|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Jan 17, 2024 7:48:48 GMT
I do think the 113 might become too unreliable if the daytime service ran to Trafalgar Square, given how bad traffic on Regent St can be. I think the 113 running to Oxford Circus is a fair compromise though it would allow it to make the unused stand space there useful, & free stand space in Marble Arch. Of the route mergers proposed in that consultation the 31/113 is definitely the worst, but the 12/148, 78/388, 27/C3 & 205/214 as mentioned above are also very bad. I’m not gonna lie, until today I couldn’t understand why everybody was against the 12/148 proposal. I knew their plan was to make 148 go from Dulwich Library to Shepherds Bush Green, but number 12 would have been a better number for it instead of number 148 but why were a lot of people against the proposal when 148 was slightly a longer version of 12? I mean if needing to go to Oxford Circus, you can change for the 453 at Elephant & Castle, Lambeth North or St Thomas’s Hospital. Simply rerouting the 40 over the 12’s current route between Camberwell & Dulwich would have been much better, instead of extending the already very unreliable 148. I think the 176/185 can cope on their own between Camberwell/Dulwich, + they have 42/484 partially assisting them as well. |
|
|
|
Post by londonbuses184 on Jan 17, 2024 12:49:09 GMT
Ok. TFL need to publish this route quickly to be honest. I actually like this idea/proposed route. I know in the past buses went along there, but with many pinch point restrictions with council works a few years ago at present I would not recommend anything more than 8.8m long. Looking at the roads I think double deckers should be able to make it through the pinch points on Wightman Road. Maybe the problems will lie if there is major traffic but Wightman Road in general seems not so busy most of the time which should help the buses. I never knew about the weight limit on Alroy Road though so that will need to be resolved. |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Jan 17, 2024 17:28:32 GMT
A small change in the Enfield highway area but one that I would be interested to hear to help more evenly distribute bus route times & improve reliabilities: could the 121 & 307 swap termini (121 runs to Brimsdown, 307 runs to Enfield Island village). Both routes currently overlap each other between Oakwood & Enfield Highway but the 121 running down to Turnpike Lane is longer than the 307 running to Barnet Hospital, the 121 is also more likely to run into traffic, particularly around the Palmers Green area.
|
|
|
|
Post by sim02 on Jan 17, 2024 21:39:00 GMT
A small change in the Enfield highway area but one that I would be interested to hear to help more evenly distribute bus route times & improve reliabilities: could the 121 & 307 swap termini (121 runs to Brimsdown, 307 runs to Enfield Island village). Both routes currently overlap each other between Oakwood & Enfield Highway but the 121 running down to Turnpike Lane is longer than the 307 running to Barnet Hospital, the 121 is also more likely to run into traffic, particularly around the Palmers Green area. I’d say leave the 121 as it is for now. For 307, instead of running through Brimsdown, maybe it should be rerouted to Waltham Cross, thereby withdrawing 317 and extend the 377 to Brimsdown. |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Jan 17, 2024 21:51:55 GMT
A small change in the Enfield highway area but one that I would be interested to hear to help more evenly distribute bus route times & improve reliabilities: could the 121 & 307 swap termini (121 runs to Brimsdown, 307 runs to Enfield Island village). Both routes currently overlap each other between Oakwood & Enfield Highway but the 121 running down to Turnpike Lane is longer than the 307 running to Barnet Hospital, the 121 is also more likely to run into traffic, particularly around the Palmers Green area. I’d say leave the 121 as it is for now. For 307, instead of running through Brimsdown, maybe it should be rerouted to Waltham Cross, thereby withdrawing 317 and extend the 377 to Brimsdown. No the 377 wouldn’t be suitable to extend to Brimsdown not because of capacity issues but more because of the fact that the 377 doesn’t run on Sunday’s or late evenings. The only route that could viably be extended to Brimsdown to replace the 307 is the 349 but this breaks the direct link to Enfield (yes there is 191 but that is rather indirect) whereas my rerouted 121 would still retain this. |
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Jan 17, 2024 22:03:39 GMT
