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Post by YY13VKP on Mar 20, 2024 17:56:07 GMT
What’s temporary about the 434 and what’s meant to be its permanent routing? I somehow missed that bit 😂 The 434 is expected to be re-routed via Higher Drive once works with some development located there is finished, that’s my understanding - for now, the 434 shadows the 407 between Purley & Caterham That’s correct, or to quote TfL “until mitigations are complete”. The cynic in me thinks this may become another 151 at Worcester Park saga but hopefully it should be done soon. I’ve not driven via Higher Drive in a few weeks so got no idea if any new work to install any bus infrastructure or construction work is being done up there but fingers crossed it’ll be serving there by the summer. Out of interest I wonder if any longer buses have slipped out on the 434 or is it still restricted at the Rickman Hill end? Still only single door buses so far  Yep and I think the only sticking point for the 434 not taking anything longer than 8.9m for now is the turning into Woodlands Grove. Technically a 9.6m SEe could do the 434 in its current form but there are no spares from the 450 allocation currently. |
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Post by ronnie on Mar 20, 2024 18:55:00 GMT
The 434 is expected to be re-routed via Higher Drive once works with some development located there is finished, that’s my understanding - for now, the 434 shadows the 407 between Purley & Caterham That’s correct, or to quote TfL “until mitigations are complete”. The cynic in me thinks this may become another 151 at Worcester Park saga but hopefully it should be done soon. I’ve not driven via Higher Drive in a few weeks so got no idea if any new work to install any bus infrastructure or construction work is being done up there but fingers crossed it’ll be serving there by the summer. Still only single door buses so far Yep and I think the only sticking point for the 434 not taking anything longer than 8.9m for now is the turning into Woodlands Grove. Technically a 9.6m SEe could do the 434 in its current form but there are no spares from the 450 allocation currently. Out of curiosity what’s the “151 at Worcester park saga”? |
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Post by PGAT on Mar 20, 2024 19:00:05 GMT
That’s correct, or to quote TfL “until mitigations are complete”. The cynic in me thinks this may become another 151 at Worcester Park saga but hopefully it should be done soon. I’ve not driven via Higher Drive in a few weeks so got no idea if any new work to install any bus infrastructure or construction work is being done up there but fingers crossed it’ll be serving there by the summer. Yep and I think the only sticking point for the 434 not taking anything longer than 8.9m for now is the turning into Woodlands Grove. Technically a 9.6m SEe could do the 434 in its current form but there are no spares from the 450 allocation currently. Out of curiosity what’s the “151 at Worcester park saga”? The new Enviro 400 EVs were meant to be used on the 151 but somebody realised they exceed the weight limit at Worcester Park so they can't stand there, and so the batch of new vehicles intended for the 151 went to the 213 instead |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2024 19:02:34 GMT
Out of curiosity what’s the “151 at Worcester park saga”? The new Enviro 400 EVs were meant to be used on the 151 but somebody realised they exceed the weight limit at Worcester Park so they can't stand there, and so the batch of new vehicles intended for the 151 went to the 213 instead Length is too long/turning radius is too much, not sure where the weight being the issue came from |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 20, 2024 19:03:56 GMT
Out of curiosity what’s the “151 at Worcester park saga”? The new Enviro 400 EVs were meant to be used on the 151 but somebody realised they exceed the weight limit at Worcester Park so they can't stand there, and so the batch of new vehicles intended for the 151 went to the 213 instead I'm not sure any works have been confirmed yet either to rectify it hence the saga could be continuing for a while yet. |
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Post by londonbuses on Mar 20, 2024 19:04:23 GMT
Out of curiosity what’s the “151 at Worcester park saga”? The new Enviro 400 EVs were meant to be used on the 151 but somebody realised they exceed the weight limit at Worcester Park so they can't stand there, and so the batch of new vehicles intended for the 151 went to the 213 instead There's no issue with weight, the Ees are too long/have a poor turning circle so hit the kerb when turning left out of the stand into Central Road. Edit - @notcha beat me to it! |
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Post by PGAT on Mar 20, 2024 19:04:27 GMT
The new Enviro 400 EVs were meant to be used on the 151 but somebody realised they exceed the weight limit at Worcester Park so they can't stand there, and so the batch of new vehicles intended for the 151 went to the 213 instead Length is too long/turning radius is too much, not sure where the weight being the issue came from I don't think that's true because the 213 can use Worcester Park to turn around but not allowed to stand |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2024 19:06:55 GMT
Length is too long/turning radius is too much, not sure where the weight being the issue came from I don't think that's true because the 213 can use Worcester Park to turn around but not allowed to stand It is true, they are not allowed to stand because if they try to exit from the stand and turn left, they'll mount the kerb, hence they have to turn around straight away and not go via the stand. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Mar 20, 2024 21:01:54 GMT
