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Post by sid on May 8, 2019 9:48:47 GMT
- More Cross South London routes, perhaps a bus route from Greenwich to Camberwell or even to Brixton for example - more North/South routes in the Greenwich borough, for instance a bus route from Thamesmead to Eltham or Kidbrooke Village which avoids Woolwich - Extend the 129 further to Catford then either to Beckenham or Forest Hill - Keep the 180 at Lewisham - Keep the 53 at Whitehall at least - 320 restored to Bromley to Biggin Hill only, - 227 extended to Streatham, more SE to SW links are needed, swap the 227 and the 358 in the Shortlands area so the 227 can run double deck buses, this route is very busy - Restore the Forest Hill section of the 194 - 472 extended to Erith Quarry instead of 180 - 202 extended to North Greenwich - 161 curtailed at Woolwich, the 132 offers a much quicker and more direct journey to North Greenwich from Eltham, maybe the 161 could be rerouted to Thamesmead - New orbital or semi orbital express route, perhaps a Bluewater to Croydon service similar to the old 726 Great suggestions! I especially like the idea of orbital express routes. I would have the following new routes in addition to the X26: A) Bluewater - Romford - Chingford - Enfield B) Enfield - Barnet - Edgware - Uxbridge C) West Croydon - Bromley - Orpington - Bluewater If the eastern end of the old 726 ever was to be revived I suspect it would be Bluewater to Beckenham Junction or Elmers End as TfL wouldn't want it taking custom away from Tramlink. |
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Post by rugbyref on May 8, 2019 9:52:53 GMT
Option C works, as there is no tramlink from West Croydon to Bromley. Route could go West Croydon, West Wickham, Hayes, Bromley, Orpington, Bluewater.
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Post by sid on May 8, 2019 10:09:59 GMT
Option C works, as there is no tramlink from West Croydon to Bromley. Route could go West Croydon, West Wickham, Hayes, Bromley, Orpington, Bluewater. It would be duplicating a lot of the 119 route so a bit of a non starter I'm afraid. If it went that way then straight across Hayes Common to Orpington would be better avoiding Bromley completely. |
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Post by rugbyref on May 8, 2019 10:18:41 GMT
Option C works, as there is no tramlink from West Croydon to Bromley. Route could go West Croydon, West Wickham, Hayes, Bromley, Orpington, Bluewater. It would be duplicating a lot of the 119 route so a bit of a non starter I'm afraid. If it went that way then straight across Hayes Common to Orpington would be better avoiding Bromley completely. Isn’t the concept an express route with limited stops? If so, 119 will pick up the intermediate traffic and the new route take the longer distance travellers? |
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Post by sid on May 8, 2019 12:52:00 GMT
It would be duplicating a lot of the 119 route so a bit of a non starter I'm afraid. If it went that way then straight across Hayes Common to Orpington would be better avoiding Bromley completely. Isn’t the concept an express route with limited stops? If so, 119 will pick up the intermediate traffic and the new route take the longer distance travellers? TfL would say that the existing 119 service was perfectly adequate and express services really need to be using the most direct route. I think Beckenham Junction to Bluewater mainly via the old 726 route is as good as it would get. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 19:48:07 GMT
Option C works, as there is no tramlink from West Croydon to Bromley. Route could go West Croydon, West Wickham, Hayes, Bromley, Orpington, Bluewater. I'm sure Arriva would be thrilled with this idea, given the 477 between Orpington and Bluewater would take a big hit. |
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Post by Gellico on May 8, 2019 20:57:14 GMT
I would extend the N21 to Crayford OR make a proper N472 utilising the 472/301/422/96 - the purpose to create better links for the fast growing Gravesend area, you get a lot of people asking for Crayford on the N89/N21 and Dartford has a decent night scene which is at the will of minicabs entirely. Also if and or when crossrail open this of course will provide better links and act as a night service along the line with connections for the Jub. Also much of the area the 301 and 422 cover around Upper Belvedere are a considerable distance from any current night services.
