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Post by greg on Aug 9, 2020 21:29:56 GMT
What I mean to say is via Warren Street & Hampstead Road/Goodge Street etc. The 88 and 168 are indeed very useful but have their own routings too. We once had the 14 and 88 at Warren Street but now have none, so technically no routes at Warren Street, although the 88 is a 10 minute walk and the 14 is about 20, and no one is bothered to walk that long. A Piccadilly-Warren Street link is also very appreciated, also through the 14/88 but now none . Shows how much TFL will cut whatever they can now, the C2 was a short useful route and had similar purposes as the W7, they shouldn’t have withdrawn it. I think another possibility could be cutting the 24 at the southern end to Victoria. Then you could undo the 88/C2 changes by reinstating the C2 (could be a different number) but with the route continuing south of Victoria to Pimilco and onto Battersea, then you could reverse the 88 changes so it reverts to its Camden Town-Clapham Common form going via Warren Street again. I like this idea, a lot. But I would extend the 134 back to Totemham Court Road, just because the 29 would need some assistance, as the 88 goes via Great Portland Street and Oxford Circus
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Post by greg on Aug 9, 2020 21:34:27 GMT
tbh I dont understand what the point is of cutting the route to Holborn as it wont do anything for the route its an inconvinence for the people living in Battersea/islington and the route dosent suffer from much traffic and is a reliable route Whislt that's all true tfl did say that the route had significant spare capacity so was felt the 14 and 38 could cope along Shaftesbury Avenue without it. Obviously it was quite hard to sell as it would have meant several changes to get from end to end as opposed to route 55 to Shoreditch then change for the 35, 47 and 388 to LB. Should of kept the 19 and 38 and removed the 14 imo. You can always walk from Chinatown to Leicester Square which is just like 2 minutes or down Shafestbury Avenue. And then extend like the 7 back to Russel Square. (I think the 113 would have more purpose bringing links than the 7 which has the similar 98 as far as Edgware Road)
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Post by rif153 on Aug 9, 2020 21:43:04 GMT
Whislt that's all true tfl did say that the route had significant spare capacity so was felt the 14 and 38 could cope along Shaftesbury Avenue without it. Obviously it was quite hard to sell as it would have meant several changes to get from end to end as opposed to route 55 to Shoreditch then change for the 35, 47 and 388 to LB. Should of kept the 19 and 38 and removed the 14 imo. You can always walk from Chinatown to Leicester Square which is just like 2 minutes or down Shafestbury Avenue. And then extend like the 7 back to Russel Square. (I think the 113 would have more purpose bringing links than the 7 which has the similar 98 as far as Edgware Road) The problem with removing the 14 is that it removes links from South London to Shaftesbury Avenue and the wider West End - the 19 hardly crosses the Thames and duplicates the 38 between Angel and Hyde Park Corner. I think the 38's frequencies, at times, can be rather generous from my experience at weekends for instance the route seems to be running around with buses in convoys of 3 or 4 with very few people on each bus. I know other's will have different experiences to me and I'm not denying the 38 is a very busy route.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 9, 2020 21:48:41 GMT
Should of kept the 19 and 38 and removed the 14 imo. You can always walk from Chinatown to Leicester Square which is just like 2 minutes or down Shafestbury Avenue. And then extend like the 7 back to Russel Square. (I think the 113 would have more purpose bringing links than the 7 which has the similar 98 as far as Edgware Road) The problem with removing the 14 is that it removes links from South London to Shaftesbury Avenue and the wider West End - the 19 hardly crosses the Thames and duplicates the 38 between Angel and Hyde Park Corner. I think the 38's frequencies, at times, can be rather generous from my experience at weekends for instance the route seems to be running around with buses in convoys of 3 or 4 with very few people on each bus. I know other's will have different experiences to me and I'm not denying the 38 is a very busy route. It was absolutely correct that the 19 stayed IMO, was always an odd decision to remove it and was no surprise when MP's and locals in Battersea kicked up a fuss.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 9, 2020 22:05:16 GMT
What I mean to say is via Warren Street & Hampstead Road/Goodge Street etc. The 88 and 168 are indeed very useful but have their own routings too. We once had the 14 and 88 at Warren Street but now have none, so technically no routes at Warren Street, although the 88 is a 10 minute walk and the 14 is about 20, and no one is bothered to walk that long. A Piccadilly-Warren Street link is also very appreciated, also through the 14/88 but now none . Shows how much TFL will cut whatever they can now, the C2 was a short useful route and had similar purposes as the W7, they shouldn’t have withdrawn it. Unfortunately the C2 had its time and unfortunately had been a victim of a cut. The C2 was relatively empty since it's cut in 2017 to Regent Street, so I wasn't suprised the 88 took over. Tbh you can't compare the C2 to the W7, in no way whatsoever. The W7 links 2 massive communities to Finsbury Park that do not have the tube, and also Crouch Hill considering how poorly the GOBLIN had been functioning for the past few years. Your absolutely right in that the C2 does not compare to the W7 in anyway given how intense the W7 is and it's unique role in that part of London. The C2 though is an interesting one - whilst it's patronage was decreasing where it was practically cut in half between 2014 & the date of withdrawal, it still was carrying enough to justify it's existence (I think the last figure was around the 2.5m mark) and enough to least stick around as a single decker route, certainly there was outcry from Parliament Hill Fields passengers from memory about it's withdrawal. Equally, it's short nature running between Oxford Circus & Parliament Hill Fields mean't something creative was quite easily achievable.
