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Post by greg on Jul 29, 2024 11:58:10 GMT
14: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Russel Square and diverted to Euston via Park Lane, Marble Arch, Selfridges, Oxford Circus, Tottenham Court Road, Goodge Street, Warren Street, Euston Square to Euston Bus Station.
17: rerouted between King’s Cross and Archway via York Way, Camden Park Road, Brecknock, Tufnell Park Station and Junction Road.
22: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Oxford Circus, diverted to Baker Street Station via Park Lane, Marble Arch, Selfridges, Portman Square and York Road to Baker Street.
73: extended from Oxford Circus to Victoria via Berkeley Square, Green Park, Hyde Park Corner and Wilton Street to Victoria Bus Station.
74: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Baker Street Station, diverted to Russel Square via Green Park, Piccadilly, Chinatown, Tottenham Court Road, British Museum to Russel Square.
390/414: withdrawn 390 - replaced by changes with 14/17/73 414 - replaced ny changes with 14/22/74
(Regarding the 22/74 - Ive decided to do it this way instead of just rerouting the 22 to Russel Square to reinstate the key Russel Sq - South Kensington link that was popular for the 10/14 - this couldn’t be done hence Ive swapped the 22/74 ends - as well as it would be less of a duo service where the 19/22 would mirror each other from TCR to Sloane Square - so ive swapped 22/74)
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Post by bk10mfe on Jul 29, 2024 21:04:50 GMT
14: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Russel Square and diverted to Euston via Park Lane, Marble Arch, Selfridges, Oxford Circus, Tottenham Court Road, Goodge Street, Warren Street, Euston Square to Euston Bus Station. 17: rerouted between King’s Cross and Archway via York Way, Camden Park Road, Brecknock, Tufnell Park Station and Junction Road. 22: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Oxford Circus, diverted to Baker Street Station via Park Lane, Marble Arch, Selfridges, Portman Square and York Road to Baker Street. 73: extended from Oxford Circus to Victoria via Berkeley Square, Green Park, Hyde Park Corner and Wilton Street to Victoria Bus Station. 74: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Baker Street Station, diverted to Russel Square via Green Park, Piccadilly, Chinatown, Tottenham Court Road, British Museum to Russel Square. 390/414: withdrawn 390 - replaced by changes with 14/17/73 414 - replaced ny changes with 14/22/74 (Regarding the 22/74 - Ive decided to do it this way instead of just rerouting the 22 to Russel Square to reinstate the key Russel Sq - South Kensington link that was popular for the 10/14 - this couldn’t be done hence Ive swapped the 22/74 ends - as well as it would be less of a duo service where the 19/22 would mirror each other from TCR to Sloane Square - so ive swapped 22/74) I’ve suggested similar proposals before to what you have suggested but a bit simpler: 10: Reintroduced to run via its old routing Hammersmith-Kings X via Russell Square. 17: Rerouted as under your set of proposals. 73: Extended back to Victoria but via its old routing on Oxford St & Park Lane. 73’s LT’s won’t fit through Mayfair. 390: Withdrawn I’d leave the 22/74 as they are & I would pull the 14 back to TCR or Piccadilly Circus if TCR lacks stand space. 14 could keep its current PVR on the shortened route & the 414 could be withdrawn.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jul 29, 2024 23:09:24 GMT
14: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Russel Square and diverted to Euston via Park Lane, Marble Arch, Selfridges, Oxford Circus, Tottenham Court Road, Goodge Street, Warren Street, Euston Square to Euston Bus Station. 17: rerouted between King’s Cross and Archway via York Way, Camden Park Road, Brecknock, Tufnell Park Station and Junction Road. 22: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Oxford Circus, diverted to Baker Street Station via Park Lane, Marble Arch, Selfridges, Portman Square and York Road to Baker Street. 73: extended from Oxford Circus to Victoria via Berkeley Square, Green Park, Hyde Park Corner and Wilton Street to Victoria Bus Station. 74: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Baker Street Station, diverted to Russel Square via Green Park, Piccadilly, Chinatown, Tottenham Court Road, British Museum to Russel Square. 390/414: withdrawn 390 - replaced by changes with 14/17/73 414 - replaced ny changes with 14/22/74 (Regarding the 22/74 - Ive decided to do it this way instead of just rerouting the 22 to Russel Square to reinstate the key Russel Sq - South Kensington link that was popular for the 10/14 - this couldn’t be done hence Ive swapped the 22/74 ends - as well as it would be less of a duo service where the 19/22 would mirror each other from TCR to Sloane Square - so ive swapped 22/74) I’ve suggested similar proposals before to what you have suggested but a bit simpler: 10: Reintroduced to run via its old routing Hammersmith-Kings X via Russell Square. 17: Rerouted as under your set of proposals. 73: Extended back to Victoria but via its old routing on Oxford St & Park Lane. 73’s LT’s won’t fit through Mayfair. 390: Withdrawn I’d leave the 22/74 as they are & I would pull the 14 back to TCR or Piccadilly Circus if TCR lacks stand space. 14 could keep its current PVR on the shortened route & the 414 could be withdrawn. I think a type change would be in order then! I think a through route through Berkeley Square is important for it to actually have a chance to be used. At the moment, the 22 is pretty much useless as no one would get on to go just up to Oxford Circus. It can be a decently fast link though especially with Park Lane being badly congested lately so if the 73 is re-extended to Victoria I'd go with that (plenty of options from Marble Arch to Victoria so ex-390 passengers won't lose out too much neither).
