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Post by vjaska on May 5, 2019 22:25:46 GMT
I don't think the 380 can take deckers as there are a number of narrow roads along the route. 380 user here - will back you up on that, vjaska. Problem area for me is the back streets between Charlton Station and Charlton Village. Knew you would know better than me   |
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Post by sid on May 6, 2019 8:06:34 GMT
You say this, but also propose the 161 is cut back to Woolwich? This proposal also breaks links from part of Woolwich Road to people's nearest Tube at North Greenwich and to be honest, the capacity is required - both the 161 and 472 fill up at North Greenwich in the evening peak. The 161 is too circuitous for it to be a proper tube feeder route, especially now the 132 is much faster between Eltham & NG, another route could replace the NG to Woolwich section of the 161, so that Woolwich Road maintains its links to NG. Regarding the new proposed route 335 it should be routes via Blackheath Standard and Charlton Village, and not be some private, personal express route for the Kidbrooke Village residents, makes no sense in having such a short route having an express section, 132 has this because it is a longer route. I agree about the 161, it's only really a tube feeder service between Woolwich and NG and could be replaced by something else such as the new 301. It also avoids the 161 having to take an awkward route through Woolwich town centre. |
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Post by route53 on May 6, 2019 11:39:20 GMT
The 161 is too circuitous for it to be a proper tube feeder route, especially now the 132 is much faster between Eltham & NG, another route could replace the NG to Woolwich section of the 161, so that Woolwich Road maintains its links to NG. Regarding the new proposed route 335 it should be routes via Blackheath Standard and Charlton Village, and not be some private, personal express route for the Kidbrooke Village residents, makes no sense in having such a short route having an express section, 132 has this because it is a longer route. I agree about the 161, it's only really a tube feeder service between Woolwich and NG and could be replaced by something else such as the new 301. It also avoids the 161 having to take an awkward route through Woolwich town centre. Yes the 301 would be perfect for this, though ideally the 335 should be doing this route, but it looks like the yuppies of the City demand their personal express feeder from Kidbrooke Village to NG, honestly if the 335 does indeed become an express service then there isn’t any reason why the X53 can’t return, and there’s far more demand for that since there aren’t any alternative tube lines into the centre, it does seem that thanks to the rerouting of the 53 eastbound via the Bricklayer’s Arma Flyover, TfL is at least acknowledging that this corridor needs to be sped up. Greenwich Cutty Sark area will be going through changes in the next few years, I doubt there’ll be many buses terminating there, how feasible would it be if the 286 were extended to Surrey Quays or Canada Water? This will again create new and much needed links across the region, and the 286 also needs to be double decked? It gets very busy in the Greenwich to Avery Hill section. The 380 going double decker would be ideal right now, especially since it closely parallels its parent route the 180 which is soon going to be cut back and rerouted to NG for some bizarre reason, it may need to be rerouted in some sections where double decks can’t go through. |
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Post by twobellstogo on May 6, 2019 16:28:37 GMT
I agree about the 161, it's only really a tube feeder service between Woolwich and NG and could be replaced by something else such as the new 301. It also avoids the 161 having to take an awkward route through Woolwich town centre. Yes the 301 would be perfect for this, though ideally the 335 should be doing this route, but it looks like the yuppies of the City demand their personal express feeder from Kidbrooke Village to NG, honestly if the 335 does indeed become an express service then there isn’t any reason why the X53 can’t return, and there’s far more demand for that since there aren’t any alternative tube lines into the centre, it does seem that thanks to the rerouting of the 53 eastbound via the Bricklayer’s Arma Flyover, TfL is at least acknowledging that this corridor needs to be sped up. Greenwich Cutty Sark area will be going through changes in the next few years, I doubt there’ll be many buses terminating there, how feasible would it be if the 286 were extended to Surrey Quays or Canada Water? This will again create new and much needed links across the region, and the 286 also needs to be double decked? It gets very busy in the Greenwich to Avery Hill section. The 380 going double decker would be ideal right now, especially since it closely parallels its parent route the 180 which is soon going to be cut back and rerouted to NG for some bizarre reason, it may need to be rerouted in some sections where double decks can’t go through. You’re going to hate me, but I disagree pretty much with all of that. - there is no need for an X53 in my opinion. - the 286 can’t take double deckers on a regular basis because of the Queen Mary’s Hospital loop (the rogue double decks don’t cover this loop), and before you ask, it’s surprisingly well patronised. 286 is probably long enough as it stands - wouldn’t extend it further. - the 380 serves some otherwise unbussed parts of Charlton - it’s well patronised. Rerouting it just so it could take double decks would be inconvenient for these passengers. The case for double decks on the 380 is weaker than for some other services. - Kidbrooke, even in its more gentrified state, is not all yuppies! |
