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Post by greenboy on Oct 20, 2024 19:38:53 GMT
These suggestions look reasonable but I'd send the 178 to Thamesmead via the 472 route just because it would provide Lewisham and Thamesmead with a direct link. That would also be a good change to make to the 178. I could be wrong but I don't think that Woolwich needs another route to Thamesmead (you already have the 244/301/472/177. I would instead cut the 301 back to Thamesmead and extend the 178 in it's place. I agree about the 178 being extended to Thamesmead, the 301 would be left as a very short route and could possibly be replaced by extending the 269 to Thamesmead. I can see some merit in your suggested rerouting of the 89 but I suspect there would be a lot of opposition to the loss of the Lewisham link. |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 20, 2024 19:43:45 GMT
I agree with that but that still shouldn’t affect frequency cuts - that should affect reliability. Cutting just exacerbates those problems rather than fixes anything. But if less people use a service I don't understand where the money comes from to keep it every 6 mins let's say as opposed to dropping it to every 8 mins. Exactly, people expect services to be increased if more people are using it and by the same logic services have to be reduced if less people are using it, supply and demand. |
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Post by mb171 on Oct 20, 2024 21:34:19 GMT
That would also be a good change to make to the 178. I could be wrong but I don't think that Woolwich needs another route to Thamesmead (you already have the 244/301/472/177. I would instead cut the 301 back to Thamesmead and extend the 178 in it's place. I agree about the 178 being extended to Thamesmead, the 301 would be left as a very short route and could possibly be replaced by extending the 269 to Thamesmead. I can see some merit in your suggested rerouting of the 89 but I suspect there would be a lot of opposition to the loss of the Lewisham link. There would be no point of extending the 269 to Thamesmead. 1) too unreliable for an all stops route. 2) SL3 already covers that section between Thamesmead and Bexleyheath. 3) 301 was introduced to replace the section left from the B11 between Abbey Wood and Thamesmead. 4) There are already other routes like 229 (although indirect) and 401. Thamesmead does not need the 269, especially as its express version already covers that section. 89 does not need to be changed. It's fine as it is. Extending it to New Cross is not a good idea... as a daily user of the route 89 already experiences traffic around Blackheath and extending it past Lewisham will only make it worse as Deptford and New Cross are infamous for large quantities of traffic. As for the other... I'd leave it as well because it will leave some parts of Northumberland Heath without a bus service. The 269 has no need to go Slade Green because where its coming from there's no demand. All routes have a purpose - 269s purpose is to connect Bexleyheath to Bromley, two major town centres. Now Compare that to 89, connecting a major area to residential area. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Oct 20, 2024 21:45:27 GMT
That would also be a good change to make to the 178. I could be wrong but I don't think that Woolwich needs another route to Thamesmead (you already have the 244/301/472/177. I would instead cut the 301 back to Thamesmead and extend the 178 in it's place. I agree about the 178 being extended to Thamesmead, the 301 would be left as a very short route and could possibly be replaced by extending the 269 to Thamesmead. I can see some merit in your suggested rerouting of the 89 but I suspect there would be a lot of opposition to the loss of the Lewisham link. Personally I wouldn’t extend the 269 to Thamesmead. I’d rather extend the 301 via the 229 to Queen Mary’s Hospital & cut the 229 back to Bexleyheath in this scenario. The 229’s reliability would improve as it does take the very long way via Erith to get to Thamesmead. |
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Post by enviroPB on Oct 21, 2024 15:59:57 GMT
Tottenham/Meridian Water/Stratford Bus Changes: 41: Archway - Chingford Mount: (extended to Chingford Mount via Blackhorse Road then 158’s route to Chingford Mount) 158: Stratford - Meridian Water (diverted/rerouted via Blackhorse Road, Tottenham Hale then Meridian Water) N41: Trafalgar Square - Chingford Mount: (extended to Chingford Mount via Blackhorse Road then 158’s route to Chingford Mount) 158 is most likely the best and direct bus to reroute to Meridian Water to create a direct link between Stratford and Meridian Water. Also 41’s extension to Chingford gains to have some benefits, such as direct links from Archway to the north of Walthamstow and parts of east london such as Chingford. Only downside would be the 41 is still quite an intense frequency of every 6 mins for most of the day. It's one of those short but busy routes no doubt due to the middle of the route being tubeless and everyone heading to either Archway, Turnpike Lane or Seven Sisters. I don't know what you mean by 'intense' as the 158 also has a 6 minute frequency. So long as the 158 doesn't lose its 24 hour status, then the 41/158 swap works well. Only Higham Hill residents would lose out to a direct bus link to Stratford, though they could use the 41 to Tottenham Hale for train services to Stratford. It's pretty disappointing Stratford and Tottenham don't have a direct bus service, so I would welcome the Meridian Water changes if it can finally create that link. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Oct 21, 2024 16:35:02 GMT
Only downside would be the 41 is still quite an intense frequency of every 6 mins for most of the day. It's one of those short but busy routes no doubt due to the middle of the route being tubeless and everyone heading to either Archway, Turnpike Lane or Seven Sisters. I don't know what you mean by 'intense' as the 158 also has a 6 minute frequency. So long as the 158 doesn't lose its 24 hour status, then the 41/158 swap works well. Only Higham Hill residents would lose out to a direct bus link to Stratford, though they could use the 41 to Tottenham Hale for train services to Stratford. It's pretty disappointing Stratford and Tottenham don't have a direct bus service, so I would welcome the Meridian Water changes if it can finally create that link. I think the 230 should be rerouted to Stratford & the 41/158 can be left as they are. As the 230 is likely to receive heavier demand as a result of it both being rerouted to Stratford & the 123 soon being cutback to Turnpike Lane I would increase the frequency to 6bph. I would have it run on its present routing between Wood Green & Leyton Bakers Arms, then all the way down Leyton Road to Stratford Bus Station. The 357 can easily be extended to Upper Walthamstow to cover that section of the 230. This would also remove a route off the overbussed Walthamstow-Whipps Cross corridor. |
