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Post by sdaniel on Oct 19, 2024 14:05:26 GMT
On a side note it makes for somewhat depressing reading seeing how many frequency cuts have been made since 2013 in inner London. I’m sure they will be looking at extending routes 41, 476 and W3 to Meridian Water anyway due to the Meridian Water development. |
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Post by Connor on Oct 19, 2024 14:29:14 GMT
I thought I'd propose a few changes to routes in the Kidbrooke/Shooters Hill area, both areas that from my observations that have got much busier in recent years yet have not seem much improvement in bus services (with the exception of the 335 a few years back). 89 - New Cross Bus Garage to Bexleyheath Bus GarageThe 89 would be rerouted at Shooters Hill Road to continue down the A2 to Deptford Bridge DLR Station, New Cross Station/ New Cross Gate Station and NX bus garage. A route from the Shooters Hill corridor across Blackheath to connect with Deptford and New Cross would be very useful, and would also assist the very busy 53 along it's lone section. Blackheath to New Cross is prone to traffic so the route would be cut back from Slade Green Station to BX, with that section replaced by an extension of the 269. 178 - Lewisham Station to Woodlands EstateThe 178 would be curtailed at Shooters Hill Road to continue to Blackheath Village and Lewisham Station, replacing the 89 over this section. As a result of the route being much shorter than its current form, it would be extended at the Woolwich end, via Woolwich Elizabeth line Station, Plumstead Road, Plumstead Station, Griffin Road, Waverley Crescent, Plumstead Common then via the current 291 via the Woodlands Estate loop. This would allow the 291 to be extended further in the south east direction- (better use of resources but that's a conversation for another day) while also alleviating overcrowding on the 51/53/291. 244 - Thamesmead Town Centre to Kidbrooke, Moorefield Way. Route curtailed away from Queen Elizabeth Hospital and extended to Kidbrooke, Moorfield Way via Corelli Road, Broad Walk (served by a bus route for the first time), Rochester Way/Kidbrooke Way, Kidbrooke Station, Tudway Road loop and terminating at the 335/B16 bus stand. This maintains the Kidbrooke to Woolwich link lost by the 178 changes, while taking a quicker route and serving a new area. Thamesmead to Abbey Wood section is cut with no replacement due to the sufficient buses on that section. 335 - North Greenwich to Lewisham StationA simple extention of this short route, replacing the current 178 along Kidbrooke Park Road, Kidbrooke Station, Eltham Road to Lewisham Station. Rerouted northbound via Kidbrooke Park Road instead of Rochester Way to follow the 178 instead of the 132. I think it would also be worth looking to reroute to fully use Weigall Road, giving it a bus service and making the route slightly more direct though I'm not familiar if there any any road restrictions in that area. B16 - Bexleyheath Bus Garage to North Greenwich This is to assist the very busy 132 between North Greenwich and Eltham. From Eltham Road, it would go straight up Kidbrooke Park Road (eliminating the Tudway Road loop and the Moorehead Way section), stopping at Kidbrooke Station/ Cranfield Walk, then onto the A2 non-stop to Blackwall Lane, with just a stop at Boord Street before terminating at Noeth Greenwich. This creates an even faster link between North Greenwich than the 335. These suggestions look reasonable but I'd send the 178 to Thamesmead via the 472 route just because it would provide Lewisham and Thamesmead with a direct link. That would also be a good change to make to the 178. I could be wrong but I don't think that Woolwich needs another route to Thamesmead (you already have the 244/301/472/177. I would instead cut the 301 back to Thamesmead and extend the 178 in it's place. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 19, 2024 15:20:04 GMT
