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Post by rif153 on Jun 8, 2019 7:18:22 GMT
I'm devastated to see the 53 being cutback to Lambeth North but I've ranted about how much it angers me enough. I really wish TFL would create an X53 from Oxford Circus-Plumstead but sadly TFL wouldn't create a new bus route linking Woolwich to Central London when Crossrail is supposed to be coming soon (although we've all heard that one before!) neverthless its a travesty that some of the useful links provided by the 53 are to be lost. TFL would argue that the 53 is superfluous on Whitehall but they fail to realise that 53's have only just begun so cannot be expected to be full yet despite that buses are still healthily loaded before having reached the stop 'Lower Marsh'. Don't even get me started on the frequency cut I too would love for the X53 to return, calling from Thamesmead then, Plumstead, Woolwich, Charlton, Blackheath non stop to E&C then on to Oxford Street, however the eastbound fast section between E&C and Old Kent Road is as close as we’re ever going to get in terms of an “express” service. The TfL’s CrossRail reason for me isn’t truly valid, since the 53 doesn’t really parallel the new line at all, they only meet at Woolwich, then literally take different routes into Central London. There is also a matter that buses will always be cheaper than by train or tube, and i rarely see a 53 bus carrying air, so demand for the 53 will never die, TfL thought that the Jubilee line at North Greenwich (which is some miles away from Plumstead & Woolwich) would be enough to kill the route off west of E&C, so much so they killed off the X53 entirely, but twenty years on and the 53 is still busy and bustling They have always had it in for the 53, in fact TfL seems to have it in for SE London as a whole, I remember when the 177 was systematically cut back then finally rerouted to Peckham in the early 1990s, then the 109 was chopped at Brixton with no real replacement northbound. I agree about the Crossrail excuse being paper thin. I find it vexatious well used routes like the 25 and 53 are being hacked back from their Central London terminus with Crossrail used as the excuse even though there are plenty of people along both routes who will not be able to use Crossrail as an alternative |
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Post by route53 on Jun 8, 2019 8:17:46 GMT
I too would love for the X53 to return, calling from Thamesmead then, Plumstead, Woolwich, Charlton, Blackheath non stop to E&C then on to Oxford Street, however the eastbound fast section between E&C and Old Kent Road is as close as we’re ever going to get in terms of an “express” service. The TfL’s CrossRail reason for me isn’t truly valid, since the 53 doesn’t really parallel the new line at all, they only meet at Woolwich, then literally take different routes into Central London. There is also a matter that buses will always be cheaper than by train or tube, and i rarely see a 53 bus carrying air, so demand for the 53 will never die, TfL thought that the Jubilee line at North Greenwich (which is some miles away from Plumstead & Woolwich) would be enough to kill the route off west of E&C, so much so they killed off the X53 entirely, but twenty years on and the 53 is still busy and bustling They have always had it in for the 53, in fact TfL seems to have it in for SE London as a whole, I remember when the 177 was systematically cut back then finally rerouted to Peckham in the early 1990s, then the 109 was chopped at Brixton with no real replacement northbound. I agree about the Crossrail excuse being paper thin. I find it vexatious well used routes like the 25 and 53 are being hacked back from their Central London terminus with Crossrail used as the excuse even though there are plenty of people along both routes who will not be able to use Crossrail as an alternative The 25 is actually more justifiable being cut back to City Thameslink because the 25 does actually parallel CrossRail from Ilford to the West End. However that said I don’t agree with it being cut back because there are a lot of low income workers who rely on buses to get them to Central London from the middle/outer suburbs and many of them Won’t transfer to the fancy new line because they’ll want to save money. We need another mayor who actually valued buses and their commuters and Ken Livingstone (much as I dislike him) was that mayor |
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Post by sid on Jun 8, 2019 10:26:24 GMT
I agree about the Crossrail excuse being paper thin. I find it vexatious well used routes like the 25 and 53 are being hacked back from their Central London terminus with Crossrail used as the excuse even though there are plenty of people along both routes who will not be able to use Crossrail as an alternative The 25 is actually more justifiable being cut back to City Thameslink because the 25 does actually parallel CrossRail from Ilford to the West End. However that said I don’t agree with it being cut back because there are a lot of low income workers who rely on buses to get them to Central London from the middle/outer suburbs and many of them Won’t transfer to the fancy new line because they’ll want to save money. We need another mayor who actually valued buses and their commuters and Ken Livingstone (much as I dislike him) was that mayor This is probably more appropriate in the Central London section but anyway the 25 has been cut back before the opening of Crossrail which is a bit ridiculous although it was inevitable that it would be once it opened. I'm afraid I don't think this 'low income workers' argument stacks up, TfL were never going to put a nice new railway line through Central London and still fund a parrelel bus service for cheapskates. The journey is still doable by bus with a change if the 25 was curtailed at the more logical Holborn Station. |