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Post by enviroPB on Oct 21, 2024 17:08:04 GMT
I don't know what you mean by 'intense' as the 158 also has a 6 minute frequency. So long as the 158 doesn't lose its 24 hour status, then the 41/158 swap works well. Only Higham Hill residents would lose out to a direct bus link to Stratford, though they could use the 41 to Tottenham Hale for train services to Stratford. It's pretty disappointing Stratford and Tottenham don't have a direct bus service, so I would welcome the Meridian Water changes if it can finally create that link. I think the 230 should be rerouted to Stratford & the 41/158 can be left as they are. As the 230 is likely to receive heavier demand as a result of it both being rerouted to Stratford & the 123 soon being cutback to Turnpike Lane I would increase the frequency to 6bph. I would have it run on its present routing between Wood Green & Leyton Bakers Arms, then all the way down Leyton Road to Stratford Bus Station. The 357 can easily be extended to Upper Walthamstow to cover that section of the 230. This would also remove a route off the overbussed Walthamstow-Whipps Cross corridor. Here's me thinking the Meridian Water proposals were sensible. 🙄 I don't have any clue how Whipps Cross being overbussed is linked to Meridian Water, apart from the 230 getting a mild increase. These two birds one stone approach isn't beneficial to the network as a whole. It shouldn't have to be stated that the 158 is a better option than the 230. The 158 will be quicker, the 230 does face some serious delays. I mean it's not called Selborne Walk for nothing!  |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 21, 2024 18:36:25 GMT
Only downside would be the 41 is still quite an intense frequency of every 6 mins for most of the day. It's one of those short but busy routes no doubt due to the middle of the route being tubeless and everyone heading to either Archway, Turnpike Lane or Seven Sisters. I don't know what you mean by 'intense' as the 158 also has a 6 minute frequency. So long as the 158 doesn't lose its 24 hour status, then the 41/158 swap works well. Only Higham Hill residents would lose out to a direct bus link to Stratford, though they could use the 41 to Tottenham Hale for train services to Stratford. It's pretty disappointing Stratford and Tottenham don't have a direct bus service, so I would welcome the Meridian Water changes if it can finally create that link. Or the Higham Hill residents can just take the 41 down to Blackhorse Road then change for the 158 to Stratford from there or just take the 41 to Crooked Billed Roundabout then take the 97 or the new superloop route when it comes out. Still many options over there. |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 21, 2024 18:41:01 GMT
I don't know what you mean by 'intense' as the 158 also has a 6 minute frequency. So long as the 158 doesn't lose its 24 hour status, then the 41/158 swap works well. Only Higham Hill residents would lose out to a direct bus link to Stratford, though they could use the 41 to Tottenham Hale for train services to Stratford. It's pretty disappointing Stratford and Tottenham don't have a direct bus service, so I would welcome the Meridian Water changes if it can finally create that link. I think the 230 should be rerouted to Stratford & the 41/158 can be left as they are. As the 230 is likely to receive heavier demand as a result of it both being rerouted to Stratford & the 123 soon being cutback to Turnpike Lane I would increase the frequency to 6bph. I would have it run on its present routing between Wood Green & Leyton Bakers Arms, then all the way down Leyton Road to Stratford Bus Station. The 357 can easily be extended to Upper Walthamstow to cover that section of the 230. This would also remove a route off the overbussed Walthamstow-Whipps Cross corridor. If you reroute the 230 to Stratford then the 230 just mirrors the 69 half the way, thereby making the 69 pretty meaningless between Stratford and Walthamstow. Not to mention the 257 also runs between Stratford and Walthamstow Central. Unless you’re planning to extend 69 further down south than Canning Town and curtail it to Stratford then I’m against your 230 extension. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 21, 2024 18:45:58 GMT
I agree about the 178 being extended to Thamesmead, the 301 would be left as a very short route and could possibly be replaced by extending the 269 to Thamesmead. I can see some merit in your suggested rerouting of the 89 but I suspect there would be a lot of opposition to the loss of the Lewisham link. Personally I wouldn’t extend the 269 to Thamesmead. I’d rather extend the 301 via the 229 to Queen Mary’s Hospital & cut the 229 back to Bexleyheath in this scenario. The 229’s reliability would improve as it does take the very long way via Erith to get to Thamesmead. Your 229/301 proposal breaks a lot of links - notably Belvedere and Erith to Sidcup. It also makes the 301 a bit too long bearing in mind it also goes to Woolwich. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Oct 21, 2024 19:57:40 GMT
Personally I wouldn’t extend the 269 to Thamesmead. I’d rather extend the 301 via the 229 to Queen Mary’s Hospital & cut the 229 back to Bexleyheath in this scenario. The 229’s reliability would improve as it does take the very long way via Erith to get to Thamesmead. Your 229/301 proposal breaks a lot of links - notably Belvedere and Erith to Sidcup. It also makes the 301 a bit too long bearing in mind it also goes to Woolwich. The 301 was proposed to be cut back to Thamesmead with the Thamesmead-Woolwich section being replaced by the 178 extension. I don’t really see a lot of people travelling from Belvedere/Erith to Sidcup, from my observations of the 229 both people typically alight in Bexleyheath from either direction. |
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Post by towerman on Oct 21, 2024 21:22:42 GMT
When it first came out in the late 70s 230 was Manor House to Stratford.
