 people on board max. By converting it to single decker 10.9 metre operation, the current TE's could be used for other routes? Not sure which ones though...
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Post by Hassaan on Jan 28, 2018 13:35:14 GMT
I would say maybe the 482 doesn't need double deckers. I say this because whenever I see it, there's always about 10-15 people on board max. By converting it to single decker 10.9 metre operation, the current TE's could be used for other routes? Not sure which ones though... The 482 (and it's predecessor the 435) only came about to provide buses for Heathrow workers, and the low frequency + start finish times of the 482 shows this. Southall to Hounslow West loadings depend on how long it has been since the H32 (and the other routes in Southall). |
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Post by ak121 on Jan 28, 2018 14:50:08 GMT
Yes the 482 is at a low frequency: M-S it's about every 15-20 mins and on Sunday it's about every 25-31 mins. I know it was provided for Heathrow employees and as an alternative to the H32 in Convent Way and Heston, the route is on a 22 hour service, it just isn't operational between 01:35 and 03:20 in the early morning. The H32 is quite reliable as it's once every 10 mins and the crowds aren't too bad, I think the 482 does justify single decker working. Maybe even 12 metre buses?
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Post by redexpress on Jan 28, 2018 15:23:50 GMT
Route E1. A short route. I rode it end to end early one Saturday afternoon last year, having only just missed the bus before, and there were never many passengers upstairs. I take it you haven't used the E1 at peak times. I used to use the service every Friday at 6pm and there was almost always standing room only, with most buses leaving Ealing Broadway packed to the door. I don't doubt the situation is the same during the morning and school run, with a large number of large high schools in close proximity to the route. It does run empty outside of peak times but single deckers simply wouldn't cope unless you almost doubled the frequency. Many years ago the E1 ran with DDs in the peaks and midibuses off-peak. During the peaks the midibuses off the E1 were used to increase the frequency on the E2. This didn't solve the problem of DDs sitting idle for most of the day, but not a bad way to maximise the use of the midibuses. Of course this sort of thing wouldn't be possible these days because each route is tendered individually, as snowman pointed out earlier in the thread. |
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Post by jrussa on Jan 28, 2018 21:33:25 GMT
I would nominate Route 275. It is only busy between 7-9am and when schools are clearing out.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 29, 2018 0:35:49 GMT
I would nominate Route 275. It is only busy between 7-9am and when schools are clearing out. You clearly see a different 275 to me then.  |
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Post by snoggle on Jan 29, 2018 0:42:23 GMT
Yes the 482 is at a low frequency: M-S it's about every 15-20 mins and on Sunday it's about every 25-31 mins. I know it was provided for Heathrow employees and as an alternative to the H32 in Convent Way and Heston, the route is on a 22 hour service, it just isn't operational between 01:35 and 03:20 in the early morning. The H32 is quite reliable as it's once every 10 mins and the crowds aren't too bad, I think the 482 does justify single decker working. Maybe even 12 metre buses? The privately operated precedessor to the 482 / 435 - the 805 IIRC - was operated with single deckers. I assume TfL specify double decks purely because you can get very spiky peaks for routes serving Heathrow at odd times and with such a low frequency it's pretty useless to have to turn people away and leave them facing a 30 min wait. Not really acceptable when people are going to work at 0330 in the morning. |
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Post by rmz19 on Jan 29, 2018 1:33:56 GMT
To be frank, most Double Deck routes that exist in London justify being operated by Double Decks due to the fact that they were allocated them in the first place. Despite the circumstances that have occured to certain routes over time, rather than unnecessarily fiddling around with vehicle allocations their frequencies can simply be modified to match demand.
The only exception to this rule is e.g. a x30 min DD route that regularly sees empty buses, because an hourly service is undesirable single decks would be the solution. However I can't think of any route that has this issue.
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Post by l1group on Jan 29, 2018 19:09:11 GMT
Yes the 482 is at a low frequency: M-S it's about every 15-20 mins and on Sunday it's about every 25-31 mins. I know it was provided for Heathrow employees and as an alternative to the H32 in Convent Way and Heston, the route is on a 22 hour service, it just isn't operational between 01:35 and 03:20 in the early morning. The H32 is quite reliable as it's once every 10 mins and the crowds aren't too bad, I think the 482 does justify single decker working. Maybe even 12 metre buses? You try telling airport workers the 482 would go single decker at 3am... Full, standing, no space possible etc on the 482s in the morning with that! If you specify a 12 metre bus, you might as well put a decker on it, makes minimal difference in capacity! There are actually very few routes that don't justify deckers in the TfL retrospect, whether it be allocations based, or (future) demand based. |
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Post by l1group on Jan 29, 2018 19:13:18 GMT
Yes the 482 is at a low frequency: M-S it's about every 15-20 mins and on Sunday it's about every 25-31 mins. I know it was provided for Heathrow employees and as an alternative to the H32 in Convent Way and Heston, the route is on a 22 hour service, it just isn't operational between 01:35 and 03:20 in the early morning. The H32 is quite reliable as it's once every 10 mins and the crowds aren't too bad, I think the 482 does justify single decker working. Maybe even 12 metre buses? The privately operated precedessor to the 482 / 435 - the 805 IIRC - was operated with single deckers. I assume TfL specify double decks purely because you can get very spiky peaks for routes serving Heathrow at odd times and with such a low frequency it's pretty useless to have to turn people away and leave them facing a 30 min wait. Not really acceptable when people are going to work at 0330 in the morning. Nearly every route into Heathrow is full with workers in the morning - really interesting to see Harlington Corner, Heathrow Central, Terminal 5 in the early mornings. Full, standing and no space N9s in the morning are definitely interesting to see, certainly. 805 I presume was operated by single deckers because of the excessive cost/benefit ratio at the time. 435 was, as far as I know, operated with the available buses First had at the time, which were the TNs. With the opening of Heathrow Terminal 5, demand has shot up as even more workers work at the airport now. |
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Post by lazy_eye_metaphor on Jan 29, 2018 19:17:59 GMT
My nomination is the 492. Surprised it's not already been mentioned.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 19:20:30 GMT
My nomination is the 492. Surprised it's not already been mentioned. Trouble is school loadings. Can get very busy! If it was single decked, it would need an accompanying school route. 692 anyone? Crayford to Sidcup Station, some starting in Bexley? |
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 29, 2018 19:25:08 GMT
I’d like to put forward the following: 482 I considered proposing 12m buses at a more attractive frequency for this route, but decided it would be a bad move due to the common section with the H32 being rather busy. The capacity is required along Convent Way for people interchanging for the Tube and Hounslow town centre. It is probably not a good idea to create crowding off issues for people trying to get to Heathrow so it stays as a double deck route. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 19:35:02 GMT
Trouble is school loadings. Can get very busy! If it was single decked, it would need an accompanying school route. 692 anyone? Crayford to Sidcup Station, some starting in Bexley? A 692 already exists and runs from Winchmore Hill to a school in Potters Bar. Oops! Would need a different number! |
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