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Post by wirewiper on Sept 17, 2023 9:18:15 GMT
Honestly getting it to Euston is a waste of money imo. OOC is certainly an okay terminus; if it has to terminate at Zone 1 it should be Paddington. I see no reason why the line has to cut across London to serve Euston specifically. And before anyone says, I don't say this because I would always get on at OOC (if I haven't moved house by the time it's built) and would want an empty train. It's just that the North should be prioritised and the London terminus sacrificed to ensure that as many Northern destinations are on HS2 as possible. But to do all that work at Euston only to turn around and say we're not going to go there anymore is a big waste of money for me ^^^ This. Plus the idea that Old Oak Common is s suitable terminus for a High Speed Line in the first place. We have been here before. When HS1 was being planned and built it was seriously suggested that it should terminate at Stratford International because "not everyone wants to go to St Pancras, it will save us money and passengers can always use the Central Line if they want to get into Central London (yes, people really did say that)". HS1 got built to St Pancras and HS2 will be built to Euston. |
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Post by VMH2537 on Sept 17, 2023 9:20:42 GMT
Honestly getting it to Euston is a waste of money imo. OOC is certainly an okay terminus; if it has to terminate at Zone 1 it should be Paddington. I see no reason why the line has to cut across London to serve Euston specifically. And before anyone says, I don't say this because I would always get on at OOC (if I haven't moved house by the time it's built) and would want an empty train. It's just that the North should be prioritised and the London terminus sacrificed to ensure that as many Northern destinations are on HS2 as possible. If it goes to Paddington, where will the capacity come from? Euston has already been dug and having buildings demolished to make way for the rail line. The whole strategic case for HS2 is to relieve capacity from the West Coast Main Line by diverting most InterCity services onto HS2, leaving room for freight and commuter lines to increase. This includes sending it to the central terminals where most users will go, yes Old Oak Common is planned to develop to an ecanomic interchange hub, but it doesn't mean all users will go there. The case will likely attract a new custom to how Stratford got developed. This is the current government to bare in mind who has no strategy in place for public transport (Inc railways) with many Tory MPs calling for tax cuts in light of next year's election manifesto. Wheather they are seen as walking dead zombies trying to cling to as much power as possible. It's not going to please the public who are mostly already against the current administration. |
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 17, 2023 9:24:49 GMT
Honestly getting it to Euston is a waste of money imo. OOC is certainly an okay terminus; if it has to terminate at Zone 1 it should be Paddington. I see no reason why the line has to cut across London to serve Euston specifically. And before anyone says, I don't say this because I would always get on at OOC (if I haven't moved house by the time it's built) and would want an empty train. It's just that the North should be prioritised and the London terminus sacrificed to ensure that as many Northern destinations are on HS2 as possible. Surely not going to Euston will negate the HS aspect. What is the point of saving 20 minutes off your journey time if it then tales an extra 30 minutes to get from OOC. It will make HS2 unattractive and condemn it to certain failure. If we are going to do something in this country, we need to ensure it is done properly, not the usual half baked offering we get in the UK. |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Sept 17, 2023 9:47:52 GMT
SILENCED, Busboy105, VMH2537 and wirewiper, I understand what you have said but maybe this should have been considered right at the start? Did nobody really say ''why on earth are we sending HS2 to Old Oak Common then back half way across London to Euston when Paddington is sitting right there?'' I understand the developments at Euston are too far gone to send it to Paddington now but some questions need to be asked about this stupidity, especially if many parts of the North don't end up connected to HS2; after all, the main purpose of HS2 was to improve links to/from the North.