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 21, 2024 21:57:12 GMT
Your 229/301 proposal breaks a lot of links - notably Belvedere and Erith to Sidcup. It also makes the 301 a bit too long bearing in mind it also goes to Woolwich. The 301 was proposed to be cut back to Thamesmead with the Thamesmead-Woolwich section being replaced by the 178 extension. I don’t really see a lot of people travelling from Belvedere/Erith to Sidcup, from my observations of the 229 both people typically alight in Bexleyheath from either direction. We’ll have to agree to disagree - I am a very regular 229 user and the cross Bexleyheath facility is popular. |
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djs76
Conductor
Posts: 109
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Post by djs76 on Oct 22, 2024 8:41:05 GMT
A few ideas in the Enfield area:
107 - Extended from New Barnet to Chase Farm Hospital via current 307 routing to Slades Hill then turn left onto The Ridgeway to terminate at the hospital. Provides the link to the hospital from the Barnet area which people seem to have been after for years. Slight frequency increase if required.
121 - Turnpike Lane Station to Brimsdown Station. Diverted after Ponders End to follow current 307 routing. Makes route shorter and reduces delays caused by the level crossing at Enfield Lock. See 421.
192 - Withdrawn between Meridian Water (Station/Tesco - not sure what its known as these days!) and Tottenham Hale. See new Superloop route below.
307 - Withdrawn, replaced by changes to 107, 121 and new Superloop route below.
NEW ROUTE 421- Enfield Town to Enfield Island Village. Replaces 121 over this section, although delays will still be experienced they become more localised which would hopefully improve reliability. Same frequencies as current 121.
NEW SUPERLOOP ROUTE - Barnet Hospital to Tottenham Hale, calling at the following points: High Barnet Station, New Barnet Station, East Barnet Village, Cat Hill Roundabout, Oakwood Station, Enfield Town/Church Street, Southbury Road/Great Cambridge Road, Great Cambridge Road/Church Street, Edmonton Green Station, Angel Corner, Meridian Water Station/Tesco then all stops to Tottenham Hale Station.
Replaces 307 over Barnet Hospital section, assists 107 between Barnet and Oakwood, creates new faster link between Enfield and Edmonton and replaces 192 over section to Tottenham Hale. Operated by DD's every 12 minutes.
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Post by mondraker275 on Oct 22, 2024 10:49:09 GMT
I think the 230 should be rerouted to Stratford & the 41/158 can be left as they are. As the 230 is likely to receive heavier demand as a result of it both being rerouted to Stratford & the 123 soon being cutback to Turnpike Lane I would increase the frequency to 6bph. I would have it run on its present routing between Wood Green & Leyton Bakers Arms, then all the way down Leyton Road to Stratford Bus Station. The 357 can easily be extended to Upper Walthamstow to cover that section of the 230. This would also remove a route off the overbussed Walthamstow-Whipps Cross corridor. If you reroute the 230 to Stratford then the 230 just mirrors the 69 half the way, thereby making the 69 pretty meaningless between Stratford and Walthamstow. Not to mention the 257 also runs between Stratford and Walthamstow Central. Unless you’re planning to extend 69 further down south than Canning Town and curtail it to Stratford then I’m against your 230 extension. 158 is very popular throughout its route and people take it long distances. Also with the idea you made it would mean Tottenham - Blackhorse Road would see an almighty bus increase for two areas that have a tube link for one stop. 230 is a shadow of itself. Poor interchange at Blackhorse Road, W11 now duplicating it between Walthamstow-Blackhorse Rd and it now being 15min route. That is a route that could do with some changes. You could send it down Markhouse Road, and then LBR, LBR station, Orient Way (limited stops) and the Stratford City via 308. This would avoid Walthamstow Central though. However, I would not do that and would simply scrap 310 and bring in a SL route between Meridian Water, Tottenham Hale, Stamford Hill, Clapton, LBR station, Orient Way, Stratford City. That is to have that connection. However, again, my preference has been for SL route to go from Meridian Water to Elephant & Castle via mainly 149. |
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