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Post by vjaska on Sept 28, 2023 16:04:38 GMT
There are too many buses linking Staines and Hounslow? It's literally just the 117 and 203 both of which don't have high PVRs so what's your point? Might be a better use of resources to send the 203 elsewhere and extend the 116 there So what happens to anyone between the points the 116 & 203 don't meet each other who rely on a connection to Hounslow bearing in mind both routes have quite different routings between Ashford Hospital & Hounslow?
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Post by rift on Sept 28, 2023 22:58:49 GMT
There are only two routes from Hounslow to Staines (117 & 203) and from my fleeting observations, both are very busy too so I’m puzzled by how there is too many? Also, someone far more local than me mentioned Busch Corner coming from Twickenham regularly snarls up so diverting the 117 & 235 via St John’s Road would, I imagine, add more time on than necessary Once the Heathrow Southern Link is built it will be far quicker to reach Staines from Southall using the Elizabeth Line. Especially if the Elizabeth Line extension is continuing to go ahead.
northlondon83 I could be wrong on this but I highly doubt there are many people who use the 482 to get from Heathrow T5 to Southall. There might be people living in communities along the 482 who require Heathrow as a place of employment, but generally there would be very little through traffic and I imagine the Southall link on the 482 is more for residents wanting to access local amenities and the Elizabeth Line. Far quicker to get from Southall to Terminal 5 using the Elizabeth Line. The Heathrow Southern Link hasn’t been approved or brought before the government, it could be years before any scheme is close to completion if one is ever approved. Being a regular visitor to Southall due to family, I disagree with your 482 comment. The route gets pretty well loadings of workers going straight to Heathrow, and just because the railway may be faster, it doesn’t necessarily mean workers will want to justify the £13.80/£15.80 round trip from Southall to T5. The 18 and 205 are two very good examples of routes paralleling railways yet still getting heavy loadings.
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Post by northlondon83 on Sept 29, 2023 0:40:49 GMT
Might be a better use of resources to send the 203 elsewhere and extend the 116 there So what happens to anyone between the points the 116 & 203 don't meet each other who rely on a connection to Hounslow bearing in mind both routes have quite different routings between Ashford Hospital & Hounslow? There is unfortunately only one option which is the hopper fare. However tfl have used this on multiple occasions when cutting routes
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Post by northlondon83 on Oct 1, 2023 18:25:16 GMT
7... Extended from Oxford Circus to Parliament Hill Fields 15... Extended from Trafalgar Square to Oxford Circus 88... Withdrawn between Oxford Circus and Parliament Hill Fields, replaced by the 7, and rerouted via the 94 to Shepherds Bush Green and the 148 to White City. Possibly converted back to LT. 94... Withdrawn, replaced by changes to the 88 and 148. 148... Rerouted from Shepherd's Bush Green to Acton Green, using BCE's from the 94. * The 7 is a good fit for the Parliament Hill Fields section, frequency and bus type, ie not LT. *The 15 uses the 'paths' vacated by the 94 along Regent Street. *The 88 restores a South London service along Oxford Street and future proofs the Regent Street/Bayswater Road link with the 94 possibly being vulnerable. Not sure why the 7 needs to go to Parliament Hill Fields. Is there any demand from there/Kentish Town to Ladbroke Grove and East Acton. If anything these journeys can be done on the tube. With the 88 I don't see the need either. Wonder if reversing the 159 or 137 change would be good though. There is nothing wrong with the 94. The 148 would be too long and there isn't a need to extend and merge with the 94. The only thing I'd say is extending a route from the Oxford Circus area back into the city, like what the 23 was, or possibly a 94 extension eastwards. There is also the case of extending the 98 or 23 to London Bridge and the 8 to Waterloo or rerouting the 341 in replacement of the 521 (which I think are better than what currently exists)
