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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 17, 2024 11:15:27 GMT
18 - Withdrawn between Sudbury, Harrow Road and Stonebridge Park to increase reliability 182 - Withdrawn between Brent Cross and Wembley Central, instead being diverted to Willesden Jn via the 18 to make sure no links are lost and support the 18 between Stonebridge Park and Willesden Jn. 483 - Withdrawn between Harrow Bus Station and Wembley Central and diverted via current route 182 too Brent Cross. To make sure Wembley - Brent Cross links aren't broken H14 - Extended from Northwick Park Hospital to Sudbury Harrow Road via current route 483 and 18. To make sure current links on the 483 are not broken N18 - Short workings extending to Harrow Bus Station to allow passengers a night service across the entire route (passengers from N18 Harrow shorts can connect with N140 to access Harrow Weald) 223 - Cut back to Harrow Bus Station. H17 - Extended to Harrow View as opposed to the 223. I would leave the 18 as it is, but I’m in support of your 182 extension (rerouting) to Willesden Junction, you could possibly even extend the 182 to Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury’s or Westbourne Park via 18’s way then 23’s way. I think it would be better to reroute the 92 to Brent Cross Shopping Centre instead of the 483 to connect new places such as Greenford to Wembley Park, Neasden and Brent Cross. You can also extend the H17 to St Raphael’s North to replace 92’s section. I think the 92 could be too long as well to go as far as Brent Cross. My suggestion would be to reroute the 297, to go from Ealing to Wembley Central as present, then taking over the 182 to Brent Cross. Then a shorter extension of the 92 from Brent Park to Willesden - this would also link Ikea to Neasden Station. Plus possible further changes: - 206 rerouted after Brent Park to Neasden, then via the current 297 to terminate at Wembley Central. This offers a local link from Blackbird Hill to Brent Park, plus a new link from Neasden to Harlesden, and replaces the 297 along Wembley Park Drive. Could also fully convert to DDs. - 440 extended from Wembley Stadium to terminate at The Paddocks. - 223 cut back from Wembley Central to Wembley Park, and instead extended via the 206 to Brent Park, then to St Raphaels (linking the estate to Wembley Park). Also links the Harrow/Kenton area to Brent Park. Could increase to every 15 minutes, and maybe also cut back to Harrow, with the 395 or H17 going to Harrow View. And could consider continuing from St Raphaels to Park Royal, replacing most of the 224 (the 79/487 may be sufficient to/from Alperton). |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 17, 2024 16:39:48 GMT
I would leave the 18 as it is, but I’m in support of your 182 extension (rerouting) to Willesden Junction, you could possibly even extend the 182 to Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury’s or Westbourne Park via 18’s way then 23’s way. I think it would be better to reroute the 92 to Brent Cross Shopping Centre instead of the 483 to connect new places such as Greenford to Wembley Park, Neasden and Brent Cross. You can also extend the H17 to St Raphael’s North to replace 92’s section. I think the 92 could be too long as well to go as far as Brent Cross. My suggestion would be to reroute the 297, to go from Ealing to Wembley Central as present, then taking over the 182 to Brent Cross. Then a shorter extension of the 92 from Brent Park to Willesden - this would also link Ikea to Neasden Station. Plus possible further changes: - 206 rerouted after Brent Park to Neasden, then via the current 297 to terminate at Wembley Central. This offers a local link from Blackbird Hill to Brent Park, plus a new link from Neasden to Harlesden, and replaces the 297 along Wembley Park Drive. Could also fully convert to DDs. - 440 extended from Wembley Stadium to terminate at The Paddocks. - 223 cut back from Wembley Central to Wembley Park, and instead extended via the 206 to Brent Park, then to St Raphaels (linking the estate to Wembley Park). Also links the Harrow/Kenton area to Brent Park. Could increase to every 15 minutes, and maybe also cut back to Harrow, with the 395 or H17 going to Harrow View. And could consider continuing from St Raphaels to Park Royal, replacing most of the 224 (the 79/487 may be sufficient to/from Alperton). 92’s current max running time is 77 minutes, let’s say you subtract 5 minutes because of the withdrawal between Wembley Stadium and St Raphael’s North and add 25 minutes to 92’s running time, it would be a total of maximum 97-98 minutes there about which is and should be fine. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Oct 17, 2024 21:03:25 GMT