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Post by wirewiper on Sept 17, 2023 10:15:43 GMT
SILENCED , Busboy105 , VMH2537 and wirewiper , I understand what you have said but maybe this should have been considered right at the start? Did nobody really say ''why on earth are we sending HS2 to Old Oak Common then back half way across London to Euston when Paddington is sitting right there?'' I understand the developments at Euston are too far gone to send it to Paddington now but some questions need to be asked about this stupidity, especially if many parts of the North don't end up connected to HS2; after all, the main purpose of HS2 was to improve links to/from the North. The only stupidity here is the government treating capital-intensive transport infrastructure investment not as a long-term strategy, but as a money tap that can be turned on and off at will. |
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 17, 2023 12:11:20 GMT
SILENCED, Busboy105, VMH2537 and wirewiper, I understand what you have said but maybe this should have been considered right at the start? Did nobody really say ''why on earth are we sending HS2 to Old Oak Common then back half way across London to Euston when Paddington is sitting right there?'' I understand the developments at Euston are too far gone to send it to Paddington now but some questions need to be asked about this stupidity, especially if many parts of the North don't end up connected to HS2; after all, the main purpose of HS2 was to improve links to/from the North. Paddington is probably the worst located of the Central London Termini. Why would you want it to go there? I imagine it would have detracted from the business case. If you were travelling on West Coast and had the choice between Paddington or Euston, I know which one I would pick, and unlikely to be HS2 and Paddington. Fortunately National Rail, or whatever they are called these days, understand you need to take people where they want to go, and not what is convenient, otherwise converting car drivers is a complete non-starter. Price is something they unfortunately have no idea about. Price of tickets to Devon this week, not happening. |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Sept 17, 2023 12:27:27 GMT
SILENCED , Busboy105 , VMH2537 and wirewiper , I understand what you have said but maybe this should have been considered right at the start? Did nobody really say ''why on earth are we sending HS2 to Old Oak Common then back half way across London to Euston when Paddington is sitting right there?'' I understand the developments at Euston are too far gone to send it to Paddington now but some questions need to be asked about this stupidity, especially if many parts of the North don't end up connected to HS2; after all, the main purpose of HS2 was to improve links to/from the North. Paddington is probably the worst located of the Central London Termini. Why would you want it to go there? I imagine it would have detracted from the business case. If you were travelling on West Coast and had the choice between Paddington or Euston, I know which one I would pick, and unlikely to be HS2 and Paddington. Fortunately National Rail, or whatever they are called these days, understand you need to take people where they want to go, and not what is convenient, otherwise converting car drivers is a complete non-starter. Price is something they unfortunately have no idea about. Price of tickets to Devon this week, not happening. How is it the worst located? The only ones with a half decent location imo are Waterloo, Liverpool Street and Charing Cross. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 17, 2023 12:45:06 GMT
Honestly getting it to Euston is a waste of money imo. OOC is certainly an okay terminus; if it has to terminate at Zone 1 it should be Paddington. I see no reason why the line has to cut across London to serve Euston specifically. And before anyone says, I don't say this because I would always get on at OOC (if I haven't moved house by the time it's built) and would want an empty train. It's just that the North should be prioritised and the London terminus sacrificed to ensure that as many Northern destinations are on HS2 as possible. Euston is the ideal terminal, especially for us in the south - it would be an absolute faff it was at Old Oak for southern travellers and Paddington is less ideal than Euston so I disagree that Euston is a waste of money. The problem with this country when it comes to transport infrastructure is they can’t be bothered to actually spend the money to get first class infrastructure in place but continually look for the cheapest or bodge poor ideas together and even then or they manage to make poor transport infrastructure cost far more |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Sept 17, 2023 13:14:31 GMT
Honestly getting it to Euston is a waste of money imo. OOC is certainly an okay terminus; if it has to terminate at Zone 1 it should be Paddington. I see no reason why the line has to cut across London to serve Euston specifically. And before anyone says, I don't say this because I would always get on at OOC (if I haven't moved house by the time it's built) and would want an empty train. It's just that the North should be prioritised and the London terminus sacrificed to ensure that as many Northern destinations are on HS2 as possible. Euston is the ideal terminal, especially for us in the south - it would be an absolute faff it was at Old Oak for southern travellers and Paddington is less ideal than Euston so I disagree that Euston is a waste of money. The problem with this country when it comes to transport infrastructure is they can’t be bothered to actually spend the money to get first class infrastructure in place but continually look for the cheapest or bodge poor ideas together and even then or they manage to make poor transport infrastructure cost far more Absolutely agree, terminating it at Old Oak Common would make the project such a waste of time and money. The entire site has been dug out. Projects such as Crossrail 2, a potential Northern Line split, the Piccadilly Line frequency increase and the Four Lines Modernisation Programme would lead to significant increases in capacity