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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Aug 25, 2024 17:45:00 GMT
I'm not sure how well used the 427 would be if it were re-extended to Acton or even Ealing, travel patterns have likely changed permanently. I think the rest is amazing though. Could the U7 be extended to Toplocks to take over that proposed section of the 495? That's a good shout, but wouldn't the U7 be too long in that form? Reliability could also decrease due to the horrific traffic in Southall. Where is the E5 going to terminate when the 495 is introduced? Merrick Road doesn't have loads of stand space either so maybe the 427 can terminate at Southall Waterside? content.tfl.gov.uk/southall-development-sites-bus-study-.pdf page 28 shows a map of the proposal to terminate the E5 in central Southall and reroute the 427 via Toplocks Estate. Maybe these two proposals could go ahead with the U5 terminating at Merrick Road, 427/E5 in central Southall and U7 at Toplocks?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 26, 2024 11:19:41 GMT
Why wouldn't airport passengers want a bus to Barking? It always seemed very weird the SL2 stopped very short of an airport that would only take an extra few minutes. Would have been good to have required LCY to fund it (and possibly future other services) as part of their expansion plans... helps with wider social benefits of expansion (and would help counteract some of the perceived negatives of increasing the capacity caps) as it would expand catchment area for employment. Indeed, I doubt it would have cost much in the grand scheme especially compared to the winder project of their expansion. I think the addition of a few extra flights a day also is the start of an already in progress shift of LCY going from business oriented to becoming more premium leisure oriented. Previously most of their custom would try to get business traffic, especially on the New York flight that would operate. But now it's likely to be an expansion of the BA City Flyer operations or other airlines which are capturing the leisure market. A growing market is people actually travelling far distances such as Singapore taking planes out of City Airport to either Amsterdam or Frankfurt and connecting there as opposed to making the journey to Heathrow as the time taken wouldn't be hugely different.
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Post by mrhk on Aug 26, 2024 15:54:05 GMT
That's a good shout, but wouldn't the U7 be too long in that form? Reliability could also decrease due to the horrific traffic in Southall. Where is the E5 going to terminate when the 495 is introduced? Merrick Road doesn't have loads of stand space either so maybe the 427 can terminate at Southall Waterside? content.tfl.gov.uk/southall-development-sites-bus-study-.pdf page 28 shows a map of the proposal to terminate the E5 in central Southall and reroute the 427 via Toplocks Estate. Maybe these two proposals could go ahead with the U5 terminating at Merrick Road, 427/E5 in central Southall and U7 at Toplocks? It could definetly work, it wouldn't necessarily have to follow the 427 into Southall which is the more traffic prone route. It could just follow 140 up until Pump Lane where it'll then follow proposed route 495 from Hayes Town to Toplocks (or Town Hall as the 95 and H32 will free up space). H32 (when extended) will provide the connection between Green Quater and Hayes and Harlington so there wouldn't be need for 2 routes to go from Green Quater to Hayes and Harlington.
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Post by WH241 on Aug 26, 2024 16:51:00 GMT
Why when there is the 473 and 474 already from North Woolwich! A third route along this section is excessive. I doubt many airport passengers would want a bus towards Barking. Why wouldn't airport passengers want a bus to Barking? It always seemed very weird the SL2 stopped very short of an airport that would only take an extra few minutes. A few extra minutes? I doubt it somehow. The time buses serve North Woolwich then head towards the airport it will soon add time espicially if the ferry is playing up!
TfL would not even consider sending the 241 via the airport as it was not value for money and would have added runinng time.
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There were requests for the 241 to serve London City Airport. Diverting the 241 into the airport would delay through passengers by up to 6 minutes in each direction, making the route unattractive to many of the expected users as well as increase operating costs making it not value for money. The DLR provides links from West Silvertown / North Woolwich to the airport during the day and route 474 will in future provide links from Custom House to the airport.
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I am not getting drawn into the debate any further the fact is if the airport was a important destination for Superloop it would had been part of the route from day one. Everyone is acting like City Airport is the new Heathrow and it really can't expand much more.
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 26, 2024 16:59:05 GMT
Why wouldn't airport passengers want a bus to Barking? It always seemed very weird the SL2 stopped very short of an airport that would only take an extra few minutes. A few extra minutes? I doubt it somehow. The time buses serve North Woolwich then head towards the airport it will soon add time espicially if the ferry is playing up!
TfL would not even consider sending the 241 via the airport as it was not value for money and would have added runinng time.