I thought I'd propose a few changes to routes in the Kidbrooke/Shooters Hill area, both areas that from my observations that have got much busier in recent years yet have not seem much improvement in bus services (with the exception of the 335 a few years back). 89 - New Cross Bus Garage to Bexleyheath Bus GarageThe 89 would be rerouted at Shooters Hill Road to continue down the A2 to Deptford Bridge DLR Station, New Cross Station/ New Cross Gate Station and NX bus garage. A route from the Shooters Hill corridor across Blackheath to connect with Deptford and New Cross would be very useful, and would also assist the very busy 53 along it's lone section. Blackheath to New Cross is prone to traffic so the route would be cut back from Slade Green Station to BX, with that section replaced by an extension of the 269. . The 269 offers nothing new to the Slade Green section of the 89 - if you have to replace the 89 here, it should be with a route that approaches Bexleyheath from the west, and I’m not sure anything else is suitable apart from the 89 itself. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2024 15:20:27 GMT
I fail to understand the correlation between 20mph zones & LTN’s with cutting frequencies. Not a fan of either policy but they don’t necessarily impact on cutting a routes frequency back. The working from home argument is a factor for sure but I’m not sure it’s had as big an impact as it was assumed it would do - I still see plenty of very busy buses to & from Central London including the X68 & now SL6 which some suggested should of been axed. Inner London should never have seen almost all the cuts that were made under the last two mayors and it has set it back big time. There are so many routes in this area (as well as in Outer London) that still need increases and austerity, as has been proven so many times, doesn’t work and just leads to decline. Well if anything is going to make people more likely to switch to the train , Elizabeth line etc it's a slow bus service. I can speak for myself on that one. I agree with that but that still shouldn’t affect frequency cuts - that should affect reliability. Cutting just exacerbates those problems rather than fixes anything. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 19, 2024 15:29:20 GMT
Well if anything is going to make people more likely to switch to the train , Elizabeth line etc it's a slow bus service. I can speak for myself on that one. I agree with that but that still shouldn’t affect frequency cuts - that should affect reliability. Cutting just exacerbates those problems rather than fixes anything. But if less people use a service I don't understand where the money comes from to keep it every 6 mins let's say as opposed to dropping it to every 8 mins. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2024 15:34:41 GMT
I agree with that but that still shouldn’t affect frequency cuts - that should affect reliability. Cutting just exacerbates those problems rather than fixes anything. But if less people use a service I don't understand where the money comes from to keep it every 6 mins let's say as opposed to dropping it to every 8 mins. If you cut the frequency, less people will also use it meaning less money. Once you cut, it becomes a bad habit IMO so where do you stop? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 19, 2024 15:37:53 GMT
But if less people use a service I don't understand where the money comes from to keep it every 6 mins let's say as opposed to dropping it to every 8 mins. If you cut the frequency, less people will also use it meaning less money. Once you cut, it becomes a bad habit IMO so where do you stop? Ok |
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Post by Connor on Oct 20, 2024 1:47:39 GMT
I thought I'd propose a few changes to routes in the Kidbrooke/Shooters Hill area, both areas that from my observations that have got much busier in recent years yet have not seem much improvement in bus services (with the exception of the 335 a few years back). 89 - New Cross Bus Garage to Bexleyheath Bus GarageThe 89 would be rerouted at Shooters Hill Road to continue down the A2 to Deptford Bridge DLR Station, New Cross Station/ New Cross Gate Station and NX bus garage. A route from the Shooters Hill corridor across Blackheath to connect with Deptford and New Cross would be very useful, and would also assist the very busy 53 along it's lone section. Blackheath to New Cross is prone to traffic so the route would be cut back from Slade Green Station to BX, with that section replaced by an extension of the 269. . The 269 offers nothing new to the Slade Green section of the 89 - if you have to replace the 89 here, it should be with a route that approaches Bexleyheath from the west, and I’m not sure anything else is suitable apart from the 89 itself. Why should the 89 replacement for the Slade Green section have to come from west of Bexleyheath? From my observations, the majority of users from Slade Green alight at Bexleyheath Clock Tower and likewise from the Lewisham direction. Not to mention that the Bexleyheath/Woolwich lines provide much faster connections into London. |