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Post by greenboy on Oct 1, 2023 18:38:30 GMT
7... Extended from Oxford Circus to Parliament Hill Fields 15... Extended from Trafalgar Square to Oxford Circus 88... Withdrawn between Oxford Circus and Parliament Hill Fields, replaced by the 7, and rerouted via the 94 to Shepherds Bush Green and the 148 to White City. Possibly converted back to LT. 94... Withdrawn, replaced by changes to the 88 and 148. 148... Rerouted from Shepherd's Bush Green to Acton Green, using BCE's from the 94. * The 7 is a good fit for the Parliament Hill Fields section, frequency and bus type, ie not LT. *The 15 uses the 'paths' vacated by the 94 along Regent Street. *The 88 restores a South London service along Oxford Street and future proofs the Regent Street/Bayswater Road link with the 94 possibly being vulnerable. Not sure why the 7 needs to go to Parliament Hill Fields. Is there any demand from there/Kentish Town to Ladbroke Grove and East Acton. If anything these journeys can be done on the tube. With the 88 I don't see the need either. Wonder if reversing the 159 or 137 change would be good though. There is nothing wrong with the 94. The 148 would be too long and there isn't a need to extend and merge with the 94. The only thing I'd say is extending a route from the Oxford Circus area back into the city, like what the 23 was, or possibly a 94 extension eastwards. There is also the case of extending the 98 or 23 to London Bridge and the 8 to Waterloo or rerouting the 341 in replacement of the 521 (which I think are better than what currently exists) The 7 doesn't particularly need to go to PHF but it's as good a way as serving it as any unless the C2 is returned between PHF and Oxford Circus? As I explained the 88 would restore at least one South London route along the full length of Oxford Street and the 94 and 148 change are linked to that with the 15 replacing the 94 along Regent Street thus restoring a service from Oxford Circus to The City.
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Post by londonbuses on Oct 1, 2023 18:49:15 GMT
The only thing I'd say is extending a route from the Oxford Circus area back into the city, like what the 23 was, or possibly a 94 extension eastwards. There is also the case of extending the 98 or 23 to London Bridge and the 8 to Waterloo or rerouting the 341 in replacement of the 521 (which I think are better than what currently exists) I have previously suggested something like this on here a few months ago: 98 London Bridge to Willesden Bus Garage (8bph DD) Extended from Holborn to London Bridge via route 133 (originally 521). 133 Liverpool Street to Streatham (8bph DD) Withdrawn between London Bridge and Holborn and reextended to Liverpool Street.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 1, 2023 18:59:53 GMT
The only thing I'd say is extending a route from the Oxford Circus area back into the city, like what the 23 was, or possibly a 94 extension eastwards. There is also the case of extending the 98 or 23 to London Bridge and the 8 to Waterloo or rerouting the 341 in replacement of the 521 (which I think are better than what currently exists) I have previously suggested something like this on here a few months ago: 98 London Bridge to Willesden Bus Garage (8bph DD) Extended from Holborn to London Bridge via route 133 (originally 521). 133 Liverpool Street to Streatham (8bph DD) Withdrawn between London Bridge and Holborn and reextended to Liverpool Street. I don't think the 133 will last, the 521s crowd hasn't all transferred to the 133 and I wonder if they could eventually cull the 133 back to London Bridge without any replacement. The 8 and 25 run from Bank towards Holborn, the 15 runs down Cannon Street from Monument Station. I think the massive appeal for the 521 was the Southern Commuters getting off the train and walking right onto the Bus Station forecourt to get onto a waiting 521 that would leave in the next few seconds. That appeal has vanished now with the walk needing to be to London Bridge for a much longer wait, you're better off just going Underground for the tube.