I think the 92 could be too long as well to go as far as Brent Cross. My suggestion would be to reroute the 297, to go from Ealing to Wembley Central as present, then taking over the 182 to Brent Cross. Then a shorter extension of the 92 from Brent Park to Willesden - this would also link Ikea to Neasden Station. Plus possible further changes: - 206 rerouted after Brent Park to Neasden, then via the current 297 to terminate at Wembley Central. This offers a local link from Blackbird Hill to Brent Park, plus a new link from Neasden to Harlesden, and replaces the 297 along Wembley Park Drive. Could also fully convert to DDs. - 440 extended from Wembley Stadium to terminate at The Paddocks. - 223 cut back from Wembley Central to Wembley Park, and instead extended via the 206 to Brent Park, then to St Raphaels (linking the estate to Wembley Park). Also links the Harrow/Kenton area to Brent Park. Could increase to every 15 minutes, and maybe also cut back to Harrow, with the 395 or H17 going to Harrow View. And could consider continuing from St Raphaels to Park Royal, replacing most of the 224 (the 79/487 may be sufficient to/from Alperton). 92’s current max running time is 77 minutes, let’s say you subtract 5 minutes because of the withdrawal between Wembley Stadium and St Raphael’s North and add 25 minutes to 92’s running time, it would be a total of maximum 97-98 minutes there about which is and should be fine. Is the 92 still suffering from issues with the traffic around Greenford Station & the roundabout? If so I would be entirely against altering the route in any way, even if it would be useful such as an extension to Neasden Station. |
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Post by Trafalgax on Oct 18, 2024 15:08:58 GMT
Some Changes to the 25:
Route 25 - Stratford Bus Station to Oxford Circus (6-7 bph)
Route (??) - Ilford, Hainault Street to Aldgate Bus Station (7-8 bph)
The 8 and 425 can stay the same to help the overlapping routes.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 18, 2024 17:35:33 GMT
Some Changes to the 25: Route 25 - Stratford Bus Station to Oxford Circus (6-7 bph) Route (??) - Ilford, Hainault Street to Aldgate Bus Station (7-8 bph) The 8 and 425 can stay the same to help the overlapping routes. Not sure there is need for another route between Stratford and Mile End. Usage of the 25 over that section isn't quite what it used to be. |
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Post by greg on Oct 18, 2024 18:18:34 GMT
Some Changes to the 25: Route 25 - Stratford Bus Station to Oxford Circus (6-7 bph) Route (??) - Ilford, Hainault Street to Aldgate Bus Station (7-8 bph) The 8 and 425 can stay the same to help the overlapping routes. 86 extended west to Bow Church or even the likes of Old Ford, Roman Road Market instead of a new route, I think would be better |
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Post by enviroPB on Oct 18, 2024 18:57:42 GMT
Some Changes to the 25: Route 25 - Stratford Bus Station to Oxford Circus (6-7 bph) Route (??) - Ilford, Hainault Street to Aldgate Bus Station (7-8 bph) The 8 and 425 can stay the same to help the overlapping routes. Not sure there is need for another route between Stratford and Mile End. Usage of the 25 over that section isn't quite what it used to be. That's because TfL heavily strived off the usage. There is an argument to be made that if the 25 pre 2018 was restored, passengers would return. Some Changes to the 25: Route 25 - Stratford Bus Station to Oxford Circus (6-7 bph) Route (??) - Ilford, Hainault Street to Aldgate Bus Station (7-8 bph) The 8 and 425 can stay the same to help the overlapping routes. 86 extended west to Bow Church or even the likes of Old Ford, Roman Road Market instead of a new route, I think would be better Apart from the 25, there is spare capacity from other routes (276, 425, D8) along Stratford High Street. At a push when delays are horrible, passengers make use of the 108 and walk from Stratford City. The 86 is not needed to Bow Church. I actually think Trafalgax's proposal is sensible and what should have happened to the 25. A route 13 from Oxford Circus to Stratford would work well, and if the 25 from Aldgate to Ilford has a high enough frequency, the 425 can be restored to terminating at Stratford or Stratford City depending on space restrictions at the main bus station. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 18, 2024 19:08:13 GMT