Extending the 227 to Streatham I think is a brilliant idea. Also Woolwich to Bromley requires a change at Eltham where there are 4 buses doing this! An extension, possibly even a fast run from Eltham Station to Woowlwich on the 126 could go down a treat. Huge numbers use the 132 to connect to Jub from Eltham and if crossrail and a faster bus could offer a considerably faster trip then people may travel from Z4 so more money in the long run...
Also I would radically overhaul Erith Buses. Cut the 428 all together and extend the 469 to Crayford along the 428, the 469 used to run to Bheath so before anyone says it makes the route to long, it doesn't. The B12 I would really send around the houses to serve the Quarry development, I do not see the point of the 180 doing this as anyone with a brain cell would just walk down to get a 99 to Woolwich. I don't really know what to do with this 180 extension, persoanlly I say don't bother really, it's overbussing the section unless it was made fast from Erith to Abbey Wood which of course won't happen.
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Post by vjaska on May 8, 2019 22:50:48 GMT
I would extend the N21 to Crayford OR make a proper N472 utilising the 472/301/422/96 - the purpose to create better links for the fast growing Gravesend area, you get a lot of people asking for Crayford on the N89/N21 and Dartford has a decent night scene which is at the will of minicabs entirely. Also if and or when crossrail open this of course will provide better links and act as a night service along the line with connections for the Jub. Also much of the area the 301 and 422 cover around Upper Belvedere are a considerable distance from any current night services. Extending the 227 to Streatham I think is a brilliant idea. Also Woolwich to Bromley requires a change at Eltham where there are 4 buses doing this! An extension, possibly even a fast run from Eltham Station to Woowlwich on the 126 could go down a treat. Huge numbers use the 132 to connect to Jub from Eltham and if crossrail and a faster bus could offer a considerably faster trip then people may travel from Z4 so more money in the long run... Also I would radically overhaul Erith Buses. Cut the 428 all together and extend the 469 to Crayford along the 428, the 469 used to run to Bheath so before anyone says it makes the route to long, it doesn't. The B12 I would really send around the houses to serve the Quarry development, I do not see the point of the 180 doing this as anyone with a brain cell would just walk down to get a 99 to Woolwich. I don't really know what to do with this 180 extension, persoanlly I say don't bother really, it's overbussing the section unless it was made fast from Erith to Abbey Wood which of course won't happen. I'm always skeptical when people suggest extending night routes to places like Dartford due to the fact people in these area would likely get a cab if not driving plus the minicab coverage in these areas is generally so good. That said, I do think a N96 might work running from North Greenwich to Dartford. The 469 is a short route so don't think anyone suggest it would be too long - if your going to replace the 428 with it, I'd carry it on to Darent Valley Hospital at the very least to maintain a hospital link. I agree with the 227 idea as it's one I've suggested on here a few times in the past but at the same time, it's not a particularly easy to implement. For starters, there are particular bottlenecks it would run into such as at Crystal Palace where eastbound buses have to sit in a long traffic queue on Central Hill quite a bit of the time and also at the only available stand in Streatham which is on Tooting Bec Gardens, a notoriously traffic filled road. The other issue is what way you run it into Streatham - if you run it via the 249, you serve the Tesco Extra but miss out all the shopping area north of St. Leonard's Church and there is no available stand space at Streatham Hill Station (the stand would likely struggle to accommodate two 11.5m/12m buses) whilst the stand at BN is used by terminating 319's and BN buses doing changeovers. Now you could run it via the 417 which then gives it some relief as it struggles with loadings & reliability but you then lengthen the route and bring it into traffic bottlenecks such as the notorious one that usually starts on Streatham High Road just before the roads narrows - however, you do serve the main objective in Streatham which is the shopping area. |