The 15 serves several very distinct and different markets. It is a tourist and commuter route between Trafalgar Square and the Tower then becomes a busy local route through the east end. I have always thought the Blackwall station terminus was faintly absurd when Canning Town is not much farther and is a major interchange these days. Blackwall gets a little use with transfers onto and off the DLR but otherwise the last few stops are very little-used. If I had to change anything therefore the 15 would be extended at both ends, stand space permitting, to run Oxford Circus to Canning Town at not less than 10bph. The 115 would run from East Ham to Poplar then via Prestons Road, Manchester Road and East Ferry Road to ASDA covering the 135 over this section. The D7 would divert via Spindrift Avenue covering the 135 there but with the direct link to ASDA broken from a couple of stops; those are within reasonably easy walking distance of West Ferry Road where the 277 offers an alternative link. The 135 at 10bph would then become Blackwall station to Kings Cross projected from its existing Old Street terminus to link into a much busier interchange. This maintains service levels along Commercial Road after losing the 115. There is housing along The Highway which could be usefully served by a local bus that way but IIRC there is a restriction preventing such an operation. The 100 covers some of the ground one way only and the N551 runs along there at night but not stopping over the critical section. I may be wrong on that but when the X15 was operating and there wee requests for it to stop and serve the flats they were told stopping buses along The Highway, which does get badly congested at times, was not permitted on safety grounds . I don’t think that will work as it breaks too many links in the Isle of Dogs headed towards the City. When I was living in crossharbour (till 2021) I often used the 135 to come back from office (usually left post 7pm so traffic would be light and I would get down literally at my doorstep!). It’s a very well used link between the Isle of Dogs headed east, and the only route along that corridor heading into the City. Cutting it at Blackwall will break that link; the 15 is a poor replacement in that regard What I would have done (if TfL had more money!) was: - keep 135 as is - 115: extend slightly in at least one direction. So either to barking in the east or London Bridge in the west. In fact if we were really ambitious it could be sent to elephant and castle or even old Kent road Tesco! - 15: eastbound, what I would do is for it to run to Blackwall, double back and use A1206, Preston’s road, go through wood wharf once it’s fully opened, do a circuit of Canary Wharf, then use the D3 route to city island, lower lea crossing to get to Canning Town |
|
|
|
Post by sim02 on Jan 17, 2024 22:08:05 GMT
I’d say leave the 121 as it is for now. For 307, instead of running through Brimsdown, maybe it should be rerouted to Waltham Cross, thereby withdrawing 317 and extend the 377 to Brimsdown. No the 377 wouldn’t be suitable to extend to Brimsdown not because of capacity issues but more because of the fact that the 377 doesn’t run on Sunday’s or late evenings. The only route that could viably be extended to Brimsdown to replace the 307 is the 349 but this breaks the direct link to Enfield (yes there is 191 but that is rather indirect) whereas my rerouted 121 would still retain this. Well, TFL need to make an Enfield Bus Consultation soon to be honest, concerning routes 121, 191, 231, 307, 313, 317 and 377. Something about some of them need to be changed. |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Jan 17, 2024 22:24:12 GMT
No the 377 wouldn’t be suitable to extend to Brimsdown not because of capacity issues but more because of the fact that the 377 doesn’t run on Sunday’s or late evenings. The only route that could viably be extended to Brimsdown to replace the 307 is the 349 but this breaks the direct link to Enfield (yes there is 191 but that is rather indirect) whereas my rerouted 121 would still retain this. Well, TFL need to make an Enfield Bus Consultation soon to be honest, concerning routes 121, 191, 231, 307, 313, 317 and 377. Something about some of them need to be changed. I definitely wouldn’t change the 313 the route is good how it is now. What would you do with the other routes mentioned though I would be interested to hear. I think the 191 has quite a bizzare routing I don’t like that it’s terminus in Brimsdown is walking distance from the near the beginning of its route in Ponders End. I’ve actually walked from Brimsdown to Ponders End myself (Durants Road) it’s not particularly safe though especially at night. |
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Jan 17, 2024 22:24:37 GMT
No the 377 wouldn’t be suitable to extend to Brimsdown not because of capacity issues but more because of the fact that the 377 doesn’t run on Sunday’s or late evenings. The only route that could viably be extended to Brimsdown to replace the 307 is the 349 but this breaks the direct link to Enfield (yes there is 191 but that is rather indirect) whereas my rerouted 121 would still retain this. Well, TFL need to make an Enfield Bus Consultation soon to be honest, concerning routes 121, 191, 231, 307, 313, 317 and 377. Something about some of them need to be changed. Ideas discussed here don’t mean TfL will consult or change routes! It doesn’t work like that thankfully. |
|
|
|
Post by Busboy105 on Jan 17, 2024 22:35:21 GMT
