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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 19, 2020 19:42:48 GMT
I work in a completely unrelated industry, but whenever I’ve been seen any of the “big 4” audit firms in action as sure as night follows day, redundancies and cuts follow as part of efficiencies identified by the consultants. Expect some swingeing cuts in the coming years. I think severe cuts are inevitable whoever is involved......... I ventured into Central London yesterday for the first time in 3 months...... very eerie feel about the place and with the massive drop in TfL revenue what other option is there than to cut services? Cutting services is silly and drives people away as it's been seen in the previous CLBC. It's proven with stats and you may save yourself money now though you won't gain as much revenue. Some options such as extending the C1 to Waterloo and withdrawing the 507 are much better than trying to cut services. With less journeys made commuting into work (polls say the majority would be happy commuting in 2-3 times a week), maybe reducing the frequency on lines like the Victoria & Bakerloo line (which do not have any separate branches) is a much better option than continuing to cut bus services. You are only lead yourself down an even more bleak future by limiting the number of bus routes. Either keep the fares up long term to recover from the debt and merge longer services with shorter services to hopefully snippet off time. Unfortunately if people are not satisfied with the service they are getting and that they need to unnecessarily change they will move to options where they can get there without needing to change such as UBER. Or in other scenarios, even go and make a poll, and ask people how they could be driven in to using local bus services and making journeys that could previously be done by car, by bus or in some cases train. Though I do not deem it fair that people will now have to change (Remember the hopper is being removed) of which for some could then be their third bus they'd need to catch in some scenarios and fork 2/3x more money and for some of those in the poorest communities will have to suffer, not only that but their children now have to pay 40p which would then put even more financial strain on them. Ridiculous. |
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Post by greenboy on Jun 19, 2020 19:53:17 GMT
I think severe cuts are inevitable whoever is involved......... I ventured into Central London yesterday for the first time in 3 months...... very eerie feel about the place and with the massive drop in TfL revenue what other option is there than to cut services? Cutting services is silly and drives people away as it's been seen in the previous CLBC. It's proven with stats and you may save yourself money now though you won't gain as much revenue. Some options such as extending the C1 to Waterloo and withdrawing the 507 are much better than trying to cut services. With less journeys made commuting into work (polls say the majority would be happy commuting in 2-3 times a week), maybe reducing the frequency on lines like the Victoria & Bakerloo line (which do not have any separate branches) is a much better option than continuing to cut bus services. You are only lead yourself down an even more bleak future by limiting the number of bus routes. Either keep the fares up long term to recover from the debt and merge longer services with shorter services to hopefully snippet off time. Unfortunately if people are not satisfied with the service they are getting and that they need to unnecessarily change they will move to options where they can get there without needing to change such as UBER. Or in other scenarios, even go and make a poll, and ask people how they could be driven in to using local bus services and making journeys that could previously be done by car, by bus or in some cases train. With a greatly reduced income TfL have little choice but to cut services in Central London......parts of it are like a ghost town even during the daytime.....must be even worse at night. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 19, 2020 19:56:01 GMT
Cutting services is silly and drives people away as it's been seen in the previous CLBC. It's proven with stats and you may save yourself money now though you won't gain as much revenue. Some options such as extending the C1 to Waterloo and withdrawing the 507 are much better than trying to cut services. With less journeys made commuting into work (polls say the majority would be happy commuting in 2-3 times a week), maybe reducing the frequency on lines like the Victoria & Bakerloo line (which do not have any separate branches) is a much better option than continuing to cut bus services. You are only lead yourself down an even more bleak future by limiting the number of bus routes. Either keep the fares up long term to recover from the debt and merge longer services with shorter services to hopefully snippet off time. Unfortunately if people are not satisfied with the service they are getting and that they need to unnecessarily change they will move to options where they can get there without needing to change such as UBER. Or in other scenarios, even go and make a poll, and ask people how they could be driven in to using local bus services and making journeys that could previously be done by car, by bus or in some cases train. With a greatly reduced income TfL have little choice but to cut services in Central London......parts of it are like a ghost town even during the daytime.....must be even worse at night. Where do you deem quiet and ghostly even when we are in normal situations? |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 19, 2020 21:14:54 GMT