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Post by Connor on Oct 20, 2024 1:54:25 GMT
These suggestions look reasonable but I'd send the 178 to Thamesmead via the 472 route just because it would provide Lewisham and Thamesmead with a direct link. The 89 barely even makes it to Lewisham in peak times so I disagree with extending it. The 178 to Thamesmead I agree removing it from Lewisham is a bad idea. 335 I disagree and should not be extended to Lewisham overall it seems to pop up a lot that the 335 is too short look how many years the W7 has worked lol… I got on one the other day that was already half full at the Royal Standard and was full by Westcombe Park Station. The North Greenwich area will definitely need more bus routes when those new flats are live so some new routes may be needed with existing ones unchanged. Funny enough the amount of Idiots on the Londoner Facebook when the B16 was recently awarded were complaining why is it not being merged with the 335 what a laughing stock. 244 & 291 shouldn’t be changed if anything the 244 should be double decked. To assist the 132 a new route 332 should be created between Eltham Station-Beckton Station via the Silvertown Tunnel. My proposals would not remove the 178 from Lewisham, and the 89 would be cut back to Bexleyheath to allow the extension east to New Cross Gate. I hear your point about the 335 but I have to disagree...the patronage on the W7 has been steadily dropping, hence the frequency cuts. And while the 335 gets busy at North Greenwich, it's nowhere (in general) as busy as the other routes there, perhaps with exception of the 188/129. Why shouldn't short frequent routes like 291 and 335 be extended? I don't think that NG bus station can cope with many more new routes due to stand space, what changes would you like to see happen in the north Greenwich area? |
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 20, 2024 7:43:26 GMT
The 269 offers nothing new to the Slade Green section of the 89 - if you have to replace the 89 here, it should be with a route that approaches Bexleyheath from the west, and I’m not sure anything else is suitable apart from the 89 itself. Why should the 89 replacement for the Slade Green section have to come from west of Bexleyheath? From my observations, the majority of users from Slade Green alight at Bexleyheath Clock Tower and likewise from the Lewisham direction. Not to mention that the Bexleyheath/Woolwich lines provide much faster connections into London. There’s a decent amount of cross Bexleyheath traffic on the 89 - it isn’t just Slade Green you need to think about. Sending the 269 there will just cause more pax churn at Bexleyheath, and I’m also deeply sceptical that extending the 89 to New Cross adds anything useful either. The 89 is best, imo, left alone. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Oct 20, 2024 8:00:30 GMT
Some Changes to the 25: Route 25 - Stratford Bus Station to Oxford Circus (6-7 bph) Route (??) - Ilford, Hainault Street to Aldgate Bus Station (7-8 bph) The 8 and 425 can stay the same to help the overlapping routes. This is my first time talking here in this thread and honestly some suggestions here actually make me laugh. there in literally no need for another route in this section… Romford Road can be awfully congested as it is and thats just with 3 bus routes… Anyway without using the 25, via bus its simply just the 425 and then using 205 from Bow… 25 already has 3 support routes so it doesnt need another. And if you’re that assistant on having support to the 25 the Tube literally exists from Ilford to Central London!!! also 25 was cut from Oxford Circus for a reason it was way too long. Dont see everyones obsession with wanting it back there… I think the reason why everyone wants the 25 to return to Oxford Circus is that City Thameslink is such a useless terminus. I think if the 25 was cut back to TCR or Holborn only it would have been more justified. Personally I would have used the 8 to replace the withdrawn 521 (this has the benefit of the 8’s buses starting empty in Waterloo & would have kept the Waterloo-Liverpool St link that was lost when the 26 was rerouted) & had the 25 at TCR. Most of the 25’s problems with reliability was on that stretch between Oxford Circus & TCR. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 20, 2024 8:44:36 GMT
