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Post by Danny on Mar 30, 2024 12:58:55 GMT
Well I'm certainly surprised the 439's SEes passed a route test then. Hopefully the issues are resolved as both the old and new 434 routes through Kenley could end up unserved if TfL deem the turn too dangerous for bus use. Having done the 439 I’m amazed 9.7m vehicles are allowed on it, some parts of the route are far too tight for it and we had quite a few close shaves with other cars I agree. The route was definitely getter suited to the 8.9m vehicles. Looking at LVF one of SEes currently allocated to the 450 ran on the route, I wonder how that coped! |
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Post by DE20106 on Mar 30, 2024 13:14:26 GMT
Having done the 439 I’m amazed 9.7m vehicles are allowed on it, some parts of the route are far too tight for it and we had quite a few close shaves with other cars I agree. The route was definitely getter suited to the 8.9m vehicles. Looking at LVF one of SEes currently allocated to the 450 ran on the route, I wonder how that coped! I presume you mean SEe267, which is a 10.2. How on earth a 10.2 vehicle made it round there I don’t know, it was out all day as well!! |
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Post by Danny on Mar 30, 2024 13:25:34 GMT
I agree. The route was definitely getter suited to the 8.9m vehicles. Looking at LVF one of SEes currently allocated to the 450 ran on the route, I wonder how that coped! I presume you mean SEe267, which is a 10.2. How on earth a 10.2 vehicle made it round there I don’t know, it was out all day as well!! Yes that's the one I meant, appears I missed out the word longer! |
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Post by YY13VKP on Mar 30, 2024 22:56:24 GMT
Saw this posted on a local Facebook group. Kenley's councillors have received an update from TfL as to why the 434 isn't serving the top of Kenley via Higher Drive and they have confirmed that the 434 will serve Higher Drive in due course. The reason why it's being diverted away for the time being is due to "line of sight issues which are being addressed" - as I thought really, and driving down Higher Drive today I did notice parking suspension cones have been put up indicating more work is about to take place. TfL also mentioned that they will update their website to make it clear that the 434 change around Kenley is temporary. www.croydonconservatives.com/news/changes-bus-routes-kenley?fbclid=IwAR0CBzOH81IHjr9dWiz5qimnz_DyHQq_5a2HPpKY_m55zTZtM23C89KNsVsJust an update re this, an 8.9m E200 has failed the route test on multiple occasions. There are two issues regarding curvature and width of the roads, one is the left turn from Park Road onto Hayes Lane and the other are the turns on Wattendon Road. Another issue is the lack of accessibility for Hail & Ride on Hayes Lane. This issue can be read into with more detail by downloading the attached PDF extracted from an FOI which I did not submit. No solution has been made despite this test happening a few weeks back Thanks for sharing this, so based on this failed route test it looks like we might be waiting a good while yet before the 434 can use its proposed new route. When I said I hope this doesn't turn in to a 151 at Worcester Park saga, unfortunately it looks like I may be proven right given that no timescale has been agreed to address these issues. This is going to turn into a bit of a rant, but TfL had THREE YEARS to sort these issues out, yet they only decide to do a route test a month before the changes went live and then fail it which is ridiculous. Worse still, one of the main issues they raised was the junction between Park Road and Hayes Lane, a section which has been served by buses for the past 20 years without any major incident - indeed now served by longer buses than what was on the 434! Makes me wonder how the 439 was passed suitable for 9.7m buses applying that logic. Quite often the 434's met there too, with the Whyteleafe bound bus waiting until the Coulsdon bound bus passed before proceeding. Indeed I have a picture taken back in 2018 of two 434's meeting at said corner to demonstrate where the Whyteleafe bound bus waited for the Coulsdon bound bus to proceed. So why create a problem when there never was one in the first place? I see the Higher Drive/Cullesden Road turn which I thought would prove the most problematic for a bus to get round was mentioned but TfL say this can be mitigated by drivers taking care and caution. I was a little surprised to see that Wattendon Road was failed. Granted, those bends are rather sharp but without parked cars there the road is wide enough for two buses to fit. Parking restrictions here may not be a bad thing given that every house there has a driveway, but these should only be applied to the two bends and the areas leading up to them so that buses can turn safely and to save residents going up in arms about it. The comment about their being no overtaking opportunities on the straight sections of Wattendon Road is ridiculous. If TfL were to apply this logic then surely routes such as the 464 and R8 would fail their route tests too as they go through some sections where you can't overtake the bus. Hayes Lane does have a lot of green verges yes, but surely this is where fixed bus have their advantage over Hail and Ride as these kerbs can have a small area modified to accommodate buses stopping there safely and made more accessible. So it looks like there's a lot of work still to be done before TfL deem the 434's new route "safe" for bus operation, which I fear could take another year to solve yet if action isn't taken quickly. The whole thing is ridiculous given they had three years to test out the new 434 routing and then make changes to it in advance of March 2nd so that buses could start serving there when the changes went live. Most residents I've spoken to or seen on Facebook groups say the 434's re-routing can't come soon enough. Although, someone did report on a post I've seen on a local Facebook group that they saw a bus going up Park Road on Thursday so another route test may have since been conducted, but I wouldn't be surprised if nothing has changed - because nothing has apart from roadworks on Higher Drive finishing! |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 1, 2024 11:34:17 GMT
Seemed strange seeing the S4 running yday on Easter Sunday for the first time. Even running on Bank holidays is a new thing for the route aswell as having the Epsom service also running which obviously wouldn't have before with the 470.