---
There were requests for the 241 to serve London City Airport. Diverting the 241 into the airport would delay through passengers by up to 6 minutes in each direction, making the route unattractive to many of the expected users as well as increase operating costs making it not value for money. The DLR provides links from West Silvertown / North Woolwich to the airport during the day and route 474 will in future provide links from Custom House to the airport.
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I am not getting drawn into the debate any further the fact is if the airport was a important destination for Superloop it would had been part of the route from day one. Everyone is acting like City Airport is the new Heathrow and it really can't expand much more.
I'm with you on this, the case for additional bus links is being overstated, especially as the Airport has a DLR station at its front entrance*. The Airport's typical customer is far more likely to use the DLR and its rail-based connections, or a taxi/car service, than a bus service. When I lived in East London I rarely saw more than penny numbers getting on and off the 473 and 474 there. * for the same reason, a £50 million Elizabeth Line station at Silvertown is also a non-starter.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 26, 2024 18:23:04 GMT
Why wouldn't airport passengers want a bus to Barking? It always seemed very weird the SL2 stopped very short of an airport that would only take an extra few minutes. A few extra minutes? I doubt it somehow. The time buses serve North Woolwich then head towards the airport it will soon add time espicially if the ferry is playing up!
TfL would not even consider sending the 241 via the airport as it was not value for money and would have added runinng time.
---
There were requests for the 241 to serve London City Airport. Diverting the 241 into the airport would delay through passengers by up to 6 minutes in each direction, making the route unattractive to many of the expected users as well as increase operating costs making it not value for money. The DLR provides links from West Silvertown / North Woolwich to the airport during the day and route 474 will in future provide links from Custom House to the airport.
----
I am not getting drawn into the debate any further the fact is if the airport was a important destination for Superloop it would had been part of the route from day one. Everyone is acting like City Airport is the new Heathrow and it really can't expand much more.
I have no idea why you're referencing a route that has nothing to do with the SL2, the 241 is walking distance from the 473 for pretty much its entire route and is a direct parallel between Balaam Street and Stratford, so there's no reason why they would send that route to LCY. The 241 would also require a diversion into the airport while the SL2 would be a direct extension inconveniencing nobody. The 241 report also mentions that the 474 will in future provide the links, the SL2 has nowhere on its route apart from North Woolwich providing links to City Airport. The 241 and SL2 have completely nothing in common to each other so I don't see what relevance your quote even has? The ferry playing up would have minimal impact on the SL2, especially as buses would follow the 474 route on the return which wouldn't involve the ferry traffic. That's again a completely irrelevant point.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 26, 2024 18:24:26 GMT
A few extra minutes? I doubt it somehow. The time buses serve North Woolwich then head towards the airport it will soon add time espicially if the ferry is playing up!
TfL would not even consider sending the 241 via the airport as it was not value for money and would have added runinng time.
---
There were requests for the 241 to serve London City Airport. Diverting the 241 into the airport would delay through passengers by up to 6 minutes in each direction, making the route unattractive to many of the expected users as well as increase operating costs making it not value for money. The DLR provides links from West Silvertown / North Woolwich to the airport during the day and route 474 will in future provide links from Custom House to the airport.
----
I am not getting drawn into the debate any further the fact is if the airport was a important destination for Superloop it would had been part of the route from day one. Everyone is acting like City Airport is the new Heathrow and it really can't expand much more.
I'm with you on this, the case for additional bus links is being overstated, especially as the Airport has a DLR station at its front entrance*. The Airport's typical customer is far more likely to use the DLR and its rail-based connections, or a taxi/car service, than a bus service. When I lived in East London I rarely saw more than penny numbers getting on and off the 473 and 474 there. * for the same reason, a £50 million Elizabeth Line station at Silvertown is also a non-starter. City Airport is likely to focus on more leisure travel as it progresses, the Crossrail planning was done when it was a predominantly a business airport. It's clientele now are much more likely to be from the surrounding area where the SL2 would be of great benefit. Unless however, you think all these people should just use cabs? The DLR is not going to be much use to people in Barking, Ilford, Gants Hill etc
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Post by sdaniel on Aug 26, 2024 21:37:34 GMT
444 extended to Highgate Village via 41’s route up to Edison Road, turning right at Hornsey Lane via Archway Bridge then turning right again at Highgate Hill towards Highgate Village.
This extension is to make a direct link between Crouch End and Highgate Village, also Upper Edmonton and Crouch End. Comment your feedback. Can the 444 get through Hornsey Lane?
