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Post by ServerKing on Jan 19, 2024 7:28:30 GMT
You can’t just have buses running at high frequency in the hope passengers will use them. For many years buses have always seemed under used and think to a certain extent people expect buses to be half empty or to have double deckers on all routes regardless of demand! I don’t buy the argument frequency cut cause decline. There is so much wastefulness in the network especially in the evenings after 9pm when local buses carry fresh air. Fully agree with the evening frequencies and often between peaks being very generous. But there's the case that in a network increasingly expecting passengers to change buses on a single journey, any lower frequency would just be prohibitive. Already a 12 minute frequency is pushing it when you need to change buses. At night there's the added danger of pushing more passengers into cabs or Uber.
Having just returned from Luxembourg and having ridden on modern, clean trams and buses (which are free, but taxes and VAT are higher), the difference between there and TfL is night and day. Having to flag down an early DW on the 123, getting on the bus and being waved through by the driver as her Wayfarer isn't reading (she's tried to cover the yellow pad with a copy of the Metro but it adds to the confusion), finding a seat that's not occupied by someone's bag or discarded chicken boxes whilst an attempt at smashing the land speed record between Bruce Grove and Tottenham Hale is underway, is not quite the same  I think buses are getting someinvestment, but they are let down by poor infrastructure, this obsession with 20 zones, roadworks... and at times are hit and miss. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 19, 2024 7:38:44 GMT
There are suggestions Sadiq Khan will freeze some fares this year. This was covered on the ITV news earlier and below. Personally think this is only asking for trouble further down the line. Anyone would think there was an election this year 
Tube fares freeze hopes raised as Sadiq Khan reveals new passenger income forecasts
Guess he's (smartly) betting on a Labour win at the GE. Perhaps not so smartly expecting the coffers to be opened up by a Labour Govt. though if Starmer and Reeves stick to what they've been staying (though hopefully we'll get a positive u-turn for once from them). I don’t think they would u-turn, Labour would be under huge scrutiny if they suddenly went on a spending spree having bemoaned Tory finance policy for years. I think we are more likely to see new spending outside of London in areas like the north and Scotland. London will be far down the list of priorities in my opinion. That isn’t to say London wouldn’t see more cuts, it just wouldn’t receive any new money. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 19, 2024 7:46:49 GMT
We don't actually know why there will be a £185m shortfall as nothing has been confirmed as to whether a fare cut is coming or simply, less people are travelling. If it's the latter, maybe people will realise that simply cutting routes and frequencies just leads to further decline? You can’t just have buses running at high frequency in the hope passengers will use them. For many years buses have always seemed under used and think to a certain extent people expect buses to be half empty or to have double deckers on all routes regardless of demand! I don’t buy the argument frequency cut cause decline. There is so much wastefulness in the network especially in the evenings after 9pm when local buses carry fresh air. I agree that there's a lot of wastefulness after 9pm and in some cases night services could start earlier, such as the N137 going to Crystal Palace after 9pm and no need for the 417 as well. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 19, 2024 8:29:07 GMT
You can’t just have buses running at high frequency in the hope passengers will use them. For many years buses have always seemed under used and think to a certain extent people expect buses to be half empty or to have double deckers on all routes regardless of demand! I don’t buy the argument frequency cut cause decline. There is so much wastefulness in the network especially in the evenings after 9pm when local buses carry fresh air. I agree that there's a lot of wastefulness after 9pm and in some cases night services could start earlier, such as the N137 going to Crystal Palace after 9pm and no need for the 417 as well. This is where despite being disliked for being non standard 2 section working did come into its own. The extra buses and shqorter routes for when it's busiest but overlaps can be saved at quieter times. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 19, 2024 9:12:58 GMT
Now confirmed that TfL have frozen all fares until March 2025. Whilst that is great, it also shows how simplistic Khan seems to think the voting public are. How the sheep will only look at this and not the fact that TfL has been hugely mismanaged for years.
