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Post by rif153 on Apr 19, 2020 17:58:57 GMT
I mention nothing about an X105 going to Heathrow I just said that an express route that goes from Heathrow to Marble Arch via Shepherds Bush and Hammersmith aka A route running all the way from Heathrow to Marble Arch won't work at all, there's too much traffic to even consider it. The Piccadilly Line will already go from Hyde Park Corner, via Hammersmith to Heathrow Airport and you will have Crossrail from Central London soon as well. There's simply too much traffic these days and a route of that length could take hours end to end, whether it's stopping or not. The X68 might cover a similar distance, and starts in Central London. However it currently runs limited hours and if I were a betting man I'd say the route only exists because of legacy and now being too popular to remove without an uprising somewhere. A route in such form would certainly not be introduced today. On the X68, when planning express routes years ago I used to view it as a textbook example, but its unique nature shows it is quite the opposite. I would say a huge reason as to why the X68 has survived and is such a busy, valued and important route is due to how poorly served South London is by the Underground. I noticed COBO proposed express routes such as an X13, X16 and X113 but I the northern ends of all of these routes are well served by rail and I think very few people will really sit on an express bus route from Central London to Barnet or Edgware when its far faster to get the Northern Line instead. |
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Post by COBO on Apr 19, 2020 18:00:08 GMT
A route running all the way from Heathrow to Marble Arch won't work at all, there's too much traffic to even consider it. The Piccadilly Line will already go from Hyde Park Corner, via Hammersmith to Heathrow Airport and you will have Crossrail from Central London soon as well. There's simply too much traffic these days and a route of that length could take hours end to end, whether it's stopping or not. The X68 might cover a similar distance, and starts in Central London. However it currently runs limited hours and if I were a betting man I'd say the route only exists because of legacy and now being too popular to remove without an uprising somewhere. A route in such form would certainly not be introduced today. On the X68, when planning express routes years ago I used to view it as a textbook example, but its unique nature shows it is quite the opposite. I would say a huge reason as to why the X68 has survived and is such a busy, valued and important route is due to how poorly served South London is by the Underground. I noticed COBO proposed express routes such as an X13, X16 and X113 but I the northern ends of all of these routes are well served by rail and I think very few people will really sit on an express bus route from Central London to Barnet or Edgware when its far faster to get the Northern Line instead. Not everyone likes to use rail. Uxbridge, Southall, Hanwell, West Ealing, Ealing Broadway, Ealing Common and Shepherds Bush is also served by rail but the 607 is still very popular. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 19, 2020 18:00:17 GMT
A route running all the way from Heathrow to Marble Arch won't work at all, there's too much traffic to even consider it. The Piccadilly Line will already go from Hyde Park Corner, via Hammersmith to Heathrow Airport and you will have Crossrail from Central London soon as well. There's simply too much traffic these days and a route of that length could take hours end to end, whether it's stopping or not. The X68 might cover a similar distance, and starts in Central London. However it currently runs limited hours and if I were a betting man I'd say the route only exists because of legacy and now being too popular to remove without an uprising somewhere. A route in such form would certainly not be introduced today. Well you say that I think that things might and hope change after Corona lockdown. Realistically I don't see it happening, the only reason a route of that sort of length would even have a slim chance of being introduced is to link the airport with one bus. The places in-between can be accessed through other means. With air travel requiring a year to pick up again according to estimates post coronavirus the chances of this route are probably going to be less than they were before the pandemic. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 19, 2020 18:40:13 GMT