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Post by WH241 on Oct 1, 2023 19:08:00 GMT
7... Extended from Oxford Circus to Parliament Hill Fields 15... Extended from Trafalgar Square to Oxford Circus 88... Withdrawn between Oxford Circus and Parliament Hill Fields, replaced by the 7, and rerouted via the 94 to Shepherds Bush Green and the 148 to White City. Possibly converted back to LT. 94... Withdrawn, replaced by changes to the 88 and 148. 148... Rerouted from Shepherd's Bush Green to Acton Green, using BCE's from the 94. * The 7 is a good fit for the Parliament Hill Fields section, frequency and bus type, ie not LT. *The 15 uses the 'paths' vacated by the 94 along Regent Street. *The 88 restores a South London service along Oxford Street and future proofs the Regent Street/Bayswater Road link with the 94 possibly being vulnerable. Not sure why the 7 needs to go to Parliament Hill Fields. Is there any demand from there/Kentish Town to Ladbroke Grove and East Acton. If anything these journeys can be done on the tube. With the 88 I don't see the need either. Wonder if reversing the 159 or 137 change would be good though. There is nothing wrong with the 94. The 148 would be too long and there isn't a need to extend and merge with the 94. The only thing I'd say is extending a route from the Oxford Circus area back into the city, like what the 23 was, or possibly a 94 extension eastwards. There is also the case of extending the 98 or 23 to London Bridge and the 8 to Waterloo or rerouting the 341 in replacement of the 521 (which I think are better than what currently exists) What is wrong with what exists now apart from people disagreeing with what TfL decided? The 8 is already a bit around the houses on the eastern end before it heads into central London, I don't think extending a route like that across the water is a good idea.
I often wonder if for arguments sake TfL had decided for the 8 to go to Waterloo would there be suggestions here to have extended the 59 and 133 as they are now as people think it would be better than what exists. .
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Post by northlondon83 on Oct 1, 2023 19:18:53 GMT
I have previously suggested something like this on here a few months ago: 98 London Bridge to Willesden Bus Garage (8bph DD) Extended from Holborn to London Bridge via route 133 (originally 521). 133 Liverpool Street to Streatham (8bph DD) Withdrawn between London Bridge and Holborn and reextended to Liverpool Street. I don't think the 133 will last, the 521s crowd hasn't all transferred to the 133 and I wonder if they could eventually cull the 133 back to London Bridge without any replacement. The 8 and 25 run from Bank towards Holborn, the 15 runs down Cannon Street from Monument Station. I think the massive appeal for the 521 was the Southern Commuters getting off the train and walking right onto the Bus Station forecourt to get onto a waiting 521 that would leave in the next few seconds. That appeal has vanished now with the walk needing to be to London Bridge for a much longer wait, you're better off just going Underground for the tube. that is why it's better to start each route at the former 521 termini as opposed to in the middle
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 1, 2023 19:35:39 GMT
I don't think the 133 will last, the 521s crowd hasn't all transferred to the 133 and I wonder if they could eventually cull the 133 back to London Bridge without any replacement. The 8 and 25 run from Bank towards Holborn, the 15 runs down Cannon Street from Monument Station. I think the massive appeal for the 521 was the Southern Commuters getting off the train and walking right onto the Bus Station forecourt to get onto a waiting 521 that would leave in the next few seconds. That appeal has vanished now with the walk needing to be to London Bridge for a much longer wait, you're better off just going Underground for the tube. that is why it's better to start each route at the former 521 termini as opposed to in the middle I think some would have swapped to the 17 which takes part of the way to Chancery Lane but I agree the walk out to LB probably leaves many having a glance back, not seeing a 133 and think iv already started walking so I may aswell continue.
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Post by busman on Oct 1, 2023 20:48:09 GMT
that is why it's better to start each route at the former 521 termini as opposed to in the middle I think some would have swapped to the 17 which takes part of the way to Chancery Lane but I agree the walk out to LB probably leaves many having a glance back, not seeing a 133 and think iv already started walking so I may aswell continue. The beauty of the 521 was that buses were empty on arrival at London Bridge (and Waterloo) and the frequency was really high so there was almost always a bus at the first stop during the day times. I guess TfL will have the data to see where the 521’s passengers have ended up but I think they will have spread across multiple routes and even tube and rail.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 1, 2023 21:54:03 GMT
I have previously suggested something like this on here a few months ago: 98 London Bridge to Willesden Bus Garage (8bph DD) Extended from Holborn to London Bridge via route 133 (originally 521). 133 Liverpool Street to Streatham (8bph DD) Withdrawn between London Bridge and Holborn and reextended to Liverpool Street. I don't think the 133 will last, the 521s crowd hasn't all transferred to the 133 and I wonder if they could eventually cull the 133 back to London Bridge without any replacement. The 8 and 25 run from Bank towards Holborn, the 15 runs down Cannon Street from Monument Station. I think the massive appeal for the 521 was the Southern Commuters getting off the train and walking right onto the Bus Station forecourt to get onto a waiting 521 that would leave in the next few seconds. That appeal has vanished now with the walk needing to be to London Bridge for a much longer wait, you're better off just going Underground for the tube. I'm not shocked that the 133's new section hasn't worked at all, it really needs to return to Liverpool Street but we all that won't happen as you eluded to.