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Post by beaver14uk on May 6, 2019 18:16:20 GMT
286 had decker the other day Yes the 301 would be perfect for this, though ideally the 335 should be doing this route, but it looks like the yuppies of the City demand their personal express feeder from Kidbrooke Village to NG, honestly if the 335 does indeed become an express service then there isn’t any reason why the X53 can’t return, and there’s far more demand for that since there aren’t any alternative tube lines into the centre, it does seem that thanks to the rerouting of the 53 eastbound via the Bricklayer’s Arma Flyover, TfL is at least acknowledging that this corridor needs to be sped up. Greenwich Cutty Sark area will be going through changes in the next few years, I doubt there’ll be many buses terminating there, how feasible would it be if the 286 were extended to Surrey Quays or Canada Water? This will again create new and much needed links across the region, and the 286 also needs to be double decked? It gets very busy in the Greenwich to Avery Hill section. The 380 going double decker would be ideal right now, especially since it closely parallels its parent route the 180 which is soon going to be cut back and rerouted to NG for some bizarre reason, it may need to be rerouted in some sections where double decks can’t go through. You’re going to hate me, but I disagree pretty much with all of that. - there is no need for an X53 in my opinion. - the 286 can’t take double deckers on a regular basis because of the Queen Mary’s Hospital loop (the rogue double decks don’t cover this loop), and before you ask, it’s surprisingly well patronised. 286 is probably long enough as it stands - wouldn’t extend it further. - the 380 serves some otherwise unbussed parts of Charlton - it’s well patronised. Rerouting it just so it could take double decks would be inconvenient for these passengers. The case for double decks on the 380 is weaker than for some other services. - Kidbrooke, even in its more gentrified state, is not all yuppies! |
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Post by route53 on May 6, 2019 18:26:41 GMT
286 had decker the other day You’re going to hate me, but I disagree pretty much with all of that. - there is no need for an X53 in my opinion. - the 286 can’t take double deckers on a regular basis because of the Queen Mary’s Hospital loop (the rogue double decks don’t cover this loop), and before you ask, it’s surprisingly well patronised. 286 is probably long enough as it stands - wouldn’t extend it further. - the 380 serves some otherwise unbussed parts of Charlton - it’s well patronised. Rerouting it just so it could take double decks would be inconvenient for these passengers. The case for double decks on the 380 is weaker than for some other services. - Kidbrooke, even in its more gentrified state, is not all yuppies! I’ve often seen double decked 286’s, especially in the peaks, but occasionally off peak too, I think they’re testing double decks on that route to see if it’s feasible and I think the 286 does need it. |
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Post by route53 on May 6, 2019 18:32:41 GMT
Yes the 301 would be perfect for this, though ideally the 335 should be doing this route, but it looks like the yuppies of the City demand their personal express feeder from Kidbrooke Village to NG, honestly if the 335 does indeed become an express service then there isn’t any reason why the X53 can’t return, and there’s far more demand for that since there aren’t any alternative tube lines into the centre, it does seem that thanks to the rerouting of the 53 eastbound via the Bricklayer’s Arma Flyover, TfL is at least acknowledging that this corridor needs to be sped up. Greenwich Cutty Sark area will be going through changes in the next few years, I doubt there’ll be many buses terminating there, how feasible would it be if the 286 were extended to Surrey Quays or Canada Water? This will again create new and much needed links across the region, and the 286 also needs to be double decked? It gets very busy in the Greenwich to Avery Hill section. The 380 going double decker would be ideal right now, especially since it closely parallels its parent route the 180 which is soon going to be cut back and rerouted to NG for some bizarre reason, it may need to be rerouted in some sections where double decks can’t go through. You’re going to hate me, but I disagree pretty much with all of that. - there is no need for an X53 in my opinion. - the 286 can’t take double deckers on a regular basis because of the Queen Mary’s Hospital loop (the rogue double decks don’t cover this loop), and before you ask, it’s surprisingly well patronised. 