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Post by george on Aug 9, 2020 22:08:03 GMT
Should of kept the 19 and 38 and removed the 14 imo. You can always walk from Chinatown to Leicester Square which is just like 2 minutes or down Shafestbury Avenue. And then extend like the 7 back to Russel Square. (I think the 113 would have more purpose bringing links than the 7 which has the similar 98 as far as Edgware Road) The problem with removing the 14 is that it removes links from South London to Shaftesbury Avenue and the wider West End - the 19 hardly crosses the Thames and duplicates the 38 between Angel and Hyde Park Corner. I think the 38's frequencies, at times, can be rather generous from my experience at weekends for instance the route seems to be running around with buses in convoys of 3 or 4 with very few people on each bus. I know other's will have different experiences to me and I'm not denying the 38 is a very busy route. Maybe the 38 is absolutely heaving in the morning peaks to warrant such a high frequency service but when ever I see it during any other time of the day it's pretty quiet. I see the route around central London mainly piccadilly and on a normal day you might get one busy bus followed by 3 other buses with no more than 6 people om board. I have seen far busier 18s than I do 38s.
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 9, 2020 22:35:02 GMT
No quite sure why people were outraged by the withdrawal of the C2. Firstly it was entirely covered by the 88 now and secondly if a gap service does occasionally happen (as can happen to any route) then there is the frequent 214 from PHF to atleast get you down to Camden. Compared with the 13, 48 the C2 was a fairly well cushioned change.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 9, 2020 23:08:28 GMT
No quite sure why people were outraged by the withdrawal of the C2. Firstly it was entirely covered by the 88 now and secondly if a gap service does occasionally happen (as can happen to any route) then there is the frequent 214 from PHF to atleast get you down to Camden. Compared with the 13, 48 the C2 was a fairly well cushioned change. You would have to ask them why they were outraged. Also, it wasn't entirely covered by the 88 as the 88 didn't run beyond Camden Town back then. I didn't make any comment on whether it was a well cushioned change or not but merely provided some facts in relation to the route.
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 10, 2020 7:08:44 GMT
No quite sure why people were outraged by the withdrawal of the C2. Firstly it was entirely covered by the 88 now and secondly if a gap service does occasionally happen (as can happen to any route) then there is the frequent 214 from PHF to atleast get you down to Camden. Compared with the 13, 48 the C2 was a fairly well cushioned change. The "outrage" was concerns about reliability. There were concerns that replacing a short route such as the C2 with a longer route such as the extended 88 would lead to gaps in the service because of traffic congestion, demonstrations etc. in Central London especially around Trafalgar Square, Whitehall and Parliament Square.
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Post by greenboy on Aug 10, 2020 7:37:48 GMT
No quite sure why people were outraged by the withdrawal of the C2. Firstly it was entirely covered by the 88 now and secondly if a gap service does occasionally happen (as can happen to any route) then there is the frequent 214 from PHF to atleast get you down to Camden. Compared with the 13, 48 the C2 was a fairly well cushioned change. The "outrage" was concerns about reliability. There were concerns that replacing a short route such as the C2 with a longer route such as the extended 88 would lead to gaps in the service because of traffic congestion, demonstrations etc. in Central London especially around Trafalgar Square, Whitehall and Parliament Square. People were lead to believe that they would get an inferior service on the 88 although those fears haven't materialised. There was also a good relationship between regular passengers and drivers on the C2 so it's understandable that some people weren't happy about it but the C2 was poorly used and the change made sense. I guess the only other option would have been to cut the 88 back to Oxford Circus or reduce the C2 frequency and maybe convert it back to smaller buses?
