|
Post by snowman on Jan 26, 2022 7:35:13 GMT
Is the 345 rolling stock rotated between TfL rail service and the testing service? Or are the trains that are going to start on the Abbey Wood - Paddington line in a brand new condition? They were operating as 3 separate sub-fleets : the 7car on Shenfield, 7car, later 9car in West, and the tunnel test fleet. All the 7car on Shenfield line were swapped out by Christmas, and are currently being lengthened at Old Oak (a few still work some trains in the West), some of the tunnel test fleet has generally not been used in service, but many have previously operated services in the west. Periodically some get swapped for Maintenance. I suspect those that start the service will be cleaned to look as new (although more like 4 years old) and will need new Elizabeth line logos etc (many have TfL rail logos currently). There may be a very soft launch when testing is signed off (effectively just quietly open gates/barriers and let public on, as trains already doing a 12tph Paddington-Abbey Wood shadow service). If they do a big fanfare launch then people will expect the full through service to start immediately.
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Jan 26, 2022 8:07:37 GMT
Canary Wharf has now been handed over formally from Crossrail to TfL. Although one of the first stations to be physically completed, there were changes needed to some of the initial specifications and also upgrades to the fire safety systems. This just leaves Bond Street, which may remain closed when the Elizabeth Line opens to passengers although this is unlikely to be for longer than a few weeks. The station is available for evacuation purposes. www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/crossrail-hands-control-of-canary-wharfs-elizabeth-line-station-to-tfl-51177/
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Jan 26, 2022 8:51:19 GMT
Is the 345 rolling stock rotated between TfL rail service and the testing service? Or are the trains that are going to start on the Abbey Wood - Paddington line in a brand new condition? They were operating as 3 separate sub-fleets : the 7car on Shenfield, 7car, later 9car in West, and the tunnel test fleet. All the 7car on Shenfield line were swapped out by Christmas, and are currently being lengthened at Old Oak (a few still work some trains in the West), some of the tunnel test fleet has generally not been used in service, but many have previously operated services in the west. Periodically some get swapped for Maintenance. I suspect those that start the service will be cleaned to look as new (although more like 4 years old) and will need new Elizabeth line logos etc (many have TfL rail logos currently). There may be a very soft launch when testing is signed off (effectively just quietly open gates/barriers and let public on, as trains already doing a 12tph Paddington-Abbey Wood shadow service). If they do a big fanfare launch then people will expect the full through service to start immediately. That explains when the class 345 I caught a few weeks ago looked very new! I agree the other existing trains will need a clean up after 4 busy years of use on the Liverpool Street service.
|
|
|
Post by buspete on Jan 26, 2022 12:43:45 GMT
If you could extend the Gobin to Thamesmead, why cannot the Underground services that turn at Barking run down the same line and terminate at Thamesmead? Someone mentioned overcrowding on the DLR from Woolwich Arsenal, Crossrail will take a lot of people away from Woolwich, same as Greenwich people who changed there for DLR to Canary Wharf will again use Crossrail. Someone would probably say software or signalling. That is the problem with modern stuff, it is near on useless for interworking different types of trains on the same line. Also where would the Hammersmith & City link onto the new Goblin extension. That's my job a signalling engineer. I wouldn't think there would be problems with signalling, only if the District or Hammersmith & City goes driverless, which it won't, as the District uses 3rd party signalling at Putney - Wimbledon/Kew Gardens - Richmond. I would have thought traction would be a bigger issue with the Underground using 3rd rail and Gobin 25khz, not sure if the London Overground takes dual traction. I would extend both Underground and Overground to Thamesmead & Abbey Wood, at the same time extending the DLR there too
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jan 26, 2022 14:15:36 GMT
Someone would probably say software or signalling. That is the problem with modern stuff, it is near on useless for interworking different types of trains on the same line. Also where would the Hammersmith & City link onto the new Goblin extension. That's my job a signalling engineer. I wouldn't think there would be problems with signalling, only if the District or Hammersmith & City goes driverless, which it won't, as the District uses 3rd party signalling at Putney - Wimbledon/Kew Gardens - Richmond. I would have thought traction would be a bigger issue with the Underground using 3rd rail and Gobin 25khz, not sure if the London Overground takes dual traction. I would extend both Underground and Overground to Thamesmead & Abbey Wood, at the same time extending the DLR there too Why would Thamesmead require Underground, Overground & DLR extensions as apposed to just one or maybe two at a push?