286 is probably long enough as it stands - wouldn’t extend it further. - the 380 serves some otherwise unbussed parts of Charlton - it’s well patronised. Rerouting it just so it could take double decks would be inconvenient for these passengers. The case for double decks on the 380 is weaker than for some other services. - Kidbrooke, even in its more gentrified state, is not all yuppies! Hate you for disagreeing with me? I don’t even know yet :-) Your points on the 380 are spot on, I was going add your points into my post but forgot. My yuppie point was a joke :-D, at least partially, Kidbrooke Village will be used as a back up option for those who can’t quite afford Blackheath or Greenwich so it may draw in those crowds. X53 I think is needed, peaks only if anything, however I would settle for a restructured 53 in which some the section between New Cross and Elephant & Castle was sped up, even missing a couple of stops, the 453, among other buses cover this section quite well, at least eastbound 53’s are “semi-express”, but this is all just a fantasy of mine :-) |
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Post by twobellstogo on May 6, 2019 18:52:37 GMT
286 had decker the other day You’re going to hate me, but I disagree pretty much with all of that. - there is no need for an X53 in my opinion. - the 286 can’t take double deckers on a regular basis because of the Queen Mary’s Hospital loop (the rogue double decks don’t cover this loop), and before you ask, it’s surprisingly well patronised. 286 is probably long enough as it stands - wouldn’t extend it further. - the 380 serves some otherwise unbussed parts of Charlton - it’s well patronised. Rerouting it just so it could take double decks would be inconvenient for these passengers. The case for double decks on the 380 is weaker than for some other services. - Kidbrooke, even in its more gentrified state, is not all yuppies! 🙂 but they don’t do the loop at QMH. |
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Post by danorak on May 6, 2019 19:27:24 GMT
286 had decker the other day 🙂 but they don’t do the loop at QMH. I'm assuming this is because of overhanging trees, rather than anything more significant - it didn't look like something that couldn't be addressed if necessary on a quick Google map wander. But I agree you need to continue serving the loop, particularly with the new cancer centre. |
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Post by sid on May 6, 2019 19:34:28 GMT
I agree about the 161, it's only really a tube feeder service between Woolwich and NG and could be replaced by something else such as the new 301. It also avoids the 161 having to take an awkward route through Woolwich town centre. Yes the 301 would be perfect for this, though ideally the 335 should be doing this route, but it looks like the yuppies of the City demand their personal express feeder from Kidbrooke Village to NG, honestly if the 335 does indeed become an express service then there isn’t any reason why the X53 can’t return, and there’s far more demand for that since there aren’t any alternative tube lines into the centre, it does seem that thanks to the rerouting of the 53 eastbound via the Bricklayer’s Arma Flyover, TfL is at least acknowledging that this corridor needs to be sped up. Greenwich Cutty Sark area will be going through changes in the next few years, I doubt there’ll be many buses terminating there, how feasible would it be if the 286 were extended to Surrey Quays or Canada Water? This will again create new and much needed links across the region, and the 286 also needs to be double decked? It gets very busy in the Greenwich to Avery Hill section. The 380 going double decker would be ideal right now, especially since it closely parallels its parent route the 180 which is soon going to be cut back and rerouted to NG for some bizarre reason, it may need to be rerouted in some sections where double decks can’t go through. I can't see any chance of the X53 returning, it was deemed superfluous when the JLE was opened let alone Crossrail. Interesting idea about running it non stop from New Cross to Elephant & Castle. I've thought for a long time that the 286 should be double decked, the tree problem at QMH isn't an insurmountable one. I guess it will have to be extended somewhere when the road layout changes in Greenwich. |
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Post by beaver14uk on May 6, 2019 19:34:56 GMT
Not official if they run them
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Post by sid on May 6, 2019 20:00:03 GMT
286 had decker the other day I’ve often seen double decked 286’s, especially in the peaks, but occasionally off peak too, I think they’re testing double decks on that route to see if it’s feasible and I think the 286 does need it. It just happens when they haven't got enough single deckers. |