Cutting services is silly and drives people away as it's been seen in the previous CLBC. It's proven with stats and you may save yourself money now though you won't gain as much revenue. Some options such as extending the C1 to Waterloo and withdrawing the 507 are much better than trying to cut services. With less journeys made commuting into work (polls say the majority would be happy commuting in 2-3 times a week), maybe reducing the frequency on lines like the Victoria & Bakerloo line (which do not have any separate branches) is a much better option than continuing to cut bus services. You are only lead yourself down an even more bleak future by limiting the number of bus routes. Either keep the fares up long term to recover from the debt and merge longer services with shorter services to hopefully snippet off time. Unfortunately if people are not satisfied with the service they are getting and that they need to unnecessarily change they will move to options where they can get there without needing to change such as UBER. Or in other scenarios, even go and make a poll, and ask people how they could be driven in to using local bus services and making journeys that could previously be done by car, by bus or in some cases train. With a greatly reduced income TfL have little choice but to cut services in Central London......parts of it are like a ghost town even during the daytime.....must be even worse at night. If cuts are to happen (and I think that very likely), the axe is most likely to fall in zone 1, I agree, and I think targets are likely to be the City of London in general, any route that follows a tube line for a significant distance and multiple routes that follow each other down similar roads for a long distance. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 19, 2020 21:28:27 GMT
With a greatly reduced income TfL have little choice but to cut services in Central London......parts of it are like a ghost town even during the daytime.....must be even worse at night. If cuts are to happen (and I think that very likely), the axe is most likely to fall in zone 1, I agree, and I think targets are likely to be the City of London in general, any route that follows a tube line for a significant distance and multiple routes that follow each other down similar roads for a long distance. What cuts do you suggest could be conjured |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 19, 2020 21:42:05 GMT
With a greatly reduced income TfL have little choice but to cut services in Central London......parts of it are like a ghost town even during the daytime.....must be even worse at night. If cuts are to happen (and I think that very likely), the axe is most likely to fall in zone 1, I agree, and I think targets are likely to be the City of London in general, any route that follows a tube line for a significant distance and multiple routes that follow each other down similar roads for a long distance. But only on the basis of proper analysis after a certain period of time rather than knee jerk decisions  |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 19, 2020 21:48:32 GMT
If cuts are to happen (and I think that very likely), the axe is most likely to fall in zone 1, I agree, and I think targets are likely to be the City of London in general, any route that follows a tube line for a significant distance and multiple routes that follow each other down similar roads for a long distance. But only on the basis of proper analysis after a certain period of time rather than knee jerk decisions Correct - which is why I’m not answering vla6’s question above 😂 |
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Post by snowman on Jun 26, 2020 14:25:45 GMT
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 26, 2020 14:42:35 GMT
11% of it's revenue is stated. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 26, 2020 20:09:19 GMT
It made it to BBC London news, so not as quiet as you imply! Looks very much to me like we’re going to probably pay more for less services. The BBC article stated both the Bakerloo extension and all the improvements due for the Piccadilly line are under grave threat. Buses not mentioned specifically, but as I’ve mentioned before, zone 1 buses in particular might suffer, I feel. |
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Post by redbus on Jun 28, 2020 18:56:19 GMT
I reckon that there will be no immediate plans for cuts to bus services :-
- TfL bailout lasts to September, unclear what will happen afterwards
- Government want services restored to pre Covid-19 levels
- Central London will continue to be relatively empty and bus services unusually empty while offices workers are told to work from home and people are discouraged from travelling by bus. When this changes we'll get an idea what the 'new normal' on bus usage will start to look like, but until that is known services are unlikely to be cut permanently. Whether this will happen before the current bailout of TfL ends in September is unknown, but if the recommendations remain, my money is on another bailout.