This is my first time talking here in this thread and honestly some suggestions here actually make me laugh. there in literally no need for another route in this section… Romford Road can be awfully congested as it is and thats just with 3 bus routes… Anyway without using the 25, via bus its simply just the 425 and then using 205 from Bow… 25 already has 3 support routes so it doesnt need another. And if you’re that assistant on having support to the 25 the Tube literally exists from Ilford to Central London!!! also 25 was cut from Oxford Circus for a reason it was way too long. Dont see everyones obsession with wanting it back there… I think the reason why everyone wants the 25 to return to Oxford Circus is that City Thameslink is such a useless terminus. I think if the 25 was cut back to TCR or Holborn only it would have been more justified. Personally I would have used the 8 to replace the withdrawn 521 (this has the benefit of the 8’s buses starting empty in Waterloo & would have kept the Waterloo-Liverpool St link that was lost when the 26 was rerouted) & had the 25 at TCR. Most of the 25’s problems with reliability was on that stretch between Oxford Circus & TCR. I think at one point there was about 20 mins scheduled between TCR and the stand at Holles Street. Whereas the 8 now does atleast turn out at TCR and within minutes is already approaching Holborn and Holborn Circus etc as opposed to bumper to bumper along Oxford Street. |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 20, 2024 11:49:40 GMT
Tottenham/Meridian Water/Stratford Bus Changes:
41: Archway - Chingford Mount: (extended to Chingford Mount via Blackhorse Road then 158’s route to Chingford Mount)
158: Stratford - Meridian Water (diverted/rerouted via Blackhorse Road, Tottenham Hale then Meridian Water)
N41: Trafalgar Square - Chingford Mount: (extended to Chingford Mount via Blackhorse Road then 158’s route to Chingford Mount)
158 is most likely the best and direct bus to reroute to Meridian Water to create a direct link between Stratford and Meridian Water. Also 41’s extension to Chingford gains to have some benefits, such as direct links from Archway to the north of Walthamstow and parts of east london such as Chingford.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 20, 2024 12:04:45 GMT
Tottenham/Meridian Water/Stratford Bus Changes: 41: Archway - Chingford Mount: (extended to Chingford Mount via Blackhorse Road then 158’s route to Chingford Mount) 158: Stratford - Meridian Water (diverted/rerouted via Blackhorse Road, Tottenham Hale then Meridian Water) N41: Trafalgar Square - Chingford Mount: (extended to Chingford Mount via Blackhorse Road then 158’s route to Chingford Mount) 158 is most likely the best and direct bus to reroute to Meridian Water to create a direct link between Stratford and Meridian Water. Also 41’s extension to Chingford gains to have some benefits, such as direct links from Archway to the north of Walthamstow and parts of east london such as Chingford. Only downside would be the 41 is still quite an intense frequency of every 6 mins for most of the day. It's one of those short but busy routes no doubt due to the middle of the route being tubeless and everyone heading to either Archway, Turnpike Lane or Seven Sisters. |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 20, 2024 12:14:07 GMT
Tottenham/Meridian Water/Stratford Bus Changes: 41: Archway - Chingford Mount: (extended to Chingford Mount via Blackhorse Road then 158’s route to Chingford Mount) 158: Stratford - Meridian Water (diverted/rerouted via Blackhorse Road, Tottenham Hale then Meridian Water) N41: Trafalgar Square - Chingford Mount: (extended to Chingford Mount via Blackhorse Road then 158’s route to Chingford Mount) 158 is most likely the best and direct bus to reroute to Meridian Water to create a direct link between Stratford and Meridian Water. Also 41’s extension to Chingford gains to have some benefits, such as direct links from Archway to the north of Walthamstow and parts of east london such as Chingford. Only downside would be the 41 is still quite an intense frequency of every 6 mins for most of the day. It's one of those short but busy routes no doubt due to the middle of the route being tubeless and everyone heading to either Archway, Turnpike Lane or Seven Sisters. Yeah I get what you mean. Route 76 is another potential option but I think that route is too long to extend to Chingford Mount so that’s why I think 41 is most likely the best option for this case. |
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