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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 9:28:36 GMT
2 Diverted to Baker Street 4 Diverted to London Bridge 6 Cut to Piccadilly Circus 9 Frequency increase extended to Liverpool Street Stn. 11 Withdrawn 12 Cut to Trafalgar Square 13 Diverted at Child’s Corner to run to Mill Hill via 113, terminate at Mill Hill Broadway. N13 would run to Victoria but via Oxford Street, Regent Street, Trafalgar Sq, Parliament Square. 14 Withdrawn 15 Extended to Oxford Circus. 16 Extended to Edgware 17 Peak frequency increase London Bridge to Holborn. 18 Diverted as per N18 to Trafalgar Square 22 Diverted at Chelsea to run via 345 to South Kensington Station then via 70 to Notting Hill Gate. 23 Withdrawn. 24 Withdrawn Victoria to Pimlico. 32 Withdrawn 70 Diverted at Kensington to run to Hammersmith Broadway. 74 Extended to Russell Sq via former 14 from Hyde Park Corner. 94 Withdrawn Oxford Circus to Piccadilly. 113 Edgware to Brent Cross via existing route then to Marble Arch via 189. 189 Withdrawn. 190 Extended to South Kensington via 430 311 New route Fulham Broadway to Oxford Circus via 11 to Sloane Sq then via 22 414 Extended to Roehampton Danebury Ave via former 430. Withdrawn north of Marble Arch. Night service introduced. 430 Withdrawn 452 Rerouted At Knightsbridge, to run via former 23 to Westbourne Park. 453 Withdrawn Trafalgar Square to Marylebone. 460 Frequency increase C2 New route, Waterloo to Pimlico via former 507 to Victoria then via 24 to Pimlico. 24/7 service. 507 Withdrawn. 521 Withdrawn ( I admit I haven’t given much thought to Stand Space..over to you all to pull apart , dissect, approve or Chuck out as garbage , enjoy !) Seems extreme.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 17, 2021 9:29:23 GMT
2 Diverted to Baker Street 4 Diverted to London Bridge 6 Cut to Piccadilly Circus 9 Frequency increase extended to Liverpool Street Stn. 11 Withdrawn 12 Cut to Trafalgar Square 13 Diverted at Child’s Corner to run to Mill Hill via 113, terminate at Mill Hill Broadway. N13 would run to Victoria but via Oxford Street, Regent Street, Trafalgar Sq, Parliament Square. 14 Withdrawn 15 Extended to Oxford Circus. 16 Extended to Edgware 17 Peak frequency increase London Bridge to Holborn. 18 Diverted as per N18 to Trafalgar Square 22 Diverted at Chelsea to run via 345 to South Kensington Station then via 70 to Notting Hill Gate. 23 Withdrawn. 24 Withdrawn Victoria to Pimlico. 32 Withdrawn 70 Diverted at Kensington to run to Hammersmith Broadway. 74 Extended to Russell Sq via former 14 from Hyde Park Corner. 94 Withdrawn Oxford Circus to Piccadilly. 113 Edgware to Brent Cross via existing route then to Marble Arch via 189. 189 Withdrawn. 190 Extended to South Kensington via 430 311 New route Fulham Broadway to Oxford Circus via 11 to Sloane Sq then via 22 414 Extended to Roehampton Danebury Ave via former 430. Withdrawn north of Marble Arch. Night service introduced. 430 Withdrawn 452 Rerouted At Knightsbridge, to run via former 23 to Westbourne Park. 453 Withdrawn Trafalgar Square to Marylebone. 460 Frequency increase C2 New route, Waterloo to Pimlico via former 507 to Victoria then via 24 to Pimlico. 24/7 service. 507 Withdrawn. 521 Withdrawn ( I admit I haven’t given much thought to Stand Space..over to you all to pull apart , dissect, approve or Chuck out as garbage , enjoy !) A lot of the changes are to do with central London not the suburbs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 9:55:06 GMT
2 Diverted to Baker Street 4 Diverted to London Bridge 6 Cut to Piccadilly Circus 9 Frequency increase extended to Liverpool Street Stn. 11 Withdrawn 12 Cut to Trafalgar Square 13 Diverted at Child’s Corner to run to Mill Hill via 113, terminate at Mill Hill Broadway. N13 would run to Victoria but via Oxford Street, Regent Street, Trafalgar Sq, Parliament Square. 14 Withdrawn 15 Extended to Oxford Circus. 16 Extended to Edgware 17 Peak frequency increase London Bridge to Holborn. 18 Diverted as per N18 to Trafalgar Square 22 Diverted at Chelsea to run via 345 to South Kensington Station then via 70 to Notting Hill Gate. 23 Withdrawn. 24 Withdrawn Victoria to Pimlico. 