- The Mayor will be facing an election next spring and so won't want to have significant cuts this side of the election.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 28, 2020 19:15:52 GMT
I reckon that there will be no immediate plans for cuts to bus services :-
- TfL bailout lasts to September, unclear what will happen afterwards
- Government want services restored to pre Covid-19 levels
- Central London will continue to be relatively empty and bus services unusually empty while offices workers are told to work from home and people are discouraged from travelling by bus. When this changes we'll get an idea what the 'new normal' on bus usage will start to look like, but until that is known services are unlikely to be cut permanently. Whether this will happen before the current bailout of TfL ends in September is unknown, but if the recommendations remain, my money is on another bailout.
- The Mayor will be facing an election next spring and so won't want to have significant cuts this side of the election.
I would imagine should such cuts need to take place on this side of the election then I assume for them to be focussed in Labour heartland. Many people vote Labour in London regardless of whatever and the chances of this seems to be higher in some boroughs. The best way to tell this is just by looking at the 2008 mayoral election to see which boroughs voted for Livingstone despite at that point he was a sinking ship. As a result I assume the 262 and 101 cuts will still go ahead and any services which go into boroughs which could swing spared for now. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 29, 2020 11:03:26 GMT
I didn't have a Zip Card until I got into college instead having to rely on the old bus pass system during my school years where Lambeth tried to unsuccessfully make sure I didn't get a pass because my secondary school was in Croydon literally next to the border even though it met the under 3 mile criteria. I also remember the 40p and then 70p child fares (possibly might have hit £1) before free travel was introduced. I was lucky enough to pay 20p and then increased to 40p even when I went to collage I had to pay for the adult fare with oyster and I was lucky to go to college in Isllington so it wasn't to bad. I remember when I had to pay 5p to get on the bus, when it was to then 10, 15, 20, for a long while, then 25p which I thought was rip off. Time it went to 30p/40p I was past the age. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 29, 2020 11:06:31 GMT
It is not a mere life style choice ... So he agrees it is a life style choice, just tried to justify why everyone else should pay for the decisions two people made. The choice to open the Bank of Mum n Dad is down to 2 people.... there are options. Why should people subsidise the fares of those three kids at the back of the bus that makes the journey unenjoyable to the rest of the bus? If you are not prepared to accept the financial responsibilities of being a parent, you are not prepared to be a parent. You have no option to pay for their education and health , as well as the child tax that gets paid to parents ... travel is one step too far. What exactly do you want parents to be responsible for? We don't always agree but on this I think you are spot on.
Things were much harder in the 80s and 90s but parents had to manage. If anything support should be given up to when children leave school otherwise when does it stop? do you then say a college leaver just starting a job should be supported with discount fares because of a low wage.
I also think TfL fares are far too cheap and again think people expect a lot compared to outside London. The fare has been £1.50 since 2015 without a increase! We have it too good in London and then complain when we don't get investment.
It is very cheap compared to the rest of the country, just people in London are in a bubble and do not seem to realise that. Go to many other country's and this sort of thing does not exist. As I have said previously return to the LEA bus passes so those hard off would get it paid for by the council. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 29, 2020 11:11:59 GMT
I think page 26 is quite enlightening. It seems the government is to blame for the temporary removal of free travel for the over 60s in the peaks and for children all day, while the proposed changes to the congestion charge are the Mayors doing. Personally I agree with the temporary removal of free travel for the over 60s in the peaks, but the rest of it makes little sense. For example to restart the economy we need people back at work, they can't be back at work if their children are at home, so schools need to be re-opened and children need to be able to get to school - and that means buses. We should not be penalising parents for sending their kids to school by bus. Well many parents would not be sending their children schools regardless of free travel or not. The economy doesn't just revolve around London. So should we have free travel for kids other buses around the country to get parents to go back to work to kickstart the economy.
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