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Post by route53 on Jun 8, 2019 10:39:52 GMT
53 used to go Plumstead to Camden Town 109 to Victoria Embankment 108 Crystal Palce to Bromley By Bow( Seven Stars) 54 Woolwich to Croydon 12 Park Royal/ Harlesden to South Croydon London's longest Route 726 ( now X26) Heathrow to Gravesend 88 Acton Green to Banstead Happy Days Didn’t the 53 also used to run from Erith in the early days? Remember the current 53 is actually the former 53A and the “main” 53 used to run via New Charlton & Greenwich while the 53 runs via Charlton Village & Blackheath and i think the Original 53 in the 1930s and 40s ran to Erith. The 54 cutback was also a mistake at the time even supporters of the tram were against this cutback. I think the 171 cutback is even worse than the 53, the 171 is a handy cross river route, I honestly wonder if anyone sane runs TfL, they refuse to give the lengthy commuter routes like the 18, 25, 53 & 109 express routes yet the 140 will gain an express version. |
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Post by sid on Jun 8, 2019 11:09:42 GMT
53 used to go Plumstead to Camden Town 109 to Victoria Embankment 108 Crystal Palce to Bromley By Bow( Seven Stars) 54 Woolwich to Croydon 12 Park Royal/ Harlesden to South Croydon London's longest Route 726 ( now X26) Heathrow to Gravesend 88 Acton Green to Banstead Happy Days Didn’t the 53 also used to run from Erith in the early days? Remember the current 53 is actually the former 53A and the “main” 53 used to run via New Charlton & Greenwich while the 53 runs via Charlton Village & Blackheath and i think the Original 53 in the 1930s and 40s ran to Erith. The 54 cutback was also a mistake at the time even supporters of the tram were against this cutback. I think the 171 cutback is even worse than the 53, the 171 is a handy cross river route, I honestly wonder if anyone sane runs TfL, they refuse to give the lengthy commuter routes like the 18, 25, 53 & 109 express routes yet the 140 will gain an express version. The 54 was a bad move, it would have been better to cut the 289 instead. I think the 171 should still go to Holborn during peak hours but it really isn't needed off peak, the 68 duplicates it all the way to Camberwell Green and is more than adequate outside of peak hours. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 8, 2019 12:03:55 GMT
The 25 is actually more justifiable being cut back to City Thameslink because the 25 does actually parallel CrossRail from Ilford to the West End. However that said I don’t agree with it being cut back because there are a lot of low income workers who rely on buses to get them to Central London from the middle/outer suburbs and many of them Won’t transfer to the fancy new line because they’ll want to save money. We need another mayor who actually valued buses and their commuters and Ken Livingstone (much as I dislike him) was that mayor This is probably more appropriate in the Central London section but anyway the 25 has been cut back before the opening of Crossrail which is a bit ridiculous although it was inevitable that it would be once it opened. I'm afraid I don't think this 'low income workers' argument stacks up, TfL were never going to put a nice new railway line through Central London and still fund a parrelel bus service for cheapskates. The journey is still doable by bus with a change if the 25 was curtailed at the more logical Holborn Station. I find your comment about calling people cheapskates simply because they choose the bus over the tube or rail extremely offensive - clearly, you see low paid people like myself as having no valuable contribution at all and that public transport should be closed off to us as a result. |
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Post by sid on Jun 8, 2019 12:24:08 GMT
This is probably more appropriate in the Central London section but anyway the 25 has been cut back before the opening of Crossrail which is a bit ridiculous although it was inevitable that it would be once it opened. I'm afraid I don't think this 'low income workers' argument stacks up, TfL were never going to put a nice new railway line through Central London and still fund a parrelel bus service for cheapskates. The journey is still doable by bus with a change if the 25 was curtailed at the more logical Holborn Station. I find your comment about calling people cheapskates simply because they choose the bus over the tube or rail extremely offensive - clearly, you see low paid people like myself as having no valuable contribution at all and that public transport should be closed off to us as a result. Seriously if somebody can't afford the fare to work they need to look for another job or ask for a pay rise. I haven't said anything about you or anybody else having no valuable contribution whatever that means. You will only get buses running in direct competition with major rail lines in a deregulated environment. |
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Post by route53 on Jun 8, 2019 12:33:56 GMT
The fact is low income workers do often travel from far distances, even middle income workers opt for a cheaper option, plenty of those workers get on at leafy middle class Blackheath & Shooters Hill.
