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Post by B9TL205 on Jan 15, 2024 21:15:50 GMT
With respect this is getting a bit silly now. Why would such a route even be needed? Please don't say to give Parliament Hill a link to Canary Wharf as there is not one.
I only asked if it can happen. I didn’t say it should happen. I only thought about that because 214 is mostly packed between Kentish Town and Kings Cross and I’m aware it can’t be DD’s because of the turn at Highgate West Hill to Holly Terrace. It's already indirect around the Isle of Dogs and the whole purpose of the 135 is to provide links there whilst supporting the 15 and 115 along the Commercial Road corridor. I don't think it'd work out well making the route lengthy towards North London |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 15, 2024 22:24:45 GMT
Can the 135 and 214 buses be merged from Crossharbour to Parliament Hill Fields? No, far too long - the 135 on it's own can take a while at certain times. Merging routes together should only be done as a last resort and only when the two routes being merged have identical purposes |
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Post by bk10mfe on Jan 15, 2024 22:50:53 GMT
Can the 135 and 214 buses be merged from Crossharbour to Parliament Hill Fields? No, far too long - the 135 on it's own can take a while at certain times. Merging routes together should only be done as a last resort and only when the two routes being merged have identical purposes I thought the 205 being merged onto the 214 was quite absurd, definitely one of the worst proposals of that bus consultation, as was the 135 merged onto the 242. The 135 & 214 are mostly ok as they are, if I were to change anything I would curtail the 135 to Liverpool St or Shoreditch since I don’t think the Liverpool St-Old St section of the route is well used. |
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Post by londonbuses184 on Jan 15, 2024 23:59:51 GMT
I'd love to hear more of your opinions on this route I've created. I think Harringay Station and Wightman Road locals in general could really use a link to Wood Green and would also provide an additional Edmonton to Wood Green link to help when the 144 is crowded at times plus to provide a route serving the whole length of Liverpool Road between Holloway and Angel Islington. Give me your thoughts. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Jan 16, 2024 0:26:17 GMT
No, far too long - the 135 on it's own can take a while at certain times. Merging routes together should only be done as a last resort and only when the two routes being merged have identical purposes I thought the 205 being merged onto the 214 was quite absurd, definitely one of the worst proposals of that bus consultation, as was the 135 merged onto the 242. The 135 & 214 are mostly ok as they are, if I were to change anything I would curtail the 135 to Liverpool St or Shoreditch since I don’t think the Liverpool St-Old St section of the route is well used. I think the 31/113 was by far the worst of those proposals. But regarding the 135, perhaps a rationalisation of the Commercial Road corridor could be looked at. Particularly as the 15 has been significantly reduced, but the Central section can get quite busy with tourists. I would basically suggest a merger of the 15 and 135, to operate between Crossharbour and Trafalgar Square, though could take the more direct route after Canary Wharf, swapping with the D8. And increased back to about every 8 minutes. The 115 would then extend to Liverpool Street, Shoreditch or Old Street (maybe increased in frequency slightly too if needed). And ideally convert the D6 to DDs, covering the 15's local link to Blackwall. Or alternatively could look at diverting one route via The Highway instead of Commercial Road, roughly providing a day equivalent to the N551? It has been mentioned that The Highway can get quite congested, but this could offer some useful links to/from the Shadwell area. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Jan 16, 2024 7:46:13 GMT
I thought the 205 being merged onto the 214 was quite absurd, definitely one of the worst proposals of that bus consultation, as was the 135 merged onto the 242. The 135 & 214 are mostly ok as they are, if I were to change anything I would curtail the 135 to Liverpool St or Shoreditch since I don’t think the Liverpool St-Old St section of the route is well used. I think the 31/113 was by far the worst of those proposals. But regarding the 135, perhaps a rationalisation of the Commercial Road corridor could be looked at. Particularly as the 15 has been significantly reduced, but the Central section can get quite busy with tourists. I would basically suggest a merger of the 15 and 135, to operate between Crossharbour and Trafalgar Square, though could take the more direct route after Canary Wharf, swapping with the D8. And increased back to about every 8 minutes. The 115 would then extend to Liverpool Street, Shoreditch or Old Street (maybe increased in frequency slightly too if needed). And ideally convert the D6 to DDs, covering the 15's local link to Blackwall. Or alternatively could look at diverting one route via The Highway instead of Commercial Road, roughly providing a day equivalent to the N551? It has been mentioned that The Highway can get quite congested, but this could offer some useful links to/from the Shadwell area. Another option you could do would be to extend the 15 from Blackwall to Crossharbour via the D6 & extend the D7 from Mile End to Ash Grove, which would allow the D6 to be withdrawn. I also think the 277 could receive a small extension to Newington Green via A104 & Balls Pond Road. It can use the old 21 stand which has been vacant since the 21 was rerouted to Holloway. |
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Post by sim02 on Jan 16, 2024 10:30:23 GMT