32 Withdrawn 70 Diverted at Kensington to run to Hammersmith Broadway. 74 Extended to Russell Sq via former 14 from Hyde Park Corner. 94 Withdrawn Oxford Circus to Piccadilly. 113 Edgware to Brent Cross via existing route then to Marble Arch via 189. 189 Withdrawn. 190 Extended to South Kensington via 430 311 New route Fulham Broadway to Oxford Circus via 11 to Sloane Sq then via 22 414 Extended to Roehampton Danebury Ave via former 430. Withdrawn north of Marble Arch. Night service introduced. 430 Withdrawn 452 Rerouted At Knightsbridge, to run via former 23 to Westbourne Park. 453 Withdrawn Trafalgar Square to Marylebone. 460 Frequency increase C2 New route, Waterloo to Pimlico via former 507 to Victoria then via 24 to Pimlico. 24/7 service. 507 Withdrawn. 521 Withdrawn ( I admit I haven’t given much thought to Stand Space..over to you all to pull apart , dissect, approve or Chuck out as garbage , enjoy !) 2 doesn't make sense to me. I would keep it as it is. 6 is fine as it is. I quite like the 9 that you proposed. 11 & 311 - I like it but the original 11 is fine as it is. Your 11 would work better with your 9 proposal. 12 - I don't like this because the 3 was already removed from Oxford Circus and removing another link to South London from Oxford Circus would be detrimental since tube services aren't great south of the Thames. 13 - I don't see the point of this one. 14 - Like the 13, it's fine as it is. Withdrawing it completely breaks links. 15 - Can't say much about this one, not really familiar with East London 16 & 32 - Don't agree because you're essentially merging two fairly long routes into a mega route which will cause reliablility issues 22 - Not sure whether you mean Putney-Notting Hill Gate or Oxford Circus-Notting Hill Gate. 23, 414, 430 - Would probably remove the Hammersmith - Hyde Park Corner section and instead reroute to Putney Bridge via 414. This would mean that the 414 is withdrawn. There is no need for the 414 to be extended to Roehampton since this will create a less reliable service on the current 430. 24, C2 - Don't really see the point of this. Breaks links to create new ones. 70 - Too circuitious, and there isn't stand space at Hammersmith. Also breaks the Ladbroke Grove-South Kensington link lost by the withdrawal of route 23. 74 - Fine as it is. The withdrawal of the 14 breaks links from parts of Fulham to places like Piccadilly Circus and I'm afraid the 74 isn't the right bus to reroute since it follows a different routing in Fulham 94, 453 - Withdrawn parts of these routes, along with the 12, means that there are only 2 routes (correct me if I'm wrong) along Regents Street. Marylebone would lose a considerable amount of buses to South London as a result. 113, 189 - It's a big no from me, the 113 provides a fast, direct route from Brent Cross to Oxford Street so why change it for a slower service? The 189 provides a slower route to Central London in areas that don't have many routes to Central London such as Cricklewood. Extending it to Edgware makes no sense since it will be less reliable. 190 - Not bad but reliability could suffer. 452 - Makes the route longer, so this isn't a good idea. 507, 521 - The purpose of these routes is to transport people from Rail Terminuses to central London, so removing these would be inconvenient for a lot of people. Overall your changes are breaking a lot of links, particularly Fulham/South Kensington to Piccadilly/Ladbroke Grove, and Marylebone to south London. The only ones I would consider going ahead with are the 190 and the 9
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 10:07:00 GMT
Not done many of these - This is my detailed 241 idea following my post about the 388 possibly being cut due to the savings needed.
Route 241 extended from Stratford City via existing route 388 to Ash Grove, this would create new links from the Custom House area to places such as Victoria Park and Well Street area. This would provide a quicker route towards Hackney from Stratford compared to route 276 which now goes via Bow Church. Not too sure what PVR the route would need?
Is there anywhere at Ash Grove for buses to turn apart from the garage?