through Euston which makes it far easier to cater with the loads that a fully running HS2 would bring London. Old Oak Common could not be an any worse terminus. I’m not sure whether or not the Central Line will have an increased frequency with the New Tube for London given it already has a 35 trains per hour frequency during the peak hours (never mind, its meant to be 36 but only with a 25% capacity increase with the NtfL rolling stock). The London Overground would have to do most of the heavy work when it comes to transporting people to other railway routes into Central London, of which is a complete non starter because in particular the West London Line is already ridiculously busy for most of the day. Given how busy the Elizabeth Line is already at 24tph, whilst it can go up to 32tph (I wonder whether it could go even further to 36) I’m doubtful that could be the main passenger carrier into Central London rather than HS2 taking passengers into Euston, somewhere where there is far better connectivity to the rest of London. Of course the other benefit of running it into Euston is that there is, I believe, passive provision for an HS1-HS2 link. That would be massively helpful once the line is fully up and running, as there could be looks into international sleeper services from say, Manchester to Berlin (I know DB have had interest in running London to Berlin trains previously). Personally I think all this cutting over the past few days is only going to entice even more people in the north to vote Labour given they seem to be the only party actually passionate about completing it in its entirety. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 17, 2023 14:27:20 GMT
Honestly getting it to Euston is a waste of money imo. OOC is certainly an okay terminus; if it has to terminate at Zone 1 it should be Paddington. I see no reason why the line has to cut across London to serve Euston specifically. And before anyone says, I don't say this because I would always get on at OOC (if I haven't moved house by the time it's built) and would want an empty train. It's just that the North should be prioritised and the London terminus sacrificed to ensure that as many Northern destinations are on HS2 as possible. But that then defeats the point of HS2, I mentioned yesterday on another thread that it was pretty much faster for me to fly back from Manchester instead of using the train. If HS2 doesn't make it to Euston one end and doesn't make it to Manchester the other end and is just relegated to a shuttle between Brum and Old Oak what's the point of it even existing. Just a few more stops down the line you get Heathrow airport with a superior travel method. The argument is that airports are out of town too, but that's one of only two benefits I can think of with the train. If you lose that benefit the only benefit the train has is the lack of security checks, which aren't going to be a dealbreaker to many by this point. You either build HS2 properly or call it off, it's too late to call it off so they need to finish it. If they're not going to then it might make sense to just divert the money towards expanding the airport infrastructure instead. |
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Post by LondonExplorer316 on Sept 18, 2023 18:34:35 GMT
Honestly getting it to Euston is a waste of money imo. OOC is certainly an okay terminus; if it has to terminate at Zone 1 it should be Paddington. I see no reason why the line has to cut across London to serve Euston specifically. And before anyone says, I don't say this because I would always get on at OOC (if I haven't moved house by the time it's built) and would want an empty train. It's just that the North should be prioritised and the London terminus sacrificed to ensure that as many Northern destinations are on HS2 as possible. Absolutely not! I think Euston is the prefect station for HS2 to depart from as it is where WCML trains leave, the exact line HS2 is supposed to ease capacity on. OOC is nothing that an okay terminus is, terrible links to anywhere (very much unlike Euston), isolated (also very much unlike Euston), and not exactly anywhere near any places of interest or even facilities, with the nearest place of interest being Harlesden Jubilee Clock and the high street there. I think if they're going to cull it to OOC they might as well call it off and use the funding elsewhere. |
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Post by cardinal on Sept 21, 2023 14:48:22 GMT
Honestly getting it to Euston is a waste of money imo. OOC is certainly an okay terminus; if it has to terminate at Zone 1 it should be Paddington. I see no reason why the line has to cut across London to serve Euston specifically. And before anyone says, I don't say this because I would always get on at OOC (if I haven't moved house by the time it's built) and would want an empty train. It's just that the North should be prioritised and the London terminus sacrificed to ensure that as many Northern destinations are on HS2 as possible. Absolutely not! I think Euston is the prefect station for HS2 to depart from as it is where WCML trains leave, the exact line HS2 is supposed to ease capacity on. OOC is nothing that an okay terminus is, terrible links to anywhere (very much unlike Euston), isolated (also very much unlike Euston), and not exactly anywhere near any places of interest or even facilities, with the nearest place of interest being Harlesden Jubilee Clock and the high street there. I think if they're going to cull it to OOC they might as well call it off and use the funding elsewhere. There is a costa coffee in Harlesden now (just around the corner from the crack dealers at the bus stop where the 18 used to change drivers ) |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Sept 27, 2023 9:55:40 GMT
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Post by richard on Oct 3, 2023 19:53:31 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Oct 3, 2023 19:56:41 GMT
Stupid decision but nothing new from this government - I've heard but not if it's been confirmed that HS2 will still reach Manchester but between Birmingham & Manchester, it will use existing lines? |
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