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 30, 2024 1:11:01 GMT
I’ve suggested similar proposals before to what you have suggested but a bit simpler: 10: Reintroduced to run via its old routing Hammersmith-Kings X via Russell Square. 17: Rerouted as under your set of proposals. 73: Extended back to Victoria but via its old routing on Oxford St & Park Lane. 73’s LT’s won’t fit through Mayfair. 390: Withdrawn I’d leave the 22/74 as they are & I would pull the 14 back to TCR or Piccadilly Circus if TCR lacks stand space. 14 could keep its current PVR on the shortened route & the 414 could be withdrawn. I think a type change would be in order then! I think a through route through Berkeley Square is important for it to actually have a chance to be used. At the moment, the 22 is pretty much useless as no one would get on to go just up to Oxford Circus. It can be a decently fast link though especially with Park Lane being badly congested lately so if the 73 is re-extended to Victoria I'd go with that (plenty of options from Marble Arch to Victoria so ex-390 passengers won't lose out too much neither).
I think something following the Victoria line would be ideal here, rather than the C2 going via Albany Street to Camden Town, or the 22 via Knightsbridge. So whichever route were to cover this, should include Victoria - Green Park - Berkeley Square - Oxford Circus - Great Portland Street - Euston. Perhaps a revised 11 could cover some of the proposed 311 links, and reroute at Victoria to operate between Fulham Broadway and Euston / Kings Cross? Then at the same time send the 22 to Waterloo (via Victoria). The 19 would maintain the 22's links via Knightsbridge.
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Post by greg on Jul 30, 2024 9:33:47 GMT
14: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Russel Square and diverted to Euston via Park Lane, Marble Arch, Selfridges, Oxford Circus, Tottenham Court Road, Goodge Street, Warren Street, Euston Square to Euston Bus Station. 17: rerouted between King’s Cross and Archway via York Way, Camden Park Road, Brecknock, Tufnell Park Station and Junction Road. 22: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Oxford Circus, diverted to Baker Street Station via Park Lane, Marble Arch, Selfridges, Portman Square and York Road to Baker Street. 73: extended from Oxford Circus to Victoria via Berkeley Square, Green Park, Hyde Park Corner and Wilton Street to Victoria Bus Station. 74: withdrawn between Hyde Park Corner and Baker Street Station, diverted to Russel Square via Green Park, Piccadilly, Chinatown, Tottenham Court Road, British Museum to Russel Square. 390/414: withdrawn 390 - replaced by changes with 14/17/73 414 - replaced ny changes with 14/22/74 (Regarding the 22/74 - Ive decided to do it this way instead of just rerouting the 22 to Russel Square to reinstate the key Russel Sq - South Kensington link that was popular for the 10/14 - this couldn’t be done hence Ive swapped the 22/74 ends - as well as it would be less of a duo service where the 19/22 would mirror each other from TCR to Sloane Square - so ive swapped 22/74) I’ve suggested similar proposals before to what you have suggested but a bit simpler: 10: Reintroduced to run via its old routing Hammersmith-Kings X via Russell Square. 17: Rerouted as under your set of proposals. 73: Extended back to Victoria but via its old routing on Oxford St & Park Lane. 73’s LT’s won’t fit through Mayfair. 390: Withdrawn I’d leave the 22/74 as they are & I would pull the 14 back to TCR or Piccadilly Circus if TCR lacks stand space. 14 could keep its current PVR on the shortened route & the 414 could be withdrawn. Yeah I suggested mine as a similar to the 10/73/390 reversal however I do understand why the 10 was the chosen route to go. Kensington Road was certianly overbussed and to have two routes that both ended at Hammersmith was a bit wasteful, if we had the either one of the 9/10 to Chiswick, Business Park and the 27 to Hammersmith per say, perhaps the route would still exist. I think after what’s already happened, the 14 has potential to just reroute via Marble Arch and Oxford Circus as they already want to remove a route along the Piccadilly and Chinatown and this would not only replace the 414 but 390 as we’ve mentioned. I do agree with what you were saying about the 73 via Marble Arch under your own set of proposals as the current 390 already leaves passengers behind. And then the 17 can go replacing the northern end of the 390 and we can leave the 22/74 alone. I hear British Museum is getting pedestrianised anyway so we may see some actual revised changes to the 14/414 consultation.