Not sure there is need for another route between Stratford and Mile End. Usage of the 25 over that section isn't quite what it used to be. That's because TfL heavily strived off the usage. There is an argument to be made that if the 25 pre 2018 was restored, passengers would return. 86 extended west to Bow Church or even the likes of Old Ford, Roman Road Market instead of a new route, I think would be better Apart from the 25, there is spare capacity from other routes (276, 425, D8) along Stratford High Street. At a push when delays are horrible, passengers make use of the 108 and walk from Stratford City. The 86 is not needed to Bow Church. I actually think Trafalgax's proposal is sensible and what should have happened to the 25. A route 13 from Oxford Circus to Stratford would work well, and if the 25 from Aldgate to Ilford has a high enough frequency, the 425 can be restored to terminating at Stratford or Stratford City depending on space restrictions at the main bus station. I think for many of us that was the split that we really expected to happen 20 years ago with an Ilford to Aldgate route and the 25 become just Stratford to Oxford Circus. |
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Oct 18, 2024 19:26:42 GMT
92’s current max running time is 77 minutes, let’s say you subtract 5 minutes because of the withdrawal between Wembley Stadium and St Raphael’s North and add 25 minutes to 92’s running time, it would be a total of maximum 97-98 minutes there about which is and should be fine. Is the 92 still suffering from issues with the traffic around Greenford Station & the roundabout? If so I would be entirely against altering the route in any way, even if it would be useful such as an extension to Neasden Station. No place to terminate around Neasden Station would have to go to, Church End, Willesden Bus Garage, Craven Park or Neasden Shopping Centre. But I do think the 92 should terminate in a more useful place than Brent Park eastbound though. I think a Willesden extension should be considered as it would be a more direct link than the 206, which is very indirect. |
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Oct 18, 2024 19:32:03 GMT
I would leave the 18 as it is, but I’m in support of your 182 extension (rerouting) to Willesden Junction, you could possibly even extend the 182 to Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury’s or Westbourne Park via 18’s way then 23’s way. I think it would be better to reroute the 92 to Brent Cross Shopping Centre instead of the 483 to connect new places such as Greenford to Wembley Park, Neasden and Brent Cross. You can also extend the H17 to St Raphael’s North to replace 92’s section. The 182 is already close to 100 minutes max running time under it's current routing. Even with diverting it from Brent Cross and extending it to Willesden Junction, it would likely end up more than 100 minutes and as for Ladbroke Grove, with all due respect, that's wishful thinking to run a 182 from Harrow Weald to Ladbroke Grove. I would strongly suggest to yourself to use londonbusroutes.net to give yourself an idea of running times of routes. The 182 terminating at Willesden Junction would be alot shorter than the current routing to Brent Cross as it would avoid Wembley Park, Neasden Underpass and Staples Corner and the traffic between Staples Corner to Brent Cross. As avoiding Wembley Park and not going on Empire Way anymore it would be less prone to event day traffic as well, than in its current form. Ladbroke Grove is probably just as feasible as Brent Cross if not slightly shorter ngl. There arent as many traffic hotspot its just really the road structure around Harlesden really. And the north circular over Stonebridge is much less prone to traffic than Neasden. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 18, 2024 19:34:39 GMT