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Post by evergreenadam on Apr 7, 2024 16:39:51 GMT
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 7, 2024 17:04:43 GMT
It was I thought said the 470 would extend to the hospital at one point after some longterm roadworks had been completed. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 7, 2024 18:39:38 GMT
It was I thought said the 470 would extend to the hospital at one point after some longterm roadworks had been completed. Many moons ago TfL did intend to extend the 470 but like a lot of things for the fringes of London it just seems to have been ignored. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 7, 2024 19:31:41 GMT
It was I thought said the 470 would extend to the hospital at one point after some longterm roadworks had been completed. Many moons ago TfL did intend to extend the 470 but like a lot of things for the fringes of London it just seems to have been ignored. And no doubt the 20 mins freq and Sunday service on the S2 now mean its even more forgotten. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 7, 2024 22:00:44 GMT
An update has been posted by the Kenley Councillors in regards to the 434's Kenley rerouting. In essence, another route test was conducted on the 28th March which again was deemed a failure. TfL are currently in the process of collaborating with Croydon Council to try and address the concerns raised in the hope to introduce the re-routing as soon as possible. Given this is Croydon Council we're dealing with here though, I'm sceptical about this. Though the council were not notified about the concerns raised at the Hayes Lane/Park Road Junction. Sounds like the obvious solution to the issues at Wattendon Road would be to introduce double yellow/red lines on the bends so that buses can get round it safely, but wouldn't that require permission or some sort of consultation? That would only push back the 434's rerouting even further.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 7, 2024 22:15:55 GMT
An update has been posted by the Kenley Councillors in regards to the 434's Kenley rerouting. In essence, another route test was conducted on the 28th March which again was deemed a failure. TfL are currently in the process of collaborating with Croydon Council to try and address the concerns raised in the hope to introduce the re-routing as soon as possible. Given this is Croydon Council we're dealing with here though, I'm sceptical about this. Though the council were not notified about the concerns raised at the Hayes Lane/Park Road Junction. Sounds like the obvious solution to the issues at Wattendon Road would be to introduce double yellow/red lines on the bends so that buses can get round it safely, but wouldn't that require permission or some sort of consultation? That would only push back the 434's rerouting even further. So in reality the whole consultation, tender of the 439 and then starting has been carried out without actually checking the 434 could safely get round the new section? |
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 7, 2024 22:20:43 GMT
An update has been posted by the Kenley Councillors in regards to the 434's Kenley rerouting. In essence, another route test was conducted on the 28th March which again was deemed a failure. TfL are currently in the process of collaborating with Croydon Council to try and address the concerns raised in the hope to introduce the re-routing as soon as possible. Given this is Croydon Council we're dealing with here though, I'm sceptical about this. Though the council were not notified about the concerns raised at the Hayes Lane/Park Road Junction. Sounds like the obvious solution to the issues at Wattendon Road would be to introduce double yellow/red lines on the bends so that buses can get round it safely, but wouldn't that require permission or some sort of consultation? That would only push back the 434's rerouting even further. So in reality the whole consultation, tender of the 439 and then starting has been carried out without actually checking the 434 could safely get round the new section? As the update said, an initial route test was carried out which found no issues, followed by one carried out with SEN40 closer to the time of introduction which found these issues and another one carried out on the 28th which confirmed these issues. I'm not entirely sure why these have only just surfaced now when they could have done this once TfL decided to proceed with the changes back in 2021 and knew back then that they wouldn't introduce them until 2024 so they had plenty of time to rectify the issues... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
An update has been posted by the Kenley Councillors in regards to the 434's Kenley rerouting. In essence, another route test was conducted on the 28th March which again was deemed a failure. TfL are currently in the process of collaborating with Croydon Council to try and address the concerns raised in the hope to introduce the re-routing as soon as possible. Given this is Croydon Council we're dealing with here though, I'm sceptical about this. Though the council were not notified about the concerns raised at the Hayes Lane/Park Road Junction. Sounds like the obvious solution to the issues at Wattendon Road would be to introduce double yellow/red lines on the bends so that buses can get round it safely, but wouldn't that require permission or some sort of consultation? That would only push back the 434's rerouting even further. TfL seem to be hiding the truth, there have been multiple route tests and not just the 2 they seem to say they have done "TfL has informed us that during the original route test, no issues were