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Post by greg on Jul 30, 2024 9:35:36 GMT
I’ve suggested similar proposals before to what you have suggested but a bit simpler: 10: Reintroduced to run via its old routing Hammersmith-Kings X via Russell Square. 17: Rerouted as under your set of proposals. 73: Extended back to Victoria but via its old routing on Oxford St & Park Lane. 73’s LT’s won’t fit through Mayfair. 390: Withdrawn I’d leave the 22/74 as they are & I would pull the 14 back to TCR or Piccadilly Circus if TCR lacks stand space. 14 could keep its current PVR on the shortened route & the 414 could be withdrawn. I think a type change would be in order then! I think a through route through Berkeley Square is important for it to actually have a chance to be used. At the moment, the 22 is pretty much useless as no one would get on to go just up to Oxford Circus. It can be a decently fast link though especially with Park Lane being badly congested lately so if the 73 is re-extended to Victoria I'd go with that (plenty of options from Marble Arch to Victoria so ex-390 passengers won't lose out too much neither).
Exactly that. The 22 has picked up as have been using it observationly, but yes there could be so much more potential and I think the 73 would the perfect route to extend in our current route map nature
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Post by greg on Jul 30, 2024 9:38:00 GMT
I think a type change would be in order then! I think a through route through Berkeley Square is important for it to actually have a chance to be used. At the moment, the 22 is pretty much useless as no one would get on to go just up to Oxford Circus. It can be a decently fast link though especially with Park Lane being badly congested lately so if the 73 is re-extended to Victoria I'd go with that (plenty of options from Marble Arch to Victoria so ex-390 passengers won't lose out too much neither).
I think something following the Victoria line would be ideal here, rather than the C2 going via Albany Street to Camden Town, or the 22 via Knightsbridge. So whichever route were to cover this, should include Victoria - Green Park - Berkeley Square - Oxford Circus - Great Portland Street - Euston. Perhaps a revised 11 could cover some of the proposed 311 links, and reroute at Victoria to operate between Fulham Broadway and Euston / Kings Cross? Then at the same time send the 22 to Waterloo (via Victoria). The 19 would maintain the 22's links via Knightsbridge. You’d be missing out that very key Camden to Oxford Circus link. Extremely busy on the C2 and 88. Your revised 11 would be perfect had it just follow up to Camden Town from GPS instead of Euston. I think that would be a quite popular link too, that part of London isnt connected to Camden as such by rail, youve got the rather distant 31 only.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 30, 2024 9:52:25 GMT
I think something following the Victoria line would be ideal here, rather than the C2 going via Albany Street to Camden Town, or the 22 via Knightsbridge. So whichever route were to cover this, should include Victoria - Green Park - Berkeley Square - Oxford Circus - Great Portland Street - Euston. Perhaps a revised 11 could cover some of the proposed 311 links, and reroute at Victoria to operate between Fulham Broadway and Euston / Kings Cross? Then at the same time send the 22 to Waterloo (via Victoria). The 19 would maintain the 22's links via Knightsbridge. You’d be missing out that very key Camden to Oxford Circus link. Extremely busy on the C2 and 88. Your revised 11 would be perfect had it just follow up to Camden Town from GPS instead of Euston. I think that would be a quite popular link too, that part of London isnt connected to Camden as such by rail, youve got the rather distant 31 only. The 88 would still link Camden to Oxford Circus. My revised 11 idea is to replace the 22 south of Oxford Circus, then new links north to Euston or Kings Cross. If you were to send the 11 up to Camden Town, I think it should at least go via Hampstead Road to serve the Euston / Warren St area. But I'm sure they would be a lot of demand to travel by bus from Camden to the Chelsea area considering the distance - by train I think changing at Embankment between the Northern and District lines is adequate.