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Post by rhys on May 9, 2019 6:11:55 GMT
I would extend the N21 to Crayford OR make a proper N472 utilising the 472/301/422/96 - the purpose to create better links for the fast growing Gravesend area, you get a lot of people asking for Crayford on the N89/N21 and Dartford has a decent night scene which is at the will of minicabs entirely. Also if and or when crossrail open this of course will provide better links and act as a night service along the line with connections for the Jub. Also much of the area the 301 and 422 cover around Upper Belvedere are a considerable distance from any current night services. Extending the 227 to Streatham I think is a brilliant idea. Also Woolwich to Bromley requires a change at Eltham where there are 4 buses doing this! An extension, possibly even a fast run from Eltham Station to Woowlwich on the 126 could go down a treat. Huge numbers use the 132 to connect to Jub from Eltham and if crossrail and a faster bus could offer a considerably faster trip then people may travel from Z4 so more money in the long run... Also I would radically overhaul Erith Buses. Cut the 428 all together and extend the 469 to Crayford along the 428, the 469 used to run to Bheath so before anyone says it makes the route to long, it doesn't. The B12 I would really send around the houses to serve the Quarry development, I do not see the point of the 180 doing this as anyone with a brain cell would just walk down to get a 99 to Woolwich. I don't really know what to do with this 180 extension, persoanlly I say don't bother really, it's overbussing the section unless it was made fast from Erith to Abbey Wood which of course won't happen. I'm always skeptical when people suggest extending night routes to places like Dartford due to the fact people in these area would likely get a cab if not driving plus the minicab coverage in these areas is generally so good. That said, I do think a N96 might work running from North Greenwich to Dartford. The 469 is a short route so don't think anyone suggest it would be too long - if your going to replace the 428 with it, I'd carry it on to Darent Valley Hospital at the very least to maintain a hospital link. I agree with the 227 idea as it's one I've suggested on here a few times in the past but at the same time, it's not a particularly easy to implement. For starters, there are particular bottlenecks it would run into such as at Crystal Palace where eastbound buses have to sit in a long traffic queue on Central Hill quite a bit of the time and also at the only available stand in Streatham which is on Tooting Bec Gardens, a notoriously traffic filled road. The other issue is what way you run it into Streatham - if you run it via the 249, you serve the Tesco Extra but miss out all the shopping area north of St. Leonard's Church and there is no available stand space at Streatham Hill Station (the stand would likely struggle to accommodate two 11.5m/12m buses) whilst the stand at BN is used by terminating 319's and BN buses doing changeovers. Now you could run it via the 417 which then gives it some relief as it struggles with loadings & reliability but you then lengthen the route and bring it into traffic bottlenecks such as the notorious one that usually starts on Streatham High Road just before the roads narrows - however, you do serve the main objective in Streatham which is the shopping area. Tooting Bec Gardens definitely isn’t the only stand available in Streatham. There’s also a stand on Ambleside Avenue, which can be accessed from the southern part of Streatham High Road. The 133s that used to dead run from Norwood to St Leonard’s Church, used to go past there. I believe it’s