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Post by dominic on Aug 27, 2024 0:07:37 GMT
How do you know about this?
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Post by dominic on Aug 27, 2024 0:10:15 GMT
sorry ignore this I thought this was upcoming changes lol how retarted of me
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Post by Busboy105 on Aug 27, 2024 11:45:52 GMT
444 extended to Highgate Village via 41’s route up to Edison Road, turning right at Hornsey Lane via Archway Bridge then turning right again at Highgate Hill towards Highgate Village. This extension is to make a direct link between Crouch End and Highgate Village, also Upper Edmonton and Crouch End. Comment your feedback. Can the 444 get through Hornsey Lane? That would make the 444 really long
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Post by YX18KVJ (DLE30221) on Aug 27, 2024 20:20:48 GMT
content.tfl.gov.uk/southall-development-sites-bus-study-.pdf page 28 shows a map of the proposal to terminate the E5 in central Southall and reroute the 427 via Toplocks Estate. Maybe these two proposals could go ahead with the U5 terminating at Merrick Road, 427/E5 in central Southall and U7 at Toplocks? It could definetly work, it wouldn't necessarily have to follow the 427 into Southall which is the more traffic prone route. It could just follow 140 up until Pump Lane where it'll then follow proposed route 495 from Hayes Town to Toplocks (or Town Hall as the 95 and H32 will free up space). H32 (when extended) will provide the connection between Green Quater and Hayes and Harlington so there wouldn't be need for 2 routes to go from Green Quater to Hayes and Harlington. The H32 extension is not happening anymore. I believe that is why the 495 is now being introduced. So it does make sense for the U5 to be extended.
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Post by mrhk on Aug 27, 2024 21:12:03 GMT
It could definetly work, it wouldn't necessarily have to follow the 427 into Southall which is the more traffic prone route. It could just follow 140 up until Pump Lane where it'll then follow proposed route 495 from Hayes Town to Toplocks (or Town Hall as the 95 and H32 will free up space). H32 (when extended) will provide the connection between Green Quater and Hayes and Harlington so there wouldn't be need for 2 routes to go from Green Quater to Hayes and Harlington. The H32 extension is not happening anymore. I believe that is why the 495 is now being introduced. So it does make sense for the U5 to be extended. I mean if the U5 is to be extended to Southall, it would kill the point of the 495. Also, the 350 having an extension proposed will allow for the 495 to terminate at Hayes, Asda. If the 495 is to be introduced, it definetly shouldn't be restricted just between Hayes and Southall. I think it should be extended to Terminal 5 via route 698 to Cherry Lane Roundabout, down Holloway Lane, via Holloway Lane, shadowing the 350 up to Colnbrook and then following 423 to Terminal 5. This way the route does not mirror 350 too much and allows Colnbrook direct connections to places that aren't Hounslow.
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Post by YX18KVJ (DLE30221) on Aug 27, 2024 21:31:46 GMT
The H32 extension is not happening anymore. I believe that is why the 495 is now being introduced. So it does make sense for the U5 to be extended. I mean if the U5 is to be extended to Southall, it would kill the point of the 495. Also, the 350 having an extension proposed will allow for the 495 to terminate at Hayes, Asda. If the 495 is to be introduced, it definetly shouldn't be restricted just between Hayes and Southall. I think it should be extended to Terminal 5 via route 698 to Cherry Lane Roundabout, down Holloway Lane, via Holloway Lane, shadowing the 350 up to Colnbrook and then following 423 to Terminal 5. This way the route does not mirror 350 too much and allows Colnbrook direct connections to places that aren't Hounslow. I meant for the 495 not to be introduced with the U5 taking over it's Southall section.
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Post by mrhk on Aug 27, 2024 21:43:12 GMT
I mean if the U5 is to be extended to Southall, it would kill the point of the 495. Also, the 350 having an extension proposed will allow for the 495 to terminate at Hayes, Asda. If the 495 is to be introduced, it definetly shouldn't be restricted just between Hayes and Southall. I think it should be extended to Terminal 5 via route 698 to Cherry Lane Roundabout, down Holloway Lane, via Holloway Lane, shadowing the 350 up to Colnbrook and then following 423 to Terminal 5. This way the route does not mirror 350 too much and allows Colnbrook direct connections to places that aren't Hounslow. I meant for the 495 not to be introduced with the U5 taking over it's Southall section. Where would the U5 terminate in Southall? There's a few stands at Broadway, Merrick Road and Toplocks.
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