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Post by bk10mfe on Jul 30, 2024 10:43:50 GMT
I’ve suggested similar proposals before to what you have suggested but a bit simpler: 10: Reintroduced to run via its old routing Hammersmith-Kings X via Russell Square. 17: Rerouted as under your set of proposals. 73: Extended back to Victoria but via its old routing on Oxford St & Park Lane. 73’s LT’s won’t fit through Mayfair. 390: Withdrawn I’d leave the 22/74 as they are & I would pull the 14 back to TCR or Piccadilly Circus if TCR lacks stand space. 14 could keep its current PVR on the shortened route & the 414 could be withdrawn. Yeah I suggested mine as a similar to the 10/73/390 reversal however I do understand why the 10 was the chosen route to go. Kensington Road was certianly overbussed and to have two routes that both ended at Hammersmith was a bit wasteful, if we had the either one of the 9/10 to Chiswick, Business Park and the 27 to Hammersmith per say, perhaps the route would still exist. I think after what’s already happened, the 14 has potential to just reroute via Marble Arch and Oxford Circus as they already want to remove a route along the Piccadilly and Chinatown and this would not only replace the 414 but 390 as we’ve mentioned. I do agree with what you were saying about the 73 via Marble Arch under your own set of proposals as the current 390 already leaves passengers behind. And then the 17 can go replacing the northern end of the 390 and we can leave the 22/74 alone. I hear British Museum is getting pedestrianised anyway so we may see some actual revised changes to the 14/414 consultation. I think back when the 9/10 were operating on Kensington Road both routes would get good loadings along that section along with the 52, so I wouldn’t say that corridor was overbussed then. When the 23 was sent there though loadings dropped off a cliff due to the 23’s links after Marble Arch being not nearly as useful as the 10’s was. I do wonder if the 10 was reinstated how well it would load now as I do think many people would be happy to have their links from Kensington-Oxford St to be reintroduced. & regarding an extra route to Chiswick Business Park I feel like diverting the 306 there would be the best idea, however it would only work in combination of decking the 218 & revising it with the 440 in the Acton area. 218 would make sense to takeover the 440’s section to Wembley as well.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 30, 2024 10:50:09 GMT
Yeah I suggested mine as a similar to the 10/73/390 reversal however I do understand why the 10 was the chosen route to go. Kensington Road was certianly overbussed and to have two routes that both ended at Hammersmith was a bit wasteful, if we had the either one of the 9/10 to Chiswick, Business Park and the 27 to Hammersmith per say, perhaps the route would still exist. I think after what’s already happened, the 14 has potential to just reroute via Marble Arch and Oxford Circus as they already want to remove a route along the Piccadilly and Chinatown and this would not only replace the 414 but 390 as we’ve mentioned. I do agree with what you were saying about the 73 via Marble Arch under your own set of proposals as the current 390 already leaves passengers behind. And then the 17 can go replacing the northern end of the 390 and we can leave the 22/74 alone. I hear British Museum is getting pedestrianised anyway so we may see some actual revised changes to the 14/414 consultation. I think back when the 9/10 were operating on Kensington Road both routes would get good loadings along that section along with the 52, so I wouldn’t say that corridor was overbussed then. When the 23 was sent there though loadings dropped off a cliff due to the 23’s links after Marble Arch being not nearly as useful as the 10’s was. I do wonder if the 10 was reinstated how well it would load now as I do think many people would be happy to have their links from Kensington-Oxford St to be reintroduced. & regarding an extra route to Chiswick Business Park I feel like diverting the 306 there would be the best idea, however it would only work in combination of decking the 218 & revising it with the 440 in the Acton area. 218 would make sense to takeover the 440’s section to Wembley as well. I wonder if a compromise option (if TFL don't want to re-introduce an additional route along Kensington Road) could be to reroute the 9 at Piccadilly Circus to go to Kings Cross instead, via Cambridge Circus, Tottenham Court Road, Russell Square and Euston? Then in place send the 14 to Aldwych.