an official curtailment point for the 201 as well. ‘STREATHAM, AMBLESIDE AVENUE Public stand for two buses on the south side of Ambleside Avenue, commencing 58 metres north west of Gleneagle Road and extending 23 metres south east. From Herne Hill Station. Buses proceed from Streatham High Road via Gleneagle Road and Ambleside Avenue to stand, departing via Ambleside Avenue to Mitcham Lane. Set down in Gleneagle Mews, at Alighting Point (BP4065 - Ambleside Avenue, Last Stop on LOR: 20970 - Becmead Avenue) and pick up in Mitcham Lane, at Stop ST (12802 - Streatham / St Leonard's Church, First Stop on LOR: 12802 - Streatham / St Leonard's Church). From Morden Station. Buses proceed from Mitcham Lane via Streatham High Road, Gleneagle Road and Ambleside Avenue to stand, departing via Ambleside Avenue to Mitcham Lane. Set down in Mitcham Lane, at Stop ST (12802 - Streatham / St Leonard's Church, Last Stop on LOR: 12802 - Streatham / St Leonard's Church) and pick up in Mitcham Lane, at Stop SM (12805 - Ambleside Avenue, First Stop on LOR: 12805 - Ambleside Avenue). AVAILABILITY: OPERATING RESTRICTIONS: MEAL RELIEFS: FERRY VEHICLES: BLIND DISPLAY: At any time. Unscheduled curtailments only No meal relief vehicles to stand at any time. No ferry vehicles to park on stand at any time. Streatham, St Leonard's Church.’ |
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Post by lwldriver on May 9, 2019 7:45:11 GMT
Agree about extending route 202 to North Greenwich to provide a direct link to Lee. Extending Route 63 to Honor Oak Park is often requested. Where would it stand at Honor Oak Park though? I'd imagine Brockley Rise is out of the question as there always seems to be insufficient space for the 172 & P12 to stand? Parking is sufficient providing some of the narrow-minded car drivers that use the restaurants and shops don't block the bus stands there, unlike last night where two cars were parking causing a P12 to block the road temporarily. |
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Post by sid on May 9, 2019 7:53:46 GMT
Where would it stand at Honor Oak Park though? I'd imagine Brockley Rise is out of the question as there always seems to be insufficient space for the 172 & P12 to stand? Parking is sufficient providing some of the narrow-minded car drivers that use the restaurants and shops don't block the bus stands there, unlike last night where two cars were parking causing a P12 to block the road temporarily. Twas always thus at that stand, I can remember as far back as the peak hour 36A with RM's having to double park! |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 7:55:17 GMT
Regarding night travel in Dartford.
Arriva tried with a night service over the 480. Needless to say it was pulled. But they didn’t really look in the right places.
My preference would be a route from Gravesend to Erith. Via Ebbsfleet International, Swanscombe, Greenhithe, Bluewater, Darenth Valley Hospital, Dartford, Crayford, Bexleyheath, Belvedere, Erith.
I would extend the operating hours of Fastrack A , so it runs earlier in the morning and later in the evening.
There are many areas of industry who employ shift workers covered in all those areas above, with social usage at Bluewater, Gravesend, Dartford and Bexleyheath.
Last train from C London gets to Dartford around 0130 , and the first depart around 0440.
If the buses were timed to connect with the N89 at Erith , or (preferably both) the N21 at Bexleyheath then it opens up more options.
The demand is certainly there for early morning shift workers daily, At the moment, on Sunday’s for example, Arriva run early journeys on the 490 and Fastrack B. The trips from Gravesend towards Dartford are very well used with decent numbers transferring onto the 96 or SE trains for onward travel west.
So I think this area is exceptional in respect of having a big population, of “blue collar” and public sector shift workers, plus a decent night scene, who at the moment are left out of the night public transport service, simply because of the invisible boundary between Kent and the London Borough of Bexleyheath.