You're not the first person to suggest merging the 241 and 388 and withdrawing Ash Grove to London Bridge. As a former user of the 388 I think that it should be retained and operate at least as far as Liverpool Street. It provides a direct link from the Victoria Park area to the City of London as well as to the tube at Bethnal Green. It also provides extra capacity along Bethnal Green Road which will be sorely needed if the 8 is included in the frequency reductions. Come on let me have the 241/388 idea - I had mentioned several times as far back as 2018 when the 241 was going to be extended to Here East It was added to a few other peoples post yesterday as suggestions
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 17, 2021 10:29:49 GMT
Could the 26 divert just before Hackney Wick and run over the 388 to Stratford City and withdraw the 388 and leave it to the 26, 30, 425 and maybe an extra journey or two on the 8.
That could free up the LB stand for the 47.
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Post by thesquirrels on Jan 17, 2021 10:42:55 GMT
2 Diverted to Baker Street 4 Diverted to London Bridge 6 Cut to Piccadilly Circus 9 Frequency increase extended to Liverpool Street Stn. 11 Withdrawn 12 Cut to Trafalgar Square 13 Diverted at Child’s Corner to run to Mill Hill via 113, terminate at Mill Hill Broadway. N13 would run to Victoria but via Oxford Street, Regent Street, Trafalgar Sq, Parliament Square. 14 Withdrawn 15 Extended to Oxford Circus. 16 Extended to Edgware 17 Peak frequency increase London Bridge to Holborn. 18 Diverted as per N18 to Trafalgar Square 22 Diverted at Chelsea to run via 345 to South Kensington Station then via 70 to Notting Hill Gate. 23 Withdrawn. 24 Withdrawn Victoria to Pimlico. 32 Withdrawn 70 Diverted at Kensington to run to Hammersmith Broadway. 74 Extended to Russell Sq via former 14 from Hyde Park Corner. 94 Withdrawn Oxford Circus to Piccadilly. 113 Edgware to Brent Cross via existing route then to Marble Arch via 189. 189 Withdrawn. 190 Extended to South Kensington via 430 311 New route Fulham Broadway to Oxford Circus via 11 to Sloane Sq then via 22 414 Extended to Roehampton Danebury Ave via former 430. Withdrawn north of Marble Arch. Night service introduced. 430 Withdrawn 452 Rerouted At Knightsbridge, to run via former 23 to Westbourne Park. 453 Withdrawn Trafalgar Square to Marylebone. 460 Frequency increase C2 New route, Waterloo to Pimlico via former 507 to Victoria then via 24 to Pimlico. 24/7 service. 507 Withdrawn. 521 Withdrawn ( I admit I haven’t given much thought to Stand Space..over to you all to pull apart , dissect, approve or Chuck out as garbage , enjoy !) Scalping the red arrow routes is an easy PVR win but I'm sceptical about thinning out service levels outside the congestion charge area. In some parts of London motor traffic was actually above average levels once the first lockdown was lifted, and commercial activity not too far behind, so merging suburban routes would result in services difficult to regulate and unappealing to use once normal life resumes. A 16 straight through to Edgware and your long-form 70 are examples of routes that would suffer badly from this. Also, breaking the link between Golders Green/Finchley and the A41 corridor down to Baker Street seems extreme - two high frequency routes made this link until the 82/13 merge.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 17, 2021 11:03:28 GMT
What I could see happen is the 139 diverted to Brent Cross with the 189 discontinued but not sure. The 332 could always be withdrawn with the 316 taking over the section between W & Brent Park with a DD conversion.