A small change in the Enfield highway area but one that I would be interested to hear to help more evenly distribute bus route times & improve reliabilities: could the 121 & 307 swap termini (121 runs to Brimsdown, 307 runs to Enfield Island village). Both routes currently overlap each other between Oakwood & Enfield Highway but the 121 running down to Turnpike Lane is longer than the 307 running to Barnet Hospital, the 121 is also more likely to run into traffic, particularly around the Palmers Green area. I’d say leave the 121 as it is for now. For 307, instead of running through Brimsdown, maybe it should be rerouted to Waltham Cross, thereby withdrawing 317 and extend the 377 to Brimsdown. If you're going to withdraw the 317, are you going to send the 307 down the 317 route to replace it? |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Jan 17, 2024 22:36:14 GMT
The 15 serves several very distinct and different markets. It is a tourist and commuter route between Trafalgar Square and the Tower then becomes a busy local route through the east end. I have always thought the Blackwall station terminus was faintly absurd when Canning Town is not much farther and is a major interchange these days. Blackwall gets a little use with transfers onto and off the DLR but otherwise the last few stops are very little-used. If I had to change anything therefore the 15 would be extended at both ends, stand space permitting, to run Oxford Circus to Canning Town at not less than 10bph. The 115 would run from East Ham to Poplar then via Prestons Road, Manchester Road and East Ferry Road to ASDA covering the 135 over this section. The D7 would divert via Spindrift Avenue covering the 135 there but with the direct link to ASDA broken from a couple of stops; those are within reasonably easy walking distance of West Ferry Road where the 277 offers an alternative link. The 135 at 10bph would then become Blackwall station to Kings Cross projected from its existing Old Street terminus to link into a much busier interchange. This maintains service levels along Commercial Road after losing the 115. There is housing along The Highway which could be usefully served by a local bus that way but IIRC there is a restriction preventing such an operation. The 100 covers some of the ground one way only and the N551 runs along there at night but not stopping over the critical section. I may be wrong on that but when the X15 was operating and there wee requests for it to stop and serve the flats they were told stopping buses along The Highway, which does get badly congested at times, was not permitted on safety grounds . I don’t think that will work as it breaks too many links in the Isle of Dogs headed towards the City. When I was living in crossharbour (till 2021) I often used the 135 to come back from office (usually left post 7pm so traffic would be light and I would get down literally at my doorstep!). It’s a very well used link between the Isle of Dogs headed east, and the only route along that corridor heading into the City. Cutting it at Blackwall will break that link; the 15 is a poor replacement in that regard What I would have done (if TfL had more money!) was: - keep 135 as is - 115: extend slightly in at least one direction. So either to barking in the east or London Bridge in the west. In fact if we were really ambitious it could be sent to elephant and castle or even old Kent road Tesco! - 15: eastbound, what I would do is for it to run to Blackwall, double back and use A1206, Preston’s road, go through wood wharf once it’s fully opened, do a circuit of Canary Wharf, then use the D3 route to city island, lower lea crossing to get to Canning Town With the 15 I would personally just extend it directly to Canning Town withdrawing it from the station forecourt. Is there space in the bus station if not it could probably stand on Hermit Road as far as I’m aware nothing has replaced the 241 at Hermit Road. With the 115 the only change I would make would be to extend it to Liverpool St Bus Station, there is definitely additional space there since TfL took out the 11 & 133 last year. |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Jan 17, 2024 22:44:18 GMT
I’d say leave the 121 as it is for now. For 307, instead of running through Brimsdown, maybe it should be rerouted to Waltham Cross, thereby withdrawing 317 and extend the 377 to Brimsdown. If you're going to withdraw the 317, are you going to send the 307 down the 317 route to replace it? Yes if the 307 was to be rerouted to Waltham Cross it would replace the 317 in its entirety (excluding the Little Park Gardens stop). I don’t think this is viable though because it’s not really easy to replace the Ponders End-Brimsdown section of the 307, the 377 as suggested above doesn’t work because the 377 doesn’t run on Sundays or evenings. I only suggested a simple swapping of the 121/307 termini as the 121 parallels the 307 for a long distance but takes longer to get to Oakwood Station, the broken links would be minimal & the 121’s reliability would be improved. |
|
|
|
Post by enviroPB on Jan 18, 2024 13:51:37 GMT