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jan 26, 2022 15:31:56 GMT
Someone would probably say software or signalling. That is the problem with modern stuff, it is near on useless for interworking different types of trains on the same line. Also where would the Hammersmith & City link onto the new Goblin extension. That's my job a signalling engineer. I wouldn't think there would be problems with signalling, only if the District or Hammersmith & City goes driverless, which it won't, as the District uses 3rd party signalling at Putney - Wimbledon/Kew Gardens - Richmond. I would have thought traction would be a bigger issue with the Underground using 3rd rail and Gobin 25khz, not sure if the London Overground takes dual traction. I would extend both Underground and Overground to Thamesmead & Abbey Wood, at the same time extending the DLR there too Yes that would be ideal, not only for Thamesmead but for connections to Southeastern at Abbey Wood.
|
|
|
Post by buspete on Jan 26, 2022 18:18:22 GMT
That's my job a signalling engineer. I wouldn't think there would be problems with signalling, only if the District or Hammersmith & City goes driverless, which it won't, as the District uses 3rd party signalling at Putney - Wimbledon/Kew Gardens - Richmond. I would have thought traction would be a bigger issue with the Underground using 3rd rail and Gobin 25khz, not sure if the London Overground takes dual traction. I would extend both Underground and Overground to Thamesmead & Abbey Wood, at the same time extending the DLR there too Why would Thamesmead require Underground, Overground & DLR extensions as apposed to just one or maybe two at a push? If the DLR did go to Thamesmead, it would be infrequent, I guess every 10 minutes, so would easily get overwhelmed, the positive is that you could have several stops there as opposed to the Underground/Overground with just a central station, however with the Underground it will open the whole of central London with the District/H&C, the Overground will open handy North London links, but still very limited though.
|
|
|
Post by twobellstogo on Jan 26, 2022 19:35:38 GMT
Why would Thamesmead require Underground, Overground & DLR extensions as apposed to just one or maybe two at a push? If the DLR did go to Thamesmead, it would be infrequent, I guess every 10 minutes, so would easily get overwhelmed, the positive is that you could have several stops there as opposed to the Underground/Overground with just a central station, however with the Underground it will open the whole of central London with the District/H&C, the Overground will open handy North London links, but still very limited though. I think you can forget the Underground - from Barking it’s either/or, and as LO is already heading for Barking Riverside that’s the obvious one to extend further. I would agree with you about overwhelming a DLR extension if the Lizzy Line wasn’t a thing, but as it is a thing, I think your fears are unfounded.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jan 26, 2022 21:28:18 GMT
Why would Thamesmead require Underground, Overground & DLR extensions as apposed to just one or maybe two at a push? If the DLR did go to Thamesmead, it would be infrequent, I guess every 10 minutes, so would easily get overwhelmed, the positive is that you could have several stops there as opposed to the Underground/Overground with just a central station, however with the Underground it will open the whole of central London with the District/H&C, the Overground will open handy North London links, but still very limited though. Yes concerns have been expressed before about the likelihood of a DLR extension getting overwhelmed by the demand and passengers on the Beckton branch suffering as a result.
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 26, 2022 21:37:47 GMT
If the DLR did go to Thamesmead, it would be infrequent, I guess every 10 minutes, so would easily get overwhelmed, the positive is that you could have several stops there as opposed to the Underground/Overground with just a central station, however with the Underground it will open the whole of central London with the District/H&C, the Overground will open handy North London links, but still very limited though. I think you can forget the Underground - from Barking it’s either/or, and as LO is already heading for Barking Riverside that’s the obvious one to extend further. I would agree with you about overwhelming a DLR extension if the Lizzy Line wasn’t a thing, but as it is a thing, I think your fears are unfounded. I do always think that it was a huge missed opportunity to send the Underground over as opposed to the GOBLIN, however I think the layout at Barking is what ultimately sealed it. The line would have had to go underground to pass under the c2c line, and the c2c line would have needed 4th rail installed. You could just run the entire H&C in tunnels after Barking but then you have HS1 pretty much running underneath the c2c line the entire time which could make building a portal quite difficult. The Goblin would be the easiest to extend from Barking, although I don't think can be a contender in the short, or even medium term. While provision exists, it relies on Barking Riverside station being relocated underground which is funny considering the station hasn't even been fully built yet. The DLR is far from ideal, Beckton already having a service of only 8-10min is inadequate as it is so I don't think reducing that further is an option. Not to mention an extremely large portion of passengers from Beckton ride into Central London. The Thamesmead branch would likely need to run to Stratford International as you probably can't convince the commuters of Beckton to lose their central link, but Thamesmead can't ask for what it doesn't already have.