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Post by aaron1 on Jan 17, 2021 11:12:03 GMT
Cricklewood bus routes changes 16 extend to Neasden Shopping Centre via 232 on Dollis Hill Lane This help the 332 and 232 give people on Dollis Hill a new route
460 Withdrawn Between Willesden Bus Garage and Cricklewood Broadway then extend to Barnet Church via 263/N20 This links Barnet and Golders Green
New night route N245 Alperton Sainsburys to North Finchley This give Alperton Wembley Cricklewood and Golders Green
New DD Golders Green to Ealing Broadway is a DD of 226 But goes pass the low bridge at Twyford Abbey Road as via So the don't know if the route will go via Childs Hill or Pennine Drive then via 226 Park Royal Station then via 483 to Ealing Broadway I don't the number for this route is will be know as 226a This will help the 226 and the 483 when 112 was rerouted via Madely Road
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Post by greg on Jan 17, 2021 11:20:22 GMT
What I could see happen is the 139 diverted to Brent Cross with the 189 discontinued but not sure. The 332 could always be withdrawn with the 316 taking over the section between W & Brent Park with a DD conversion. As someone who goes to this area a lot and uses both routes, it is very clear that the 189 is busier. Abbey Road first of all has its wealthier residents and then those on council blocks, but the people of the wealthier I assure do not use TFL buses. And looking at people who use the buses they are looking for local high streets which is what the 189 does. Abbey Road to Marble Arch/Kilburn/Cricklewood/Brent Cross etc. My point is the 189 is much busier because it takes people to where they want to go. So I slightly agree but you extend the 189 to Oxford Circus and axe the 139 instead. You would still have to replace the Abbey Road - West Hampstead section though, and also Oxford Circus - Waterloo which could be done by extending the 94 or rerouting the 176 from Trafalgar Square to Oxford Circus.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 17, 2021 11:23:03 GMT
What I could see happen is the 139 diverted to Brent Cross with the 189 discontinued but not sure. The 332 could always be withdrawn with the 316 taking over the section between W & Brent Park with a DD conversion. As someone who goes to this area a lot and uses both routes, it is very clear that the 189 is busier. Abbey Road first of all has its wealthier residents and then those on council blocks, but the people of the wealthier I assure do not use TFL buses. And looking at people who use the buses they are looking for local high streets which is what the 189 does. Abbey Road to Marble Arch/Kilburn/Cricklewood/Brent Cross etc. My point is the 189 is much busier because it takes people to where they want to go. So I slightly agree but you extend the 189 to Oxford Circus and axe the 139 instead. You would still have to replace the Abbey Road - West Hampstead section though, and also Oxford Circus - Waterloo which could be done by extending the 94 or rerouting the 176 from Trafalgar Square to Oxford Circus. The 328 would run over the section between Abbey Road & Golders Green. The 139 gets busy as does with the 189 and if the services in Central London get liquidised the 139 will need a frequency increase anyway so I just say divert the 139 to Brent Cross with an increased frequency
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 17, 2021 11:23:44 GMT
Cricklewood bus routes changes 16 extend to Neasden Shopping Centre via 232 on Dollis Hill Lane This help the 332 and 232 give people on Dollis Hill a new route 460 Withdrawn Between Willesden Bus Garage and Cricklewood Broadway then extend to Barnet Church via 263/N20 This links Barnet and Golders Green New night route N245 Alperton Sainsburys to North Finchley This give Alperton Wembley Cricklewood and Golders Green New DD Golders Green to Ealing Broadway is a DD of 226 But goes pass the low bridge at Twyford Abbey Road as via So the don't know if the route will go via Childs Hill or Pennine Drive then via 226 Park Royal Station then via 483 to Ealing Broadway I don't the number for this route is will be know as 226a This will help the 226 and the 483 when 112 was rerouted via Madely Road I'd keep the 16 as is, increase the frequency, withdraw the 332 and extend the 316 to Brent Park. If I was to change the 460 it would be to extend it eastwards but then I think it should still support the 13 & 260
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Post by greg on Jan 17, 2021 11:38:11 GMT
139 - withdrawn 189 - frequency increase and extended to Oxford Circus 113 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Oxford Circus 13 - frequency decrease 94 - extended to Waterloo via 139
restructured route 139 and 274: Running between Golders Green and Camden Town:
Running between Golders Green and Abbey Road via route 139, via route 31 to Swiss Cottage, Avenue Road to London Zoo, and route 274 to Camden Town. Running as alternative service to Camden from Swiss Cottage and a quicker route to avoid packed buses on the 31/46, and leaves Abbey Road with 1 bus service which is adequate to be honest (189 will get frequency increase), and provides Avenue Road with a bus service.
Only downside is Eamont Street will no longer have a bus, it just means residents will have to walk to the next stop to catch the restructured 139/274 or walk to Lords to catch the 13 or 113.
At the Camden end to stand at Camden Gardens to still serve Sainsburys but from Car Park Entrance instead.
Route 476 to be rerouted from Upper Street via route 274 to Camden Town Station to replace that link and then extend to Mornington Crescent to give Pratt Street a link to Angel.