In true Khan style he is painting himself as being the saviour of the poor even though he is about to jack up their council tax bill by another record high to pay for yet more vanity projects. It’s time to cut the fat at city hall, starting with Khans press team.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 19, 2024 9:16:34 GMT
Now confirmed that TfL have frozen all fares until March 2025. Whilst that is great, it also shows how simplistic Khan seems to think the voting public are. How the sheep will only look at this and not the fact that TfL has been hugely mismanaged for years. The trouble is they will full for it hook, line and sinker and be totally unaware this leave £138m potentially unfunded. |
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Post by joefrombow on Jan 19, 2024 10:37:11 GMT
Now confirmed that TfL have frozen all fares until March 2025. Whilst that is great, it also shows how simplistic Khan seems to think the voting public are. How the sheep will only look at this and not the fact that TfL has been hugely mismanaged for years. The trouble is they will full for it hook, line and sinker and be totally unaware this leave £138m potentially unfunded. According to this caps will rise so in theory fares are still rising, whilst this is good for single journeys in the long run leaves a funding gap so expect more "restructuring and value for money to tfl" to be coming , Susan Hall hasn't a chance so be interesting to see what this and next year brings . |
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Post by towerman on Jan 19, 2024 12:14:06 GMT
Just thinking,if Covid hadn’t happened would the bus network have continued to grow rather than the cuts we’re seeing now.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 19, 2024 12:29:30 GMT
Just thinking,if Covid hadn’t happened would the bus network have continued to grow rather than the cuts we’re seeing now. I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't have been anything like the level of cuts in London or elsewhere but covid changed so much in such a relatively short space of time and for many people who switched to online shopping and remote working there's no going back. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 19, 2024 12:42:40 GMT
Just thinking,if Covid hadn’t happened would the bus network have continued to grow rather than the cuts we’re seeing now. I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't have been anything like the level of cuts in London or elsewhere but covid changed so much in such a relatively short space of time and for many people who switched to online shopping and remote working there's no going back. Covid just sped up the inevitable, it’s why in hindsight so many large supermarkets, chain cafes/restaurants and online only businesses were slightly better prepared than smaller independent places. We were always heading towards an online delivery cashless society but covid just accelerated it. So, imho, these cuts would have always happened but where an organisation like TfL may have had a 10 year plan it became a 1 year plan. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 19, 2024 12:49:23 GMT
Just thinking,if Covid hadn’t happened would the bus network have continued to grow rather than the cuts we’re seeing now. Probably not a TFLs finances were screwed before COVID. COVID just gave them a convenient excuse to blame everything on. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jan 19, 2024 14:41:17 GMT
The trouble is they will full for it hook, line and sinker and be totally unaware this leave £138m potentially unfunded. According to this caps will rise so in theory fares are still rising, whilst this is good for single journeys in the long run leaves a funding gap so expect more "restructuring and value for money to tfl" to be coming , Susan Hall hasn't a chance so be interesting to see what this and next year brings . It’s a good compromise if you had to devise a fare increase involving a freeze. If you simply commute to work and back you won’t see an increase. This is most perceptible on costs. If you make extra journeys say after work or on weekends going around town to the supermarket etc… you’ll feel it then but it’ll be less perceptible because 1. you won’t see a straight up increase when you tap unless you pay attention to the fact that you were supposed to cap at X number of journeys and 2. If you’re out and about to elsewhere like the supermarket or leisure you’ll be more focused on spendings on that rather than the cost of getting there. It’s politically rather well crafted. |
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Post by mondraker275 on Jan 19, 2024 16:46:44 GMT
Fully agree with the evening frequencies and often between peaks being very generous. But there's the case that in a network increasingly expecting passengers to change buses on a single journey, any lower frequency would just be prohibitive. Already a 12 minute frequency is pushing it when you need to change buses. At night there's the added danger of pushing more passengers into cabs or Uber.
Having just returned from Luxembourg and having ridden on modern, clean trams and buses (which are free, but taxes and VAT are higher), the difference between there and TfL is night and day. Having to flag down an early DW on the 123, getting on the bus and being waved through by the driver as her Wayfarer isn't reading (she's tried to cover the yellow pad with a copy of the Metro but it adds to the confusion), finding a seat that's not occupied by someone's bag or discarded chicken boxes whilst an attempt at smashing the land speed record between Bruce Grove and Tottenham Hale is underway, is not quite the same I think buses are getting someinvestment, but they are let down by poor infrastructure, this obsession with 20 zones, roadworks... and at times are hit and miss. This is the same Luxembourg that cant resist using our 173  My priorities would be to invest in technology and really focus on making roadworks efficient and not accepting disruption. |
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Post by WH241 on Jan 20, 2024 11:52:11 GMT
The Mayor is in full I am the hero mode. A whole £90 a year saving. There are some very interesting replies to his tweet and some make good points about the daily still increasing so you only benefit if making a few single trips.
I’ve stepped in to freeze TfL fares, putting up to £90 back into Londoners’ pockets while the Government hikes fares by 4.9% nationally.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 20, 2024 13:42:39 GMT
London transport: TfL fares frozen by Sadiq Khan until 2025London's mayor has announced he is freezing Transport for London (TfL) fares until March 2025 as part of a £123m investment in the capital's transport services.www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68020031
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