Some Changes to the 25: Route 25 - Stratford Bus Station to Oxford Circus (6-7 bph) Route (??) - Ilford, Hainault Street to Aldgate Bus Station (7-8 bph) The 8 and 425 can stay the same to help the overlapping routes. I would suggest to just extend the 8 to Stratford and Oxford Circus, then leave the 25 as it is. |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 18, 2024 21:08:00 GMT
Hampstead area restructure:7 - Extended from East Acton to Acton High Street via the 70. Frequency increased to every 10 minutes. 70 - Withdrawn between Chiswick Park and Bayswater, replaced by the extended 7 and existing routes 440/E3. Instead extended from Bayswater to Hampstead Heath (South End Green), via Bishops Bridge Road, then the 46 to Swiss Cottage and C11 to Hampstead Heath. Providing new links across Hyde Park from Paddington to South Kensington. 46 - Revised to operate between Kings Cross and Brent Cross Shopping Centre, via existing route to Swiss Cottage then the C11. Creating new links between West Hampstead, Hampstead Village and Camden. Could also consider diverting via Blackburn Road with a bus gate installed (serving new developments there). C11 - Withdrawn. Replaced by revised 46 and 310. 210 - Diverted between Archway and Finsbury Park via Holloway, and extended from Finsbury Park to Stamford Hill. Replaces the 310's links with extra capacity. 310 - Revised to operate between Golders Green and Finsbury Park, via the 268 to Hampstead (Royal Free), C11 to Parliament Hill, 214 to Highgate Village and existing route through Archway and Crouch Hill to Finsbury Park. Frequency increased to every 10-12 minutes. Directly linking Hampstead to Highgate, plus other new links. 268 - Frequency reduced to every 20 minutes. Could also consider diverting between Golders Green and Hampstead via West Heath Road (with the 310 continuing to serve North End Road). 40 - Cut back to City Thameslink, and instead extended to Camden Town, via the 17 to Kings Cross, 390 to York Way and 274 to Camden. Creating new links serving redevelopments at Canal Reach, plus partly replacing the 46's link between Camden Town and Holborn Circus. Frequency reduced to every 12 minutes. 17 - Diverted between Holborn Circus and Mansion House via St Pauls Station (instead of Ludgate Circus), replacing the 46's link from Kings Cross to St Barts. 133 - Restored to Liverpool Street, with the 17 linking London Bridge to St Pauls and Chancery Lane. 214 - Revised to operate between Highgate Village and Aldgate, via Highgate High Street, Dartmouth Park Hill, Fortress Road, Kentish Town Station, then existing route to Old Street, then the 205 to Shoreditch and 242 to Aldgate. Converted to DDs, and frequency reduced to every 10 minutes. Links to Parliament Hill covered by the 88/310. Rerouteing to Aldgate creates new links to the area around Commercial Street. Could alternatively continue further east to terminate at Whitechapel (instead of Aldgate). 205 - Diverted between Old Street and Liverpool Street via Moorgate. Links to Shoreditch covered by the 8/135/214. I don't know if the loss of the 70 to Chiswick Business Park would cause any problems but the Hampstead Heath proposal would certainly be useful. The 40 would also be a useful Camden Town to South London link. A good set of proposals, I can't see anything that I would disagree with. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 18, 2024 21:31:45 GMT
Hampstead area restructure:7 - Extended from East Acton to Acton High Street via the 70. Frequency increased to every 10 minutes. 70 - Withdrawn between Chiswick Park and Bayswater, replaced by the extended 7 and existing routes 440/E3. Instead extended from Bayswater to Hampstead Heath (South End Green), via Bishops Bridge Road, then the 46 to Swiss Cottage and C11 to Hampstead Heath. Providing new links across Hyde Park from Paddington to South Kensington. 46 - Revised to operate between Kings Cross and Brent Cross Shopping Centre, via existing route to Swiss Cottage then the C11. Creating new links between West Hampstead, Hampstead Village and Camden. Could also consider diverting via Blackburn Road with a bus gate installed (serving new developments there). C11 - Withdrawn. Replaced by revised 46 and 310. 