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Post by rif153 on Oct 9, 2020 21:41:38 GMT
I wouldn't doubt TfL would withdraw this route at the next big cut consultation like we had last year, it is largely duplicated by the 14 already (like the 45 and 35), and it could be replaced with a major increase on the 14. Or, to make it more useful, I'd recommend rerouting it to somewhere like Camden Town or to Waterloo, as a link that goes directly to Hyde Park from there doesn't exist, but I doubt that will go ahead, the route is barely needed anyway according to locals, and I'm not even sure if stand space is even available at either termini. The stand where the 88 used to stand in Camden Town is available perhaps it cold go there. The problem with that could be if the Morrisons where the 27 stands is knocked down then the 27 may need to stand at Camden Gardens instead.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 9, 2020 21:52:58 GMT
I wouldn't doubt TfL would withdraw this route at the next big cut consultation like we had last year, it is largely duplicated by the 14 already (like the 45 and 35), and it could be replaced with a major increase on the 14. Or, to make it more useful, I'd recommend rerouting it to somewhere like Camden Town or to Waterloo, as a link that goes directly to Hyde Park from there doesn't exist, but I doubt that will go ahead, the route is barely needed anyway according to locals, and I'm not even sure if stand space is even available at either termini. The 35 & 45 only runs together between Brixton & Elephant - it has far longer sections where they are separate unlike the 74 & 414 so I don't think there is any sort of comparison there I'm afraid.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 9, 2020 21:55:22 GMT
I'll give my view This is likely going to be the end of the 414 unless it gets some form of change (maybe where it is extended to Lancaster Gate via St Mary's Hospital) The 414 is one of those routes which sadly may die, the 94 is another if the proposed cut goes ahead and I could also see the 159 going with maybe the 3 restructured to go back to Oxford Circus. I think this was a long time coming EDIT: I think maybe a PVR increase on the 14 may not be very good as that'll overbus other corridors, maybe the 414 could run a Marble Arch (or proposed Lancaster Gate changes I suggested) to Putney Heath with the 14 cut back to Putney High Street Could the same be sort of said for the 452, not thinking that it should be axed completely but perhaps it could cut back to Notting Hill Gate and no longer run to Kensal Rise, but could the 52 cope on its on? The 452 was introduced to assist the 137 & 52 of which it has done so successfully so I can't see why you would cut it back. Recently, the 52 received a PVR cut as has the 452 during it's previous contract. I know I sound like a broken record but people must remember it's very easy to cut things but much harder to get them back and people need to think very carefully before doing so.
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Post by COBO on Oct 9, 2020 21:55:25 GMT
The stand where the 88 used to stand in Camden Town is available perhaps it cold go there. The problem with that could be if the Morrisons where the 27 stands is knocked down then the 27 may need to stand at Camden Gardens instead. What about that stand next to the petrol station why can’t the 27 use that?
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 9, 2020 21:58:25 GMT
I think the Morrisons has already gone now.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 9, 2020 22:04:10 GMT
I'll give my view This is likely going to be the end of the 414 unless it gets some form of change (maybe where it is extended to Lancaster Gate via St Mary's Hospital) The 414 is one of those routes which sadly may die, the 94 is another if the proposed cut goes ahead and I could also see the 159 going with maybe the 3 restructured to go back to Oxford Circus. I think this was a long time coming EDIT: I think maybe a PVR increase on the 14 may not be very good as that'll overbus other corridors, maybe the 414 could run a Marble Arch (or proposed Lancaster Gate changes I suggested) to Putney Heath with the 14 cut back to Putney High Street Could the same be sort of said for the 452, not thinking that it should be axed completely but perhaps it could cut back to Notting Hill Gate and no longer run to Kensal Rise, but could the 52 cope on its on? The 452 I believe was planned to divert to X instead of terminating at Kensal Rise, which no doubt would be interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2020 22:05:23 GMT
The problem with that could be if the Morrisons where the 27 stands is knocked down then the 27 may need to stand at Camden Gardens instead. What about that stand next to the petrol station why can’t the 27 use that? The 393 uses that stand, at least I think it still does.
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Post by COBO on Oct 9, 2020 22:06:38 GMT
What about that stand next to the petrol station why can’t the 27 use that? The 393 uses that stand, at least I think it still does. I thought that the 393 uses the same stand that the 27 uses.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2020 22:06:59 GMT
I think the Morrisons has already gone now. It will be back, they are building a new one as part of the development. But it is still open afaik.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2020 22:08:25 GMT
The 393 uses that stand, at least I think it still does. I thought that the 393 uses the same stand that the 27 uses. Although it’s been a few years, I remember the 27 used a stand right outside the supermarket up the road behind the rail bridge and the 393 used the stand in the petrol station. I’m really not sure if that is the case now as this was years ago.
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Post by TA1 on Oct 9, 2020 22:12:48 GMT
I think the Morrisons has already gone now. The petrol station has gone, the supermarket is still in situ.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 9, 2020 22:31:21 GMT
That's what I've seen then. I thought it was all a building site now.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 9, 2020 22:39:43 GMT
TFLs response to certain situations was really good in 2015-16 but has dropped in recent years. E.g when Boris proposed the changes to Routes 415, 436 & 452 where their routings changed (the 436 could've done with a rerouting to Tottenham Court Road but there we are, can't have everything), they had potential to go somewhere and help something else out. The 436 was rerouted to serve the New Elms development, with the 415 rerouted to help the 172 out and the 452 rerouted to help out the 77/87. With routes like the 414 is will they have much purpose in helping people travel orbitally by bus? Between its beginning and 2017, it thrived because of the round the corner Knightsbridge link, which in 2018 was replaced by a revised 23 and the 6 diversion round Park Lane. The route has had lots of changes to its route, 2 route changes in its first 3 years, so clearly there has been some indecisiveness about the route.
The 414 needs new opportunities to have some progress route wise, but seems unlikely
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Post by danorak on Oct 9, 2020 23:59:01 GMT
My suspicion is that the 414 is facing the same path to extinction as the C2. You could easily imagine it being withdrawn in the medium term and replaced by a diversion of the 23 to Putney rather than Hammersmith, with marginal increases on the 9 and 27 in replacement. The 87 or 91 might then also disappear from the Strand to avoid 'overbussing' this section, with possibly fewer 14s along Piccadilly too.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 10, 2020 3:54:40 GMT
A rather interesting proposal, considering that baring the odd half mile along Park Lane the 414 will be a short running of the 14....somewhat like the 45 is respectively with the 35. Frankly they should just withdraw the 414 and increase the PVR on the 14 to make up the difference. Presumably though it is cheaper this way to reduce and negotiate a new tender on a much cheaper rate than increase the premium rates on the 14. Route 414 will provide a handful of direct links not available on routes 14 or 74. I guess that having both routes 14 & 414 rather than just route 14 with a larger allocation can mean a bit more competition. An enhanced route 14 would be even harder for a rival operator to gain.
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