Trains are ridiculously expensive for very little in return, look at South Eastern, the trains are old yet the fares are expensive, so low & middle income commuters will opt for trunk routes like the 53.
There’s an attitude in recent years in London that low and middle income workers don’t count while wealthier people seem to get all the perks.
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Post by route53 on Jun 8, 2019 12:38:27 GMT
I find your comment about calling people cheapskates simply because they choose the bus over the tube or rail extremely offensive - clearly, you see low paid people like myself as having no valuable contribution at all and that public transport should be closed off to us as a result. Seriously if somebody can't afford the fare to work they need to look for another job or ask for a pay rise. I haven't said anything about you or anybody else having no valuable contribution whatever that means. You will only get buses running in direct competition with major rail lines in a deregulated environment. As someone who has been on a low/middle income job, it’s not that simple to find a new job, that can take months to find the right one and salaries have stagnated whole cost of living has gone up Anyway I had an idea regarding an X109, it could start at either Coulsdon/Purley or New Addington, all stops to West Croydon non stop to Streatham then all stops to Brixton |
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Post by sid on Jun 8, 2019 12:43:27 GMT
Seriously if somebody can't afford the fare to work they need to look for another job or ask for a pay rise. I haven't said anything about you or anybody else having no valuable contribution whatever that means. You will only get buses running in direct competition with major rail lines in a deregulated environment. As someone who has been on a low/middle income job, it’s not that simple to find a new job, that can take months to find the right one and salaries have stagnated whole cost of living has gone up. Without getting too far off topic here people are basically complaining that they can no longer travel from Ilford to Oxford Circus for £1.50. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 12:57:35 GMT
The 25 is actually more justifiable being cut back to City Thameslink because the 25 does actually parallel CrossRail from Ilford to the West End. However that said I don’t agree with it being cut back because there are a lot of low income workers who rely on buses to get them to Central London from the middle/outer suburbs and many of them Won’t transfer to the fancy new line because they’ll want to save money. We need another mayor who actually valued buses and their commuters and Ken Livingstone (much as I dislike him) was that mayor This is probably more appropriate in the Central London section but anyway the 25 has been cut back before the opening of Crossrail which is a bit ridiculous although it was inevitable that it would be once it opened. I'm afraid I don't think this 'low income workers' argument stacks up, TfL were never going to put a nice new railway line through Central London and still fund a parrelel bus service for cheapskates. The journey is still doable by bus with a change if the 25 was curtailed at the more logical Holborn Station. You taking the mick now calling people cheapskates!! The difference in fares could me no lunch for some workers. Makes me laught you always quick to defend east London cuts but quick to moan about the 47 being cut to 20 mins on a Sunday!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 13:04:37 GMT
As someone who has been on a low/middle income job, it’s not that simple to find a new job, that can take months to find the right one and salaries have stagnated whole cost of living has gone up. Without getting too far off topic here people are basically complaining that they can no longer travel from Ilford to Oxford Circus for £1.50. Yes we are and what point you making ? Bet if it was a south London route it would be different. |
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Post by sid on Jun 8, 2019 13:11:41 GMT
This is probably more appropriate in the Central London section but anyway the 25 has been cut back before the opening of Crossrail which is a bit ridiculous although it was inevitable that it would be once it opened. I'm afraid I don't think this 'low income workers' argument stacks up, TfL were never going to put a nice new railway line through Central London and still fund a parrelel bus service for cheapskates. The journey is still doable by bus with a change if the 25 was curtailed at the more logical Holborn Station. You taking the mick now calling people cheapskates!! The difference in fares could me no lunch for some workers. Makes me laught you always quick to defend east London cuts but quick to moan about the 47 being cut to 20 mins on a Sunday!! Did anybody seriously expect the 25 to still go to Oxford Circus once Crossrail opened? No lunch? I'll get the violins out in a minute😲 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 14:23:34 GMT
You taking the mick now calling people cheapskates!! The difference in fares could me no lunch for some workers. Makes me laught you always quick to defend east London cuts but quick to moan about the 47 being cut to 20 mins on a Sunday!! Did anybody seriously expect the 25 to still go to Oxford Circus once Crossrail opened? No lunch? I'll get the violins out in a minute😲 You have no idea what it's like living on the bread line. Not going to go off topic any further. |
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Post by sid on Jun 8, 2019 14:38:07 GMT
Did anybody seriously expect the 25 to still go to Oxford Circus once Crossrail opened? No lunch? I'll get the violins out in a minute😲 You have no idea what it's like living on the bread line. No going to go off topic any further. So why start talking tripe in the first place? You know absolutely nothing about me.
Getting back to topic what would most people prefer................Crossrail or the 25 left going to Oxford Circus? You can't have both!
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