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Post by sid on May 9, 2019 8:53:24 GMT
I can't see any chance of the X53 returning, it was deemed superfluous when the JLE was opened let alone Crossrail. Interesting idea about running it non stop from New Cross to Elephant & Castle. I've thought for a long time that the 286 should be double decked, the tree problem at QMH isn't an insurmountable one. I guess it will have to be extended somewhere when the road layout changes in Greenwich. The 53 section between NXG & E&C is covered by many other bus routes, particularly the 453, however I’m sure once the Bakerloo is extended to Lewisham via the OKR, those in power will do their darnedest to degrade the 53 further, thankfully a fair few influential people live along the 53 route. Short of the 286 being rerouted to NG or extended to Lewisham, both options are over-bused, I think Surrey Quays would work as it would create a new connection, or a former one if you will, I’ve heard of the former routes 70 & 228 in which they both used to serve Surrey Quays-Greenwich-Eltham corridor many years ago One option for the 286 would be to extend it to Canada Water replacing the 199. The 129 could then be extended beyond Lewisham to Bromley replacing that section of the 199 and 320 although stand space in Bromley is scarce and leave the 180 as it is now. The 47 provides very similar links to the 199 although the round the corner Creek Road/South Street link is lost. |
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Post by vjaska on May 9, 2019 11:38:31 GMT
I'm always skeptical when people suggest extending night routes to places like Dartford due to the fact people in these area would likely get a cab if not driving plus the minicab coverage in these areas is generally so good. That said, I do think a N96 might work running from North Greenwich to Dartford. The 469 is a short route so don't think anyone suggest it would be too long - if your going to replace the 428 with it, I'd carry it on to Darent Valley Hospital at the very least to maintain a hospital link. I agree with the 227 idea as it's one I've suggested on here a few times in the past but at the same time, it's not a particularly easy to implement. For starters, there are particular bottlenecks it would run into such as at Crystal Palace where eastbound buses have to sit in a long traffic queue on Central Hill quite a bit of the time and also at the only available stand in Streatham which is on Tooting Bec Gardens, a notoriously traffic filled road. The other issue is what way you run it into Streatham - if you run it via the 249, you serve the Tesco Extra but miss out all the shopping area north of St. Leonard's Church and there is no available stand space at Streatham Hill Station (the stand would likely struggle to accommodate two 11.5m/12m buses) whilst the stand at BN is used by terminating 319's and BN buses doing changeovers. Now you could run it via the 417 which then gives it some relief as it struggles with loadings & reliability but you then lengthen the route and bring it into traffic bottlenecks such as the notorious one that usually starts on Streatham High Road just before the roads narrows - however, you do serve the main objective in Streatham which is the shopping area. Tooting Bec Gardens definitely isn’t the only stand available in Streatham. There’s also a stand on Ambleside Avenue, which can be accessed from the southern part of Streatham High Road. The 133s that used to dead run from Norwood to St Leonard’s Church, used to go past there. I believe it’s an official curtailment point for the 201 as well. ‘STREATHAM, AMBLESIDE AVENUE Public stand for two buses on the south side of Ambleside Avenue, commencing 58 metres north west of Gleneagle Road and extending 23 metres south east. From Herne Hill Station. Buses proceed from Streatham High Road via Gleneagle Road and Ambleside Avenue to stand, departing via Ambleside Avenue to Mitcham Lane. Set down in Gleneagle Mews, at Alighting Point (BP4065 - Ambleside Avenue, Last Stop on LOR: 20970 - Becmead Avenue) and pick up in Mitcham Lane, at Stop ST (12802 - Streatham / St Leonard's Church, First Stop on LOR: 12802 - Streatham / St Leonard's Church). From Morden Station. Buses proceed from Mitcham Lane via Streatham High Road, Gleneagle Road and Ambleside Avenue to stand, departing via Ambleside Avenue to Mitcham Lane. Set down in Mitcham Lane, at Stop ST (12802 - Streatham / St Leonard's Church, Last Stop on LOR: 12802 - Streatham / St Leonard's Church) and pick up in Mitcham Lane, at Stop SM (12805 - Ambleside Avenue, First Stop on LOR: 12805 - Ambleside Avenue). AVAILABILITY: OPERATING RESTRICTIONS: MEAL RELIEFS: FERRY VEHICLES: BLIND DISPLAY: At any time. Unscheduled curtailments only No meal relief vehicles to stand at any time. No ferry vehicles to park on stand at any time. Streatham, St Leonard's Church.’ Yes, forgot about that stand but even that one probably is too small for more than one 227 plus misses out on the connection to the 57, 201 & 333 at St. Leonard's Church if run via the 249. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 14:58:14 GMT
I'm in favour of the 227 being extend west of Crystal Palace to Streatham.
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