I thought the 205 being merged onto the 214 was quite absurd, definitely one of the worst proposals of that bus consultation, as was the 135 merged onto the 242. The 135 & 214 are mostly ok as they are, if I were to change anything I would curtail the 135 to Liverpool St or Shoreditch since I don’t think the Liverpool St-Old St section of the route is well used. I think the 31/113 was by far the worst of those proposals. But regarding the 135, perhaps a rationalisation of the Commercial Road corridor could be looked at. Particularly as the 15 has been significantly reduced, but the Central section can get quite busy with tourists. I would basically suggest a merger of the 15 and 135, to operate between Crossharbour and Trafalgar Square, though could take the more direct route after Canary Wharf, swapping with the D8. And increased back to about every 8 minutes. The 115 would then extend to Liverpool Street, Shoreditch or Old Street (maybe increased in frequency slightly too if needed). And ideally convert the D6 to DDs, covering the 15's local link to Blackwall. Or alternatively could look at diverting one route via The Highway instead of Commercial Road, roughly providing a day equivalent to the N551? It has been mentioned that The Highway can get quite congested, but this could offer some useful links to/from the Shadwell area. I agree with you about the 31/113 proposal being the worst proposal. I hated that idea. C11 and 113 already serve Brent Cross from Swiss Cottage so there’s no reason for 189 to be rerouted to Camden Town especially when you can take the Northern Line to Brent Cross from Camden Town and Chalk Farm. I also don’t think 13 can be able to cope alone between Finchley Road and Baker Street. Moreover, I just think 113/N113 should just be a 24 hour route between Edgware and Trafalgar Square in order to retain the link from Finchley Road, Swiss Cottage and St John’s Wood to Oxford Circus especially, as well as Piccadilly Circus and Trafalgar Square instead of getting off at Baker Street for the 139. |
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Post by gwiwer on Jan 16, 2024 11:58:29 GMT
The 15 serves several very distinct and different markets. It is a tourist and commuter route between Trafalgar Square and the Tower then becomes a busy local route through the east end. I have always thought the Blackwall station terminus was faintly absurd when Canning Town is not much farther and is a major interchange these days. Blackwall gets a little use with transfers onto and off the DLR but otherwise the last few stops are very little-used.
If I had to change anything therefore the 15 would be extended at both ends, stand space permitting, to run Oxford Circus to Canning Town at not less than 10bph. The 115 would run from East Ham to Poplar then via Prestons Road, Manchester Road and East Ferry Road to ASDA covering the 135 over this section.
The D7 would divert via Spindrift Avenue covering the 135 there but with the direct link to ASDA broken from a couple of stops; those are within reasonably easy walking distance of West Ferry Road where the 277 offers an alternative link.
The 135 at 10bph would then become Blackwall station to Kings Cross projected from its existing Old Street terminus to link into a much busier interchange. This maintains service levels along Commercial Road after losing the 115.
There is housing along The Highway which could be usefully served by a local bus that way but IIRC there is a restriction preventing such an operation. The 100 covers some of the ground one way only and the N551 runs along there at night but not stopping over the critical section. I may be wrong on that but when the X15 was operating and there wee requests for it to stop and serve the flats they were told stopping buses along The Highway, which does get badly congested at times, was not permitted on safety grounds .
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Post by sim02 on Jan 16, 2024 13:47:26 GMT
I'd love to hear more of your opinions on this route I've created. I think Harringay Station and Wightman Road locals in general could really use a link to Wood Green and would also provide an additional Edmonton to Wood Green link to help when the 144 is crowded at times plus to provide a route serving the whole length of Liverpool Road between Holloway and Angel Islington. Give me your thoughts. Really good idea! but better with another number. But can a double decker fit through Wightman Road? |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jan 16, 2024 19:21:46 GMT
The 15 serves several very distinct and different markets. It is a tourist and commuter route between Trafalgar Square and the Tower then becomes a busy local route through the east end. I have always thought the Blackwall station terminus was faintly absurd when Canning Town is not much farther and is a major interchange these days. Blackwall gets a little use with transfers onto and off the DLR but otherwise the last few stops are very little-used. If I had to change anything therefore the 15 would be extended at both ends, stand space permitting, to run Oxford Circus to Canning Town at not less than 10bph. The 115 would run from East Ham to Poplar then via Prestons Road, Manchester Road and East Ferry Road to ASDA covering the 135 over this section. The D7 would divert via Spindrift Avenue covering the 135 there but with the direct link to ASDA broken from a couple of stops; those are within reasonably easy walking distance of West Ferry Road where the 277 offers an alternative link. The 135 at 10bph would then become Blackwall station to Kings Cross projected from its existing Old Street terminus to link into a much busier interchange. This maintains service levels along Commercial Road after losing the 115. There is housing along The Highway which could be usefully served by a local bus that way but IIRC there is a restriction preventing such an operation. The 100 covers some of the ground one way only and the N551 runs along there at night but not stopping over the critical section. I may be wrong on that but when the X15 was operating and there wee requests for it to stop and serve the flats they were told stopping buses along The Highway, which does get badly congested at times, was not permitted on safety grounds . What are the safety issues with the Highway? |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 16, 2024 20:39:07 GMT