On the X68, when planning express routes years ago I used to view it as a textbook example, but its unique nature shows it is quite the opposite. I would say a huge reason as to why the X68 has survived and is such a busy, valued and important route is due to how poorly served South London is by the Underground. I noticed COBO proposed express routes such as an X13, X16 and X113 but I the northern ends of all of these routes are well served by rail and I think very few people will really sit on an express bus route from Central London to Barnet or Edgware when its far faster to get the Northern Line instead. Not everyone likes to use rail. Uxbridge, Southall, Hanwell, West Ealing, Ealing Broadway, Ealing Common and Shepherds Bush is also served by rail but the 607 is still very popular. The Uxbridge to Shepherd's Bush corridor is much, much busier like the Brixton to Streatham & Aldgate to Ilford corridors than many other places but unlike the other two examples, is far longer in length. Also, Uxbridge has no link to Ealing Broadway for example and has a number of long distance journeys compared to other corridors in London and in addition, has wide roads for a substantial section that can handle higher amounts of traffic. The only way you can realistically introduce express & limited routes in London is with much improved bus priority and a substantial reduction in congestion. The few we have still running have unique circumstances as to why they've survived. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 19, 2020 19:30:29 GMT
Arguably I would say the 109/159 corridor is busier then the 68/468 corridor that the X68 runs along and maybe the X68 should divert after breaking off at Waterloo to call at maybe Telford Avenue then all 109 stops to West Croydon.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 19, 2020 19:36:19 GMT
Arguably I would say the 109/159 corridor is busier then the 68/468 corridor that the X68 runs along and maybe the X68 should divert after breaking off at Waterloo to call at maybe Telford Avenue then all 109 stops to West Croydon. The X68 was introduced when the 68 went OPO in the 80s, there would be an outcry if it was withdrawn although it may be at risk if more people working from home reduces usage significantly? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 19, 2020 19:49:54 GMT
Iv used the X68 a few times and found it very busy. Most seats on the top deck were taken when I departed central London at about 17.45 and we got to Crown Point in less then 40 mins. No sure how many central London to West Croydon passengers there are but it certainly maintains a nice link.
I didn't realise it had started with the OPO conversion. I assumed it had started in 1994 when the 68/68A split. The 68 did surprisingly run all it journeys end-to-end. I had thought it may have latterly run as TC to Elephant and N to Euston and the 68A was just a formality.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 19, 2020 20:00:58 GMT
Iv used the X68 a few times and found it very busy. Most seats on the top deck were taken when I departed central London at about 17.45 and we got to Crown Point in less then 40 mins. No sure how many central London to West Croydon passengers there are but it certainly maintains a nice link. I didn't realise it had started with the OPO conversion. I assumed it had started in 1994 when the 68/68A split. The 68 did surprisingly run all it journeys end-to-end. I had thought it may have latterly run as TC to Elephant and N to Euston and the 68A was just a formality. The X68 has been busy whenever I've seen it although I've not seen it recently. The 68 had quite a considerable commuter usage from the Norwood area and I guess they kicked up such a stink about the OPO conversion and slower journey time that TfL introduced the express service. It had coach seated Olympians L166-171 if I recall correctly. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 19, 2020 20:13:47 GMT
I guess an all day service Monday to Fridays in both directions would be a bit excessive but it would be quite a nice way to get from West Norwood into central London. Maybe even add stops at Tulse Hill and Herne Hill.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 19, 2020 20:43:21 GMT
That would significantly overbus the Marble arch to Shepherds Bush corridor. The X105 would be way too long in journey times and as mentioned - it would be quicker to take an 607 to Hayes, The Grapes and an X140 to Heathrow. Also, a Southall to Heathrow connection is no longer needed, there is the 105 that appropriately does it and there is Crossrail. Your idea just won't work I'm afraid. I’m sorry disagree with your point and so what if there’s already a Southall to Heathrow connection. The 105 is a very busy which route and can do with some help and express route like the X105 can act relief. I can see that my X105 has potential it may not be direct but it can be very useful not all routes have to be direct in order to be useful. The X105 will work. How would a express route overbus the Marble Arch to Shepherds Bush corridor the 390 has just been removed. Routes 94 and 148 are both very routes and a express going from Marble Arch to Heathrow could be very useful and