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Post by rif153 on Aug 10, 2020 10:20:16 GMT
No quite sure why people were outraged by the withdrawal of the C2. Firstly it was entirely covered by the 88 now and secondly if a gap service does occasionally happen (as can happen to any route) then there is the frequent 214 from PHF to atleast get you down to Camden. Compared with the 13, 48 the C2 was a fairly well cushioned change. The 88 does cover the entirety of the former C2 route (bar the final stop on Conduit Street for pedants) but it has made the 88 quite a lengthy route. The real losers from the 88/C2 change were those who used the 88 along Hampstead Road, Warren Street or Euston Road as what effectively happened was the C2 being extended to Clapham Common and renumbered the 88 with the previous 88 withdrawn.
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Post by greg on Aug 10, 2020 11:06:26 GMT
88 and C2 were both my locals very very close too and the reason why it made a lot of people mad is that the 88 was withdrawn from Hampstead Road and Warren Street - this meant the quickest link to Oxford Street and Piccadilly was broken and the 73/390 take much longer due to traffic - people liked that the C2 was a short route and that it was quick and suffered no traffic, where the 88 does have occasional issues along its route south which has often cuts and splits on the route during protests and stuff - another issue was that the 27 now went alone from Camden to Great Portland Street via Hampstead Road and people fill up the 27 at Mornington Crescent due to the big office building there and the 27 then is not even a bus they will often miss the stop sometimes during rush hours
And also the C2 100% justified a double deck working, during school hours. I have seen and been on the whole route almost every day, and buses were filled all the way. The 88 has replaced it, and most people have switched to the 134 from Kentish Town instead for the existing 88 routing, so guess it worked but it still caused a lot of issues for routes like the 27 and breaking a few links, now the 134 is also cut to Warren Street.
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Post by greg on Aug 10, 2020 11:10:26 GMT
No quite sure why people were outraged by the withdrawal of the C2. Firstly it was entirely covered by the 88 now and secondly if a gap service does occasionally happen (as can happen to any route) then there is the frequent 214 from PHF to atleast get you down to Camden. Compared with the 13, 48 the C2 was a fairly well cushioned change. The 88 does cover the entirety of the former C2 route (bar the final stop on Conduit Street for pedants) but it has made the 88 quite a lengthy route. The real losers from the 88/C2 change were those who used the 88 along Hampstead Road, Warren Street or Euston Road as what effectively happened was the C2 being extended to Clapham Common and renumbered the 88 with the previous 88 withdrawn. Yes exactly! It seems Hampstead Road and Warren Street lose something every year! We have lost the 88, the 134 cut to Warren Street, the 10 and the 14 and the 73 cut to Oxford Circus. Nearby Euston, we no longer have the 476. We also occassionly have the 29 turns to Warren Street/TCR which makes the 24 horrible! A lot of valuable bus routes have gone, but these would still work today.
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Post by northlondonbuses on Aug 10, 2020 11:49:05 GMT
The 88 does cover the entirety of the former C2 route (bar the final stop on Conduit Street for pedants) but it has made the 88 quite a lengthy route. The real losers from the 88/C2 change were those who used the 88 along Hampstead Road, Warren Street or Euston Road as what effectively happened was the C2 being extended to Clapham Common and renumbered the 88 with the previous 88 withdrawn. Yes exactly! It seems Hampstead Road and Warren Street lose something every year! We have lost the 88, the 134 cut to Warren Street, the 10 and the 14 and the 73 cut to Oxford Circus. Nearby Euston, we no longer have the 476. We also occassionly have the 29 turns to Warren Street/TCR which makes the 24 horrible! A lot of valuable bus routes have gone, but these would still work today. I cant imagine the 29 past warren street as its already full from wood green all the way to holloway and there never is space on the route so you have to get on at the first bus stop or just wait
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 10, 2020 13:22:24 GMT
The 88 does cover the entirety of the former C2 route (bar the final stop on Conduit Street for pedants) but it has made the 88 quite a lengthy route. The real losers from the 88/C2 change were those who used the 88 along Hampstead Road, Warren Street or Euston Road as what effectively happened was the C2 being extended to Clapham Common and renumbered the 88 with the previous 88 withdrawn. Yes exactly! It seems Hampstead Road and Warren Street lose something every year! We have lost the 88, the 134 cut to Warren Street, the 10 and the 14 and the 73 cut to Oxford Circus. Nearby Euston, we no longer have the 476. We also occassionly have the 29 turns to Warren Street/TCR which makes the 24 horrible! A lot of valuable bus routes have gone, but these would still work today. The 476 change made sense. In theory, it could be cut back to Angel with its frequency reduced further.
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