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Post by vjaska on Jan 29, 2018 21:03:09 GMT
My nomination is the 492. Surprised it's not already been mentioned. Trouble is school loadings. Can get very busy! If it was single decked, it would need an accompanying school route. 692 anyone? Crayford to Sidcup Station, some starting in Bexley? It can be busy on Saturdays as well to & from Bluewater - my journey two Saturdays ago was busy from Bluewater in fact and I’ve experienced similar in the past. I’d keep it as deckers personally. |
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Post by snoggle on Jan 30, 2018 0:00:52 GMT
The privately operated precedessor to the 482 / 435 - the 805 IIRC - was operated with single deckers. I assume TfL specify double decks purely because you can get very spiky peaks for routes serving Heathrow at odd times and with such a low frequency it's pretty useless to have to turn people away and leave them facing a 30 min wait. Not really acceptable when people are going to work at 0330 in the morning. Nearly every route into Heathrow is full with workers in the morning - really interesting to see Harlington Corner, Heathrow Central, Terminal 5 in the early mornings. Full, standing and no space N9s in the morning are definitely interesting to see, certainly. 805 I presume was operated by single deckers because of the excessive cost/benefit ratio at the time. 435 was, as far as I know, operated with the available buses First had at the time, which were the TNs. With the opening of Heathrow Terminal 5, demand has shot up as even more workers work at the airport now. The 805 was not a TfL contract route. Bharat Travel ran with with Darts IIRC. It was adjusted to run to the T5 construction site during its final iteration. The Timetable for it is in the Timetable Graveyard. I can't imagine Bharat Travel would have wanted to run double deckers given they were (are?) a coach operator at the time. I assume the successor firm is New Bharat Coaches who still run Southall to West / East Midlands & W Yorks daily coaches with rather posh Van Hool double deck coaches. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 10:16:12 GMT
160 is always empty when I use it.
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Jan 30, 2018 13:55:49 GMT
If to point the finger to one route and one route only, forever the D8. What a bloody farce this one is. 160 is always empty when I use it. Schools. A lot of schools on the route. Contrary to the thread subject, let me say why some of your suggestions should STAY double-deck  17 certainly shouldn't be here. Peaks do their thing - if the bus is emptish, either the headway is too small, something ahead nicked the passengers, or perhaps the flow is in the other direction. 353, 61, 412 are classic busy during school kick out routes. I've been on a 353 which left people behind. 406+418: school traffic in both directions. Those who want singles on it clearly not have been caught in their school runs D7 is much better used during peak. Very overbussed off-peak however. 425 would be better suited to 12m buses but enjoys luxury spare capacity instead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 401 is very busy school times and out of Bexleyheath - standing loads only. 269 is partly schools based, but also the traffic makes buses oddly spaced out and passengers group up. 129 is DD to cope with the passenger crush out of North Greenwich. 241 I think is DD for the Stratford-Plaistow corridor and would struggle had it been single-decked and been the first bus in a while there. 388 is DD for the overlap with 8 and Stratford City loads. 320 schools and life-line for Biggin Hill - been on a well-patronised decker out of there on Saturday evening! 357 - coping with passengers out of Walthamstow in the peak. 415 - if you ever did the bus from Tulse Hill towards Brixton AM peak you'd understand. I've been on full buses on that route there that left people behind... Plus provided there is no 133 in front, it's also a good feeder for the Brixton-Kennington-Elephant corridor. 492 and 467 - school traffic and also because it's cheaper to run low-freq DDs than slightly more frequent singles. 482 - heck no. I've seen the late 3AM bus and it was full - yes a decker... The route thrives on Heathrow shift changes. E1 - very dependent on train loads - in the peak if the bus is timed just in time for the central line kick-outs it'll be very busy trust me 496/498/317 are all every 20min and well used in the peaks 107 - schools and used to be busy in the peaks. However it's been a while since I saw a proper busy one and can't shake off the impression a 12m bus would have been much better suited for this one. |
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Post by sid on Jan 30, 2018 15:15:25 GMT
160 is always empty when I use it. Another route that only needs double deckers for school loadings. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 18:34:37 GMT
160 is always empty when I use it. Another route that only needs double deckers for school loadings. I did the Sidcup to Eltham section today in mid afternoon, 2 people got on in Sidcup and got off in Chislehurst. Another 4 people got on in Chislehurst and New Eltham and got off in Eltham. |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 30, 2018 18:52:54 GMT
160 is always empty when I use it. Another route that only needs double deckers for school loadings. Not from my observations - I seen busy 160’s on Saturdays though granted I’m not always a regular in that area. The fact a school route shadows and yet the 160 still is specified deckers seems to suggest it’s fine as it is. Wasn’t you one of the people who wasn’t happy with Arriva throwing single deckers out? |