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Post by busman on May 6, 2019 21:52:57 GMT
- More Cross South London routes, perhaps a bus route from Greenwich to Camberwell or even to Brixton for example - more North/South routes in the Greenwich borough, for instance a bus route from Thamesmead to Eltham or Kidbrooke Village which avoids Woolwich - Extend the 129 further to Catford then either to Beckenham or Forest Hill - Keep the 180 at Lewisham - Keep the 53 at Whitehall at least - 320 restored to Bromley to Biggin Hill only, - 227 extended to Streatham, more SE to SW links are needed, swap the 227 and the 358 in the Shortlands area so the 227 can run double deck buses, this route is very busy - Restore the Forest Hill section of the 194 - 472 extended to Erith Quarry instead of 180 - 202 extended to North Greenwich - 161 curtailed at Woolwich, the 132 offers a much quicker and more direct journey to North Greenwich from Eltham, maybe the 161 could be rerouted to Thamesmead - New orbital or semi orbital express route, perhaps a Bluewater to Croydon service similar to the old 726 Great suggestions! I especially like the idea of orbital express routes. I would have the following new routes in addition to the X26: A) Bluewater - Romford - Chingford - Enfield B) Enfield - Barnet - Edgware - Uxbridge C) West Croydon - Bromley - Orpington - Bluewater |
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Post by route53 on May 7, 2019 1:13:32 GMT
Yes the 301 would be perfect for this, though ideally the 335 should be doing this route, but it looks like the yuppies of the City demand their personal express feeder from Kidbrooke Village to NG, honestly if the 335 does indeed become an express service then there isn’t any reason why the X53 can’t return, and there’s far more demand for that since there aren’t any alternative tube lines into the centre, it does seem that thanks to the rerouting of the 53 eastbound via the Bricklayer’s Arma Flyover, TfL is at least acknowledging that this corridor needs to be sped up. Greenwich Cutty Sark area will be going through changes in the next few years, I doubt there’ll be many buses terminating there, how feasible would it be if the 286 were extended to Surrey Quays or Canada Water? This will again create new and much needed links across the region, and the 286 also needs to be double decked? It gets very busy in the Greenwich to Avery Hill section. The 380 going double decker would be ideal right now, especially since it closely parallels its parent route the 180 which is soon going to be cut back and rerouted to NG for some bizarre reason, it may need to be rerouted in some sections where double decks can’t go through. I can't see any chance of the X53 returning, it was deemed superfluous when the JLE was opened let alone Crossrail. Interesting idea about running it non stop from New Cross to Elephant & Castle. I've thought for a long time that the 286 should be double decked, the tree problem at QMH isn't an insurmountable one. I guess it will have to be extended somewhere when the road layout changes in Greenwich. The 53 section between NXG & E&C is covered by many other bus routes, particularly the 453, however I’m sure once the Bakerloo is extended to Lewisham via the OKR, those in power will do their darnedest to degrade the 53 further, thankfully a fair few influential people live along the 53 route. Short of the 286 being rerouted to NG or extended to Lewisham, both options are over-bused, I think Surrey Quays would work as it would create a new connection, or a former one if you will, I’ve heard of the former routes 70 & 228 in which they both used to serve Surrey Quays-Greenwich-Eltham corridor many years ago |
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Post by rif153 on May 7, 2019 6:21:31 GMT
I can't see any chance of the X53 returning, it was deemed superfluous when the JLE was opened let alone Crossrail. Interesting idea about running it non stop from New Cross to Elephant & Castle. I've thought for a long time that the 286 should be double decked, the tree problem at QMH isn't an insurmountable one. I guess it will have to be extended somewhere when the road layout changes in Greenwich. The 53 section between NXG & E&C is covered by many other bus routes, particularly the 453, however I’m sure once the Bakerloo is extended to Lewisham via the OKR, those in power will do their darnedest to degrade the 53 further, thankfully a fair few influential people live along the 53 route. Short of the 286 being rerouted to NG or extended to Lewisham, both options are over-bused, I think Surrey Quays would work as it would create a new connection, or a former one if you will, I’ve heard of the former routes 70 & 228 in which they both used to serve Surrey Quays-Greenwich-Eltham corridor many years ago The Bakerloo Line extension happening - dream on. I do agree it’ll be used as an excuse to cut the 53 if it ever happens but as for influential people living along the route, they can’t have that strong an influence of TFL are getting away with cutting the 53 back to Lower Marsh and reducing the frequency |
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