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Jan 27, 2022 7:32:34 GMT
The DLR extension to Thamesmead makes sense being kept on the list of proposals set to go ahead. I do wonder if within the next twenty to thirty years Thamesmead will have the DLR and Goblin trains serving that area. As for what greenboy said I think the Thamesmead residents will be grateful they won’t have to trek to Abbey Wood anymore rather than complain about not having a DLR Bank train.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jan 27, 2022 7:44:04 GMT
The DLR extension to Thamesmead makes sense being kept on the list of proposals set to go ahead. I do wonder if within the next twenty to thirty years Thamesmead will have the DLR and Goblin trains serving that area. As for what greenboy said I think the Thamesmead residents will be grateful they won’t have to trek to Abbey Wood anymore rather than complain about not having a DLR Bank train. I didn't mention anything about trains to Bank, the main concern is a DLR extension to Thamesmead getting swamped by demand and no scope to increase the level of service and passengers on the Beckton branch suffering as a result.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 27, 2022 9:56:46 GMT
They were operating as 3 separate sub-fleets : the 7car on Shenfield, 7car, later 9car in West, and the tunnel test fleet. All the 7car on Shenfield line were swapped out by Christmas, and are currently being lengthened at Old Oak (a few still work some trains in the West), some of the tunnel test fleet has generally not been used in service, but many have previously operated services in the west. Periodically some get swapped for Maintenance. I suspect those that start the service will be cleaned to look as new (although more like 4 years old) and will need new Elizabeth line logos etc (many have TfL rail logos currently). There may be a very soft launch when testing is signed off (effectively just quietly open gates/barriers and let public on, as trains already doing a 12tph Paddington-Abbey Wood shadow service). If they do a big fanfare launch then people will expect the full through service to start immediately. That explains when the class 345 I caught a few weeks ago looked very new! I agree the other existing trains will need a clean up after 4 busy years of use on the Liverpool Street service. A clean up??? You would be lucky, I could not see anything changed apart from logo's on the exterior of the train. One wonders why should it get Elizabeth Line on the roundels. After all, the Victoria line, etc. carry Underground. As in the London Overground carries 'Overground'. Would it make more sense for it to still carry TfL Rail or even Crossrail
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 27, 2022 10:02:14 GMT
Someone would probably say software or signalling. That is the problem with modern stuff, it is near on useless for interworking different types of trains on the same line. Also where would the Hammersmith & City link onto the new Goblin extension. That's my job a signalling engineer. I wouldn't think there would be problems with signalling, only if the District or Hammersmith & City goes driverless, which it won't, as the District uses 3rd party signalling at Putney - Wimbledon/Kew Gardens - Richmond. I would have thought traction would be a bigger issue with the Underground using 3rd rail and Gobin 25khz, not sure if the London Overground takes dual traction. I would extend both Underground and Overground to Thamesmead & Abbey Wood, at the same time extending the DLR there too I did not even think about that one. Pantograph and also 4th rail for electricity supply. That would be expensive.
|
|
|
Post by buspete on Jan 27, 2022 13:04:09 GMT
Reading and percolating the posts above a dive under would need to be built at Barking to link the Underground to Thamesmead extention and probably it own dedicated line from Barking to where the dedicated Goblin link begins, unless a flyover can be built where the Goblin junction is and run trains down existing Underground Lines as far at the Goblin Junction.
Turning to the traction supply, I would say the LO trains would need to be dual supplied. This might involve conversion or new trains.
All what I am saying is if you going to extend LO to Thamesmead/Abbey Wood, you might well spend more money and extend the Barking terminating trains as well. The link would be great if there were District 6tph/H&C 6th in addition to LO 4tph.
|
|