I don’t think that will work as it breaks too many links in the Isle of Dogs headed towards the City. When I was living in crossharbour (till 2021) I often used the 135 to come back from office (usually left post 7pm so traffic would be light and I would get down literally at my doorstep!). It’s a very well used link between the Isle of Dogs headed east, and the only route along that corridor heading into the City. Cutting it at Blackwall will break that link; the 15 is a poor replacement in that regard What I would have done (if TfL had more money!) was: - keep 135 as is - 115: extend slightly in at least one direction. So either to barking in the east or London Bridge in the west. In fact if we were really ambitious it could be sent to elephant and castle or even old Kent road Tesco! - 15: eastbound, what I would do is for it to run to Blackwall, double back and use A1206, Preston’s road, go through wood wharf once it’s fully opened, do a circuit of Canary Wharf, then use the D3 route to city island, lower lea crossing to get to Canning Town With the 15 I would personally just extend it directly to Canning Town withdrawing it from the station forecourt. Is there space in the bus station if not it could probably stand on Hermit Road as far as I’m aware nothing has replaced the 241 at Hermit Road. With the 115 the only change I would make would be to extend it to Liverpool St Bus Station, there is definitely additional space there since TfL took out the 11 & 133 last year. I don't think there's a real yearning from passengers on the 115 to all head to Liverpool Street. Changing buses at Aldgate East is perfectly adequate with routes 135 and 205 offering same stop interchange, and hellish Houndsditch will only add unreliability to the 115. A southbound extension to London Bridge via Fenchurch Street would do wonders for the 115, stand space is available after the 521 withdrawal. It could be funded by truncating the 343 to City Hall Tower Bridge Road, Tooley Street or Tower Gateway if there are traffic flow issues with the 343's former stand. As for the 15, begrudgingly I'd prefer a restoration to its frequency over sending it to Canning Town if there was only one choice. I was in favour of ronnie 's suggestion to send the 15 to Oxford Circus as well, but the removal of bus lanes along Regent Street just adds to potential delays and the 15 will only be curtailed away from Oxford Circus to avoid it. Still, there should be one direct bus from Aldgate to Oxford Circus instead of having to get two or three buses. |
|
|
|
Post by ucm131 on Jan 18, 2024 14:33:55 GMT
Reading all the comments on the 5 and 115, I think it is plausible for a return of direct express routes during peak hours. They don't take up stand space, and can relieve demand on certain heavy hitting routes without altering their frequency, plus only having one or two services per day can measure actual demand for point A to B. as similar to a trial basis. Whilst covid may have changed the timings for work commute, it can serve as an extra bonus for certain early work commuters in the morning as well as the evening backwards. The aim of these routes is to not alter/reduce or replace any of the existing bus services, but rather as an assist to the main routes similar to school routes but for work commuting.
Some ideas I had thought for now are as follows, Will update more ideas when my brain operates XD
SL8X: After Yeading White Hart Roundabout, The route applies the parkway and the M4 Directly to Heathrow Airport (And reverse).
H91X: Applies the M4 and Hogarth Road, direct towards Hammersmith (And reverse)
265X: The route omits New Malden, plying through the flyovers of the A3. However, Because of a lack of stops for kingston bypass (To Change towards for the 213), this route only works on the evening towards Tolworth.
102X (3 Variations):
1. Skips Golders Green through A406 Until Beaufort Drive, where the route reverts to normal 102 (And reverse).
2. Skips Muswell Hill and Bowes Park, Limited stopping in East Finchley road and reverts to normal 102 stopping (And reverse).
3. Applies A406 all the way until Edmonton Green
290X: (2 Variations):
1. Applies all flyovers and bypasses in Great Chertsey Road (Skipping all stations in Great Chertsey Road and Hampton Sainsbury's) until it's first stop at Sunbury (and reverse)
2. Applies Great Chertsey Road after Sunbury as a Twickenham Direct (also Skipping all stations in Great Chertsey Road and Hampton Sainsbury's).
655X: Departs at Mitcham at 0743, Skips Colliers Wood Station by the A24.
|
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Jan 18, 2024 17:24:44 GMT
Since the 29 has faced a severe curtailment due to roadworks is it possible to make a temporary route numbered 729 (similar to the 728 when Wandsworth Bridge was closed). I would have this route run between Trafalgar Square & Camden Town, running via the current 24’s routing between both places. Would stand on Hawley Road in Camden & the current 29 terminus in Trafalgar Square. I don’t think there would be enough passengers from both the 29 & 176 curtailments to displace onto the 24, especially since the 29 is one of the busiest routes in London, hence why I have proposed this temporary route.
|
|