identified. However, upon re-testing the route just before its introduction, multiple vehicles were found parked on the bends of the road. This test drive was on 28th March" Also, wasn't the introduction supposed to be 2nd March, not sure how TfL thought the 28th was before that... SEN40, the bus seen pictured in the route test report, the date of which is unknown but IF TfL were telling the truth about only 2 route tests (hint, they weren't) it wouldn't have been out for some or the majority of the day stated, however it was in fact out in service for the whole day on the 28th of both March and February(tried to give them the benefit of the doubt.) The councillors themselves state "other issues have been raised along other parts of the route. These additional safety concerns have not been communicated to Councillors or to KENDRA, the Residents Association" which just shows how much TfL truely care, they don't. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 7, 2024 22:41:55 GMT
An update has been posted by the Kenley Councillors in regards to the 434's Kenley rerouting. In essence, another route test was conducted on the 28th March which again was deemed a failure. TfL are currently in the process of collaborating with Croydon Council to try and address the concerns raised in the hope to introduce the re-routing as soon as possible. Given this is Croydon Council we're dealing with here though, I'm sceptical about this. Though the council were not notified about the concerns raised at the Hayes Lane/Park Road Junction. Sounds like the obvious solution to the issues at Wattendon Road would be to introduce double yellow/red lines on the bends so that buses can get round it safely, but wouldn't that require permission or some sort of consultation? That would only push back the 434's rerouting even further. TfL seem to be hiding the truth, there have been multiple route tests and not just the 2 they seem to say they have done "TfL has informed us that during the original route test, no issues were identified. However, upon re-testing the route just before its introduction, multiple vehicles were found parked on the bends of the road. This test drive was on 28th March" Also, wasn't the introduction supposed to be 2nd March, not sure how TfL thought the 28th was before that... SEN40, the bus seen pictured in the route test report, the date of which is unknown but IF TfL were telling the truth about only 2 route tests (hint, they weren't) it wouldn't have been out for some or the majority of the day stated, however it was in fact out in service for the whole day on the 28th of both March and February(tried to give them the benefit of the doubt.) The councillors themselves state "other issues have been raised along other parts of the route. These additional safety concerns have not been communicated to Councillors or to KENDRA, the Residents Association" which just shows how much TfL truely care, they don't. A different bus must have been used for the route test on the 28th as a sighting was confirmed on a residents group. Looking at LVF was likely to have been done with 190. The test with SEN40 must have been done in either January or February. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 8, 2024 8:12:22 GMT
An update has been posted by the Kenley Councillors in regards to the 434's Kenley rerouting. In essence, another route test was conducted on the 28th March which again was deemed a failure. TfL are currently in the process of collaborating with Croydon Council to try and address the concerns raised in the hope to introduce the re-routing as soon as possible. Given this is Croydon Council we're dealing with here though, I'm sceptical about this. Though the council were not notified about the concerns raised at the Hayes Lane/Park Road Junction. Sounds like the obvious solution to the issues at Wattendon Road would be to introduce double yellow/red lines on the bends so that buses can get round it safely, but wouldn't that require permission or some sort of consultation? That would only push back the 434's rerouting even further. TfL seem to be hiding the truth, there have been multiple route tests and not just the 2 they seem to say they have done "TfL has informed us that during the original route test, no issues were identified. However, upon re-testing the route just before its introduction, multiple vehicles were found parked on the bends of the road. This test drive was on 28th March" Also, wasn't the introduction supposed to be 2nd March, not sure how TfL thought the 28th was before that... SEN40, the bus seen pictured in the route test report, the date of which is unknown but IF TfL were telling the truth about only 2 route tests (hint, they weren't) it wouldn't have been out for some or the majority of the day stated, however it was in fact out in service for the whole day on the 28th of both March and February(tried to give them the benefit of the doubt.) The councillors themselves state "other issues have been raised along other parts of the route. These additional safety concerns have not been communicated to Councillors or to KENDRA, the Residents Association" which just shows how much TfL truely care, they don't. The 439 is costing £50k short of £1m! to do exactly what the 434 was doing whilst the 289 has already added capacity for an extra 30 passengers per bus between Purley and Waddon Marsh with the DD conversion now gone in. Observations on blogs have described it as eerily quiet and I'm not convinced demand was ever going to be so high across Purley or certainly high enough that people couldn't have just changed from a 407/434 at Purley to a 289 at the same stop. |
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