13: same but frequency decrease 113: Marble Arch to Edgware 139: Golders Green to Camden Town 94: Waterloo to Acton Green 189: Oxford Circus to Brent Cross 476: Northumberland Park to Mornington Crescent
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Post by ADH45258 on Jan 17, 2021 12:03:03 GMT
Cricklewood bus routes changes 16 extend to Neasden Shopping Centre via 232 on Dollis Hill Lane This help the 332 and 232 give people on Dollis Hill a new route 460 Withdrawn Between Willesden Bus Garage and Cricklewood Broadway then extend to Barnet Church via 263/N20 This links Barnet and Golders Green New night route N245 Alperton Sainsburys to North Finchley This give Alperton Wembley Cricklewood and Golders Green New DD Golders Green to Ealing Broadway is a DD of 226 But goes pass the low bridge at Twyford Abbey Road as via So the don't know if the route will go via Childs Hill or Pennine Drive then via 226 Park Royal Station then via 483 to Ealing Broadway I don't the number for this route is will be know as 226a This will help the 226 and the 483 when 112 was rerouted via Madely Road I'd keep the 16 as is, increase the frequency, withdraw the 332 and extend the 316 to Brent Park. If I was to change the 460 it would be to extend it eastwards but then I think it should still support the 13 & 260 I like the idea of having the 460 between Cricklewood and Barnet, however the extra capacity probably isn't needed between North Finchley and Barnet. One option could be to cut the 263 back to North Finchley - this would break some links towards East Finchley, but introduce some new ones towards Golders Green - the lengthly 263 also parallels the Northern line to some extent, the 234 also links to East Finchley and Highgate, and there's the hopper fare. Or another alternative could be to keep the 263/460 unchanged, and cut the 260 back to Cricklewood/Willesden?
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Post by ADH45258 on Jan 17, 2021 12:04:38 GMT
What I could see happen is the 139 diverted to Brent Cross with the 189 discontinued but not sure. The 332 could always be withdrawn with the 316 taking over the section between W & Brent Park with a DD conversion. As someone who goes to this area a lot and uses both routes, it is very clear that the 189 is busier. Abbey Road first of all has its wealthier residents and then those on council blocks, but the people of the wealthier I assure do not use TFL buses. And looking at people who use the buses they are looking for local high streets which is what the 189 does. Abbey Road to Marble Arch/Kilburn/Cricklewood/Brent Cross etc. My point is the 189 is much busier because it takes people to where they want to go. So I slightly agree but you extend the 189 to Oxford Circus and axe the 139 instead. You would still have to replace the Abbey Road - West Hampstead section though, and also Oxford Circus - Waterloo which could be done by extending the 94 or rerouting the 176 from Trafalgar Square to Oxford Circus. I would instead suggest to keep the 139/328 unchanged, but still withdraw the 189, by extending the 16 to Brent Cross - the 332 could perhaps divert via Abbey Road.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jan 17, 2021 12:21:33 GMT
Suggestions to reduce some services around Greenwich and Bermondsey:
1/188 - Routes merged, operating from Aldwych or Waterloo, via route 1 to Surrey Quays, then the 188 to North Greenwich.
129 - Extended from Cutty Sark to Bellingham via route 199.
178/291 - Routes merged (using the 291 routeing between Woolwich and Queen Elizabeth Hospital). Frees up some stand space in Woolwich, and slightly reduces the corridor to the south of Woolwich. Fixed stand introduced at Plumstead Common (at Dothill Road).
180 - Revised as planned to operate between North Greenwich and Erith.
199 - Withdrawn between Bellingham and Cutty Sark, instead extended to Woolwich via the 177/180. Possible frequency reduction to every 15 minutes. Reduces service over the Greenwich-Woolwich corridor, while still providing assistance to the 177.
Other changes for South East London:
61 - Withdrawn between Chislehurst and Orpington, instead extended to Ramsden Estate via the R9 (with the R9 withdrawn).
126 - Extended from Eltham High Street (no longer serving Southend Crescent) to Woolwich via route 161. Converted to DDs. Provides a new link between Woolwich and Bromley.
161 - Withdrawn between North Greenwich and Eltham, and rerouted to terminate at Southend Crescent (126 stand). Extended from Chislehurst to Orpington Station via route 61.
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