I'd love to hear more of your opinions on this route I've created. I think Harringay Station and Wightman Road locals in general could really use a link to Wood Green and would also provide an additional Edmonton to Wood Green link to help when the 144 is crowded at times plus to provide a route serving the whole length of Liverpool Road between Holloway and Angel Islington. Give me your thoughts. Really good idea! but better with another number. But can a double decker fit through Wightman Road? I don’t see the issue with the number, as for Wightman Road & that corridor, the only problem I see is potentially the bridge on Alroy Road which seems to have a weight restriction |
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Post by bk10mfe on Jan 16, 2024 22:06:03 GMT
I think the 31/113 was by far the worst of those proposals. But regarding the 135, perhaps a rationalisation of the Commercial Road corridor could be looked at. Particularly as the 15 has been significantly reduced, but the Central section can get quite busy with tourists. I would basically suggest a merger of the 15 and 135, to operate between Crossharbour and Trafalgar Square, though could take the more direct route after Canary Wharf, swapping with the D8. And increased back to about every 8 minutes. The 115 would then extend to Liverpool Street, Shoreditch or Old Street (maybe increased in frequency slightly too if needed). And ideally convert the D6 to DDs, covering the 15's local link to Blackwall. Or alternatively could look at diverting one route via The Highway instead of Commercial Road, roughly providing a day equivalent to the N551? It has been mentioned that The Highway can get quite congested, but this could offer some useful links to/from the Shadwell area. I agree with you about the 31/113 proposal being the worst proposal. I hated that idea. C11 and 113 already serve Brent Cross from Swiss Cottage so there’s no reason for 189 to be rerouted to Camden Town especially when you can take the Northern Line to Brent Cross from Camden Town and Chalk Farm. I also don’t think 13 can be able to cope alone between Finchley Road and Baker Street. Moreover, I just think 113/N113 should just be a 24 hour route between Edgware and Trafalgar Square in order to retain the link from Finchley Road, Swiss Cottage and St John’s Wood to Oxford Circus especially, as well as Piccadilly Circus and Trafalgar Square instead of getting off at Baker Street for the 139. I do think the 113 might become too unreliable if the daytime service ran to Trafalgar Square, given how bad traffic on Regent St can be. I think the 113 running to Oxford Circus is a fair compromise though it would allow it to make the unused stand space there useful, & free stand space in Marble Arch. Of the route mergers proposed in that consultation the 31/113 is definitely the worst, but the 12/148, 78/388, 27/C3 & 205/214 as mentioned above are also very bad. |
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Post by sim02 on Jan 16, 2024 22:47:26 GMT
I agree with you about the 31/113 proposal being the worst proposal. I hated that idea. C11 and 113 already serve Brent Cross from Swiss Cottage so there’s no reason for 189 to be rerouted to Camden Town especially when you can take the Northern Line to Brent Cross from Camden Town and Chalk Farm. I also don’t think 13 can be able to cope alone between Finchley Road and Baker Street. Moreover, I just think 113/N113 should just be a 24 hour route between Edgware and Trafalgar Square in order to retain the link from Finchley Road, Swiss Cottage and St John’s Wood to Oxford Circus especially, as well as Piccadilly Circus and Trafalgar Square instead of getting off at Baker Street for the 139. I do think the 113 might become too unreliable if the daytime service ran to Trafalgar Square, given how bad traffic on Regent St can be. I think the 113 running to Oxford Circus is a fair compromise though it would allow it to make the unused stand space there useful, & free stand space in Marble Arch. Of the route mergers proposed in that consultation the 31/113 is definitely the worst, but the 12/148, 78/388, 27/C3 & 205/214 as mentioned above are also very bad. I’m not gonna lie, until today I couldn’t understand why everybody was against the 12/148 proposal. I knew their plan was to make 148 go from Dulwich Library to Shepherds Bush Green, but number 12 would have been a better number for it instead of number 148 but why were a lot of people against the proposal when 148 was slightly a longer version of 12? I mean if needing to go to Oxford Circus, you can change for the 453 at Elephant & Castle, Lambeth North or St Thomas’s Hospital. |
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Post by sim02 on Jan 16, 2024 22:59:33 GMT
Really good idea! but better with another number. But can a double decker fit through Wightman Road? I don’t see the issue with the number, as for Wightman Road & that corridor, the only problem I see is potentially the bridge on Alroy Road which seems to have a weight restriction Ok. TFL need to publish this route quickly to be honest. I actually like this idea/proposed route. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 16, 2024 23:40:22 GMT
I don’t see the issue with the number, as for Wightman Road & that corridor, the only problem I see is potentially the bridge on Alroy Road which seems to have a weight restriction Ok. TFL need to publish this route quickly to be honest. I actually like this idea/proposed route. I know in the past buses went along there, but with many pinch point restrictions with council works a few years ago at present I would not recommend anything more than 8.8m long. |
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