The 434 is expected to be re-routed via Higher Drive once works with some development located there is finished, that’s my understanding - for now, the 434 shadows the 407 between Purley & Caterham That’s correct, or to quote TfL “until mitigations are complete”. The cynic in me thinks this may become another 151 at Worcester Park saga but hopefully it should be done soon. I’ve not driven via Higher Drive in a few weeks so got no idea if any new work to install any bus infrastructure or construction work is being done up there but fingers crossed it’ll be serving there by the summer. Still only single door buses so far Yep and I think the only sticking point for the 434 not taking anything longer than 8.9m for now is the turning into Woodlands Grove. Technically a 9.6m SEe could do the 434 in its current form but there are no spares from the 450 allocation currently. Happened to go via Higher Drive this evening and there are now roadworks taking place once again outside one of the new block of flats coming up with another one set to start soon, so it looks like it's a little while yet before the 434 gets rerouted round there. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2024 21:20:34 GMT
That’s correct, or to quote TfL “until mitigations are complete”. The cynic in me thinks this may become another 151 at Worcester Park saga but hopefully it should be done soon. I’ve not driven via Higher Drive in a few weeks so got no idea if any new work to install any bus infrastructure or construction work is being done up there but fingers crossed it’ll be serving there by the summer. Yep and I think the only sticking point for the 434 not taking anything longer than 8.9m for now is the turning into Woodlands Grove. Technically a 9.6m SEe could do the 434 in its current form but there are no spares from the 450 allocation currently. Happened to go via Higher Drive this evening and there are now roadworks taking place once again outside one of the new block of flats coming up with another one set to start soon, so it looks like it's a little while yet before the 434 gets rerouted round there. seems like this is the last planned public-facing roadwork |
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Post by redexpress on Mar 20, 2024 21:29:12 GMT
I think this might have been better... 166... Not rerouted via Pampisford Road 312... Extended from South Croydon Garage to Caterham via the 407 and double decked 403... Extended from West Croydon to Sutton via the 407. 407... Withdrawn, replaced by changes to the 312 and 403. 455... Remains Old Lodge Lane to West Croydon using stand space vacated by the 403. That would all probably work pretty well. Would almost create the old 197 route, a route I never really understood why it was split in 1987 as even today it would hardly be a long route. The only reason I can imagine was mis matched freqs on either half of Croydon. There was certainly a frequency mismatch between the two ends of the 197, but in those days it would surely have been acceptable to have only part of the service running through to Caterham. I wonder whether the split was to allow the 197A to be tendered as a separate route in the hope that it would work out cheaper. In the event the whole 197 "group" was awarded to London Country anyway. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 20, 2024 21:36:17 GMT
That would all probably work pretty well. Would almost create the old 197 route, a route I never really understood why it was split in 1987 as even today it would hardly be a long route. The only reason I can imagine was mis matched freqs on either half of Croydon. There was certainly a frequency mismatch between the two ends of the 197, but in those days it would surely have been acceptable to have only part of the service running through to Caterham. I wonder whether the split was to allow the 197A to be tendered as a separate route in the hope that it would work out cheaper. In the event the whole 197 "group" was awarded to London Country anyway. Yes really until the late 90s/early 00s part services were still quite common. Even in Croydon alone there was probably a few. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Mar 20, 2024 23:08:27 GMT
Happened to go via Higher Drive this evening and there are now roadworks taking place once again outside one of the new block of flats coming up with another one set to start soon, so it looks like it's a little while yet before the 434 gets rerouted round there. seems like this is the last planned public-facing roadwork That’s good news if so. But I also think TfL should really be installing fixed bus stops along the new section of the 434. My concern with making the Higher Drive section of the 434 a Hail and Ride section is that how are people going to know where the bus stops and that it can actually be hailed anywhere along the route? This concern stems from the whole lack of publicity TfL demonstrated during the initial round of changes on March 2nd. They need to be making residents along the new section of the 434 aware that the bus will be there and that it will be hail and ride along that section. It’s basic stuff I know but too basic for TfL it seems for them to get a grasp of. Hopefully they may have learned from feedback given from the March 2nd changes though. |
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Post by tooting395 on Mar 21, 2024 7:33:09 GMT
Either way not quite as substantial as the changes in Croydon introduced between 1998 and 2000 with the 50, 60, 130 etc. What did these changes involve ? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 21, 2024 8:16:58 GMT
Either way not quite as substantial as the changes in Croydon introduced between 1998 and 2000 with the 50, 60, 130 etc. What did these changes involve ? Mostly turned the Croydon routes into what they are today. 60 was withdrawn between Streatham Common and Clapham Common and extended from TC to Old Coulsdon 166 converted to SD and become West Croydon to Chipstead Valley/Epsom Hosp 466 was introduced between Shirley Inn and Caterham on the Hill replacing part of the 166 and withdrawn 400 410 replaced the 400 between Wallington and Croydon then the 412 between Croydon and Norwood Junction. Some changes had to wait for the tramlink to open such as the 54 being cutback to Elmers End and the 130 heavily reduced in freq and the X30 withdrawn. There were more changes I'm sure but this is what I mostly remember. The 109 was shortened around this time but more in connection with the Jubilee line. |
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