210 - Diverted between Archway and Finsbury Park via Holloway, and extended from Finsbury Park to Stamford Hill. Replaces the 310's links with extra capacity. 310 - Revised to operate between Golders Green and Finsbury Park, via the 268 to Hampstead (Royal Free), C11 to Parliament Hill, 214 to Highgate Village and existing route through Archway and Crouch Hill to Finsbury Park. Frequency increased to every 10-12 minutes. Directly linking Hampstead to Highgate, plus other new links. 268 - Frequency reduced to every 20 minutes. Could also consider diverting between Golders Green and Hampstead via West Heath Road (with the 310 continuing to serve North End Road). 40 - Cut back to City Thameslink, and instead extended to Camden Town, via the 17 to Kings Cross, 390 to York Way and 274 to Camden. Creating new links serving redevelopments at Canal Reach, plus partly replacing the 46's link between Camden Town and Holborn Circus. Frequency reduced to every 12 minutes. 17 - Diverted between Holborn Circus and Mansion House via St Pauls Station (instead of Ludgate Circus), replacing the 46's link from Kings Cross to St Barts. 133 - Restored to Liverpool Street, with the 17 linking London Bridge to St Pauls and Chancery Lane. 214 - Revised to operate between Highgate Village and Aldgate, via Highgate High Street, Dartmouth Park Hill, Fortress Road, Kentish Town Station, then existing route to Old Street, then the 205 to Shoreditch and 242 to Aldgate. Converted to DDs, and frequency reduced to every 10 minutes. Links to Parliament Hill covered by the 88/310. Rerouteing to Aldgate creates new links to the area around Commercial Street. Could alternatively continue further east to terminate at Whitechapel (instead of Aldgate). 205 - Diverted between Old Street and Liverpool Street via Moorgate. Links to Shoreditch covered by the 8/135/214. I don't know if the loss of the 70 to Chiswick Business Park would cause any problems but the Hampstead Heath proposal would certainly be useful. The 40 would also be a useful Camden Town to South London link. A good set of proposals, I can't see anything that I would disagree with. The fact that the 17 starts right outside LB Station like the 521 and with empty buses to fill up meant really that the 17 should have been the replacement for the 521 and in reality it probably is for most and they walk the rest of the way from Chancery Lane. |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 18, 2024 21:42:11 GMT
Some Changes to the 25: Route 25 - Stratford Bus Station to Oxford Circus (6-7 bph) Route (??) - Ilford, Hainault Street to Aldgate Bus Station (7-8 bph) The 8 and 425 can stay the same to help the overlapping routes. I like your proposed 25 change from Oxford Circus to Stratford. But I would suggest that 425 runs from Stratford to Meridian Water and is withdrawn between Stratford and Ilford, increasing the frequency on the 86 and also taking the Elizabeth Line as an alternative. |
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ZiyQ
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I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
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Post by ZiyQ on Oct 18, 2024 22:08:28 GMT
Some Changes to the 25: Route 25 - Stratford Bus Station to Oxford Circus (6-7 bph) Route (??) - Ilford, Hainault Street to Aldgate Bus Station (7-8 bph) The 8 and 425 can stay the same to help the overlapping routes. I like your proposed 25 change from Oxford Circus to Stratford. But I would suggest that 425 runs from Stratford to Meridian Water and is withdrawn between Stratford and Ilford, increasing the frequency on the 86 and also taking the Elizabeth Line as an alternative. I think the 425 was proposed to be extended in the Upper Lea Valley Opportunity Area Planning Framework (Page 61) in 2013, which had a vast variety of ambitious bus changes for the area (I think we should focus on the 5bph 491 first though), though it was only to Tottenham Hale at that point. I agree that a lot of parts of North London are poorly linked to the East (especially Stratford), so a 425 extension, as you proposed, would definitely be great. A 349 to Stratford via Meridian Water would also be great, but it's best not to get into fantasy land here  |
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