act as relief for routes 94 and 148. The 105 does not require an express route. Give it a PVR increase if absolutely needed and also give the 95 a PVR increase if absolutely needed. There's been discussions on here about the corridor between Marble Arch & Shepherds Bush being very overbussed not necessarily between Marble Arch and NHG but more NHG to Shepherds Bush. However this doesn't remove the fact that your idea of an SB to Heathrow route could take 90 minutes to cover the distance, there is the hopper to change between the 95 & 105, if you really want an overcrowding solution either wait for crossrail to come and see if loads drop at Southall or convert the 95 to Double Decker. A route running between Shepherds Bush & Heathrow Central the way I proposed it, maybe if not serving Brook Green but only Shepherds Bush Stn, Hammersmith Lower Bus Station and express to Heathrow via the A4 & M4 dependant on time of day and traffic, could take as little as 40 minutes providing there are no speed limiters on the buses (like the reduced to 39 mph). Having big connections in areas like Shepherds Bush & Hammersmith to lots of buses could increase patronage significantly. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 19, 2020 20:45:13 GMT
I mention nothing about an X105 going to Heathrow I just said that an express route that goes from Heathrow to Marble Arch via Shepherds Bush and Hammersmith aka A route running all the way from Heathrow to Marble Arch won't work at all, there's too much traffic to even consider it. The Piccadilly Line will already go from Hyde Park Corner, via Hammersmith to Heathrow Airport and you will have Crossrail from Central London soon as well. There's simply too much traffic these days and a route of that length could take hours end to end, whether it's stopping or not. The X68 might cover a similar distance, and starts in Central London. However it currently runs limited hours and if I were a betting man I'd say the route only exists because of legacy and now being too popular to remove without an uprising somewhere. A route in such form would certainly not be introduced today. The X68 during the Southern strikes mayve been a lifeline for residents because they can't get into work without needing to take the long 468 to E&C and a bus up to London Bridge or wherever they work. An express route between SB & Heathrow would be idyllic as it serves many bus Hotspots and can sometimes be quicker than the tube. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 17:06:15 GMT
My proposed changes to routes 224 and 283:
224: Withdrawn between Park Royal (Central Middlesex Hospital) and St Raphael’s Estate and extended in Park Royal to Park Royal Leisure Park where a new bus stop/stand would be in place in the leisure park.
via Coronation Road, Western Avenue and Kendal Avenue. Some roadworks would have to take place on A40 Western Avenue in order to allow buses to turn into Western Avenue and Coronation Road. The DLE's won't be able to navigate in Park Royal, so perhaps the 224 could swap its DLE's onto the 440 with the 440s DMEs going to the 224.
Frequencies: No change
283: Extend to St Raphael’s Estate via Old Oak Common Lane, Oak Oak Lane, Station Road, Acton Lane, Winchelsea Road, Knatchbull Road, Brentfield Road, Drury Way, Great Central Way, Drury Way, Besant Way and Pitfield Way. This would create new links between Brent Park, East Acton, Shepherd's Bush (Westfield) and Hammersmith.
Frequencies: no change
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 20, 2020 20:10:01 GMT
What if the 488 & 205 swapped termini in Bow with the 205 terminating at Hancock Road and the 488 terminating at Bow Church? How would people react I've always wondered.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 20, 2020 20:38:54 GMT
What if the 488 & 205 swapped termini in Bow with the 205 terminating at Hancock Road and the 488 terminating at Bow Church? How would people react I've always wondered. I don't think that would be a good idea, the 205 makes use of the garage terminus as buses are scheduled to go in there to have their changeovers. There's also a lot of traffic on the approach to Bromley By Bow and that's the last thing a traffic ridden route like the 205 needs. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 20, 2020 20:44:53 GMT
What if the 488 & 205 swapped termini in Bow with the 205 terminating at Hancock Road and the 488 terminating at Bow Church? How would people react I've always wondered. I don't think that would be a good idea, the 205 makes use of the garage terminus as buses are scheduled to go in there to have their changeovers. There's also a lot of traffic on the approach to Bromley By Bow and that's the last thing a traffic ridden route like the 205 needs. If the 205 stands in BW why isn't the last stop Bow Bus Garage which the 8 serves? |
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