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 2, 2023 6:46:59 GMT
Not sure why the 7 needs to go to Parliament Hill Fields. Is there any demand from there/Kentish Town to Ladbroke Grove and East Acton. If anything these journeys can be done on the tube. With the 88 I don't see the need either. Wonder if reversing the 159 or 137 change would be good though. There is nothing wrong with the 94. The 148 would be too long and there isn't a need to extend and merge with the 94. The only thing I'd say is extending a route from the Oxford Circus area back into the city, like what the 23 was, or possibly a 94 extension eastwards. There is also the case of extending the 98 or 23 to London Bridge and the 8 to Waterloo or rerouting the 341 in replacement of the 521 (which I think are better than what currently exists) What is wrong with what exists now apart from people disagreeing with what TfL decided? The 8 is already a bit around the houses on the eastern end before it heads into central London, I don't think extending a route like that across the water is a good idea. I often wonder if for arguments sake TfL had decided for the 8 to go to Waterloo would there be suggestions here to have extended the 59 and 133 as they are now as people think it would be better than what exists. .
I think I’d have sent the 8 to Waterloo : it would have had the advantage of empty buses at Waterloo covering a good bulk of the 521. I’d also have had the 98 extend to Smithfield which slightly alleviates the loss of the 8 at Tottenham Court Road. The 59 and 133 I’d have left alone, and I think the 17 would have been sufficient at London Bridge for points west. But what is done, is done. I’m sure TfL did the research far better than I!
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Post by northlondon83 on Oct 2, 2023 9:45:12 GMT
Not sure why the 7 needs to go to Parliament Hill Fields. Is there any demand from there/Kentish Town to Ladbroke Grove and East Acton. If anything these journeys can be done on the tube. With the 88 I don't see the need either. Wonder if reversing the 159 or 137 change would be good though. There is nothing wrong with the 94. The 148 would be too long and there isn't a need to extend and merge with the 94. The only thing I'd say is extending a route from the Oxford Circus area back into the city, like what the 23 was, or possibly a 94 extension eastwards. There is also the case of extending the 98 or 23 to London Bridge and the 8 to Waterloo or rerouting the 341 in replacement of the 521 (which I think are better than what currently exists) The 7 doesn't particularly need to go to PHF but it's as good a way as serving it as any unless the C2 is returned between PHF and Oxford Circus? As I explained the 88 would restore at least one South London route along the full length of Oxford Street and the 94 and 148 change are linked to that with the 15 replacing the 94 along Regent Street thus restoring a service from Oxford Circus to The City. I'd only have the 88 run as far as Marble Arch, otherwise it would be very long. The 94 and 148 wouldn't need to change. To make stand space and PVR savings I would bin the 414.
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Post by greenboy on Oct 2, 2023 9:47:04 GMT
The 7 doesn't particularly need to go to PHF but it's as good a way as serving it as any unless the C2 is returned between PHF and Oxford Circus? As I explained the 88 would restore at least one South London route along the full length of Oxford Street and the 94 and 148 change are linked to that with the 15 replacing the 94 along Regent Street thus restoring a service from Oxford Circus to The City. I'd only have the 88 run as far as Marble Arch, otherwise it would be very long. The 94 and 148 wouldn't need to change. To make stand space and PVR savings I would bin the 414. That would add another bus route to Oxford Street, the 88 would be roughly the same length as it is now.
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