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Post by iranair747 on Jan 30, 2018 19:10:10 GMT
E1 - very dependent on train loads - in the peak if the bus is timed just in time for the central line kick-outs it'll be very busy trust me Whats with the hate to the E1 in this thread XD I've seen this bus standing room only on a Sunday afternoon, let alone in the peaks. The route runs entirely in residential areas with a number of schools. Plus it shuttles people both towards Greenford and Ealing, not just towards Ealing. I vote the E9 should go back to single deck, with the DD's going to the E7. That's a longer route with more delays which leads to higher passenger loads |
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Post by sid on Jan 30, 2018 19:11:05 GMT
Another route that only needs double deckers for school loadings. Not from my observations - I seen busy 160’s on Saturdays though granted I’m not always a regular in that area. The fact a school route shadows and yet the 160 still is specified deckers seems to suggest it’s fine as it is. Wasn’t you one of the people who wasn’t happy with Arriva throwing single deckers out? Well Arriva shouldn't have been putting single deckers on the route because obviously double deckers are specified, whether they are really needed is another matter. The Catford to Eltham section tends to be a bit busier but Eltham to Sidcup is pretty dead. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 19:12:35 GMT
Not from my observations - I seen busy 160’s on Saturdays though granted I’m not always a regular in that area. The fact a school route shadows and yet the 160 still is specified deckers seems to suggest it’s fine as it is. Wasn’t you one of the people who wasn’t happy with Arriva throwing single deckers out? Well Arriva shouldn't have been putting single deckers on the route because obviously double deckers are specified, whether they are really needed is another matter. The Catford to Eltham section tends to be a bit busier but Eltham to Sidcup is pretty dead. The Catford to Eltham section is for the most part covered by the 660. Put an extra couple of buses on there and you can single deck the 160. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 30, 2018 19:15:20 GMT
Well Arriva shouldn't have been putting single deckers on the route because obviously double deckers are specified, whether they are really needed is another matter. The Catford to Eltham section tends to be a bit busier but Eltham to Sidcup is pretty dead. The Catford to Eltham section is for the most part covered by the 660. Put an extra couple of buses on there and you can single deck the 160. Put a couple of extra buses on there and you probably negate any savings ... hence self-defeating. |
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Post by sid on Jan 30, 2018 19:16:21 GMT
Well Arriva shouldn't have been putting single deckers on the route because obviously double deckers are specified, whether they are really needed is another matter. The Catford to Eltham section tends to be a bit busier but Eltham to Sidcup is pretty dead. The Catford to Eltham section is for the most part covered by the 660. Put an extra couple of buses on there and you can single deck the 160. Yes indeed and of course the 160 has been single decker in the past. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 19:18:25 GMT
The Catford to Eltham section is for the most part covered by the 660. Put an extra couple of buses on there and you can single deck the 160. Put a couple of extra buses on there and you probably negate any savings ... hence self-defeating. Yes. Your probably right! Some school routes have a very high PVR it would probably be more cost effective to just make them permanent routes! At least then they'd be more profitable! Take the 601. PVR of 7. That's 7 buses which are sitting in the garage for the most part of the day when they could be out making some money. The money saved from those 7 buses could extend the 401 to Dartford Heath again instead of sitting in the garage all day. |
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Post by M1199 on Jan 30, 2018 20:19:20 GMT
The U5: Probably a worser DD conversion than what the 350 was. Whereas the 350 caters 3 airport shift changes, 2 conventional peak hours and 1 school kick out time, the U5 only gets the conventional peak hours and the school kick out.
Other than late night when you see the local yoof getting their free rides, I've never seen more than half a dozen people on the top deck since the U5 was converted when I've been in my travels. Don't get me wrong it probably does get busy but not very often, the 10.2m Darts since the route was reintroduced back in 2004 had coped perfectly well! Just look at when the Nimbuses the Abellio used whilst waiting for the MMC top ups, th majority ran round half empty.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 30, 2018 21:00:42 GMT
The U5: Probably a worser DD conversion than what the 350 was. Whereas the 350 caters 3 airport shift changes, 2 conventional peak hours and 1 school kick out time, the U5 only gets the conventional peak hours and the school kick out. Other than late night when you see the local yoof getting their free rides, I've never seen more than half a dozen people on the top deck since the U5 was converted when I've been in my travels. Don't get me wrong it probably does get busy but not very often, the 10.2m Darts since the route was reintroduced back in 2004 had coped perfectly well! Just look at when the Nimbuses the Abellio used whilst waiting for the MMC top ups, th majority ran round half empty. Apart from the D8, this is probably the only other one I’d agree with. To rub salt in the wounds, the busier U1 & U3 are still single decker routes. |
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