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Post by bk10mfe on Jul 30, 2024 10:53:53 GMT
I think back when the 9/10 were operating on Kensington Road both routes would get good loadings along that section along with the 52, so I wouldn’t say that corridor was overbussed then. When the 23 was sent there though loadings dropped off a cliff due to the 23’s links after Marble Arch being not nearly as useful as the 10’s was. I do wonder if the 10 was reinstated how well it would load now as I do think many people would be happy to have their links from Kensington-Oxford St to be reintroduced. & regarding an extra route to Chiswick Business Park I feel like diverting the 306 there would be the best idea, however it would only work in combination of decking the 218 & revising it with the 440 in the Acton area. 218 would make sense to takeover the 440’s section to Wembley as well. I wonder if a compromise option (if TFL don't want to re-introduce an additional route along Kensington Road) could be to reroute the 9 at Piccadilly Circus to go to Kings Cross instead, via Cambridge Circus, Tottenham Court Road, Russell Square and Euston? Then in place send the 14 to Aldwych. I’ve suggested this previously but breaking the well established links from Kensington to Strand is out of the question here.
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Post by greg on Jul 30, 2024 13:45:43 GMT
I wonder if a compromise option (if TFL don't want to re-introduce an additional route along Kensington Road) could be to reroute the 9 at Piccadilly Circus to go to Kings Cross instead, via Cambridge Circus, Tottenham Court Road, Russell Square and Euston? Then in place send the 14 to Aldwych. I’ve suggested this previously but breaking the well established links from Kensington to Strand is out of the question here. I think the 9 goes the same with the 24 as historically promimenent if that makes sense. That link from Strand to Kensington Palace via Piccadilly and HPC must really help fund the network. It’d be silly to tamper with it especially when no other route does a similar link mow. Although i could counter my own point when the 24 was planned to be withdrawn (although replaced by 88) and the 15 was cut to TSQ.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 30, 2024 14:55:42 GMT
I’ve suggested this previously but breaking the well established links from Kensington to Strand is out of the question here. I think the 9 goes the same with the 24 as historically promimenent if that makes sense. That link from Strand to Kensington Palace via Piccadilly and HPC must really help fund the network. It’d be silly to tamper with it especially when no other route does a similar link mow. Although i could counter my own point when the 24 was planned to be withdrawn (although replaced by 88) and the 15 was cut to TSQ. It depends exactly what current journey patterns are. In this scenario the 14 would still link the Strand as far as Knightsbridge, while also adding some new links to places like South Kensington. For those travelling further west to Kensington High Street, stops around Cambridge Circus would still provide good access to the West End. Plus the option to use the Circle Line from High Street Kensington to Embankment or Temple.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jul 30, 2024 18:22:17 GMT
I wonder if a compromise option (if TFL don't want to re-introduce an additional route along Kensington Road) could be to reroute the 9 at Piccadilly Circus to go to Kings Cross instead, via Cambridge Circus, Tottenham Court Road, Russell Square and Euston? Then in place send the 14 to Aldwych. I’ve suggested this previously but breaking the well established links from Kensington to Strand is out of the question here. It never seems to be particularly busy on that stretch to be honest. I think going up via Chinatown to TCR and perhaps beyond would be far more popular. But then you'd subject the 14 to the same issue -- the Aldwych isn't really that big of a passenger source.
I guess one could argue that it would create new links as the 14 currently parallels the Picc, so sending it to Aldwych would give it a new market (though it remains very busy despite following the tube!).
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 30, 2024 19:21:33 GMT
I’ve suggested this previously but breaking the well established links from Kensington to Strand is out of the question here. It never seems to be particularly busy on that stretch to be honest. I think going up via Chinatown to TCR and perhaps beyond would be far more popular. But then you'd subject the 14 to the same issue -- the Aldwych isn't really that big of a passenger source. I guess one could argue that it would create new links as the 14 currently parallels the Picc, so sending it to Aldwych would give it a new market (though it remains very busy despite following the tube!).
Not sure the 14 is very busy tbh. Most sightings I see along Piccadilly and Shaftesbury Ave are pretty lightly used these days hence why TFL have twice tried to remove a route from that stretch.
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