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Post by MKAY315 on Mar 21, 2021 11:44:12 GMT
If you had to terminate the 115 in Barking where abouts would the last stop be. The Barking station stand is filled up as the 238 and 287 cause a lot of congestion around there at times. I would have said the London road stand as the 169 is the only route standing there. To think the 179 and the 87 (pre 2006 days) used to stand there. What I would do is just extend the 238 to Fair Cross, or build a new stand in Wakering Road. Although that would involve the 5/238/366 stop swapping location with the 62/287//368/ELT stop with the 287 retaining the south facing stand on station parade. Fair enough. That could work. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2021 11:53:40 GMT
I think the huge issue with East London is how many decent links can be provided with Central London with just some around the simple changes. Just simple things can include 8/205 to Stratford - just one of the two, probably 8 115 to Barking - It'll add three stops overall to the route, the 115 is just a bit irritating at the moment diving down High Street South to terminate in a very random place 339 to Tower Gateway - would much rather this than the route sent to Whipps Cross, it can just go down the Highway. 388/241 merged with the 388 cut to Liverpool St - I think the 388 is a dead man walking, but with a cut to Liverpool St and a merger with the 241 you'd be able to give people a link from the Custom House area to central London, and while indirect it'd be a link nonetheless. 242 to Leyton, Downsell Road - could probably just send this route through the Lea Interchange The 115 could be extended to London Bridge via the old 40, it reinstates the direct link between London Bridge and Aldgate rather than taking the convoluted 343. Personally don't like the idea of extending the 115 to London Bridge. The route suffers traffic hot spots already with the Blackwall Tunnel / Limehouse area and can't see that much demand if honest. We haven't had a link to London Bridge from the east since the 40 was cut back over 20 years ago without much outcry. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2021 11:57:42 GMT
You forget that the Red Arrows and night buses have been retained at the behest of the Government, who are paying buses to operate with reduced capacity to allow essential journeys to take place whilst allowing for social distancing. As it happens, both Red Arrows appear to be in line for future frequency reductions - a quite severe one in the case of the 521. Anyone living in East London would take issue with your assertion that West London is being "singled out". They lost the 48 and the 25 is a shadow of what it once was. I think the huge issue with East London is how many decent links can be provided with Central London with just some around the simple changes. Just simple things can include 8/205 to Stratford - just one of the two, probably 8 115 to Barking - It'll add three stops overall to the route, the 115 is just a bit irritating at the moment diving down High Street South to terminate in a very random place 339 to Tower Gateway - would much rather this than the route sent to Whipps Cross, it can just go down the Highway. 388/241 merged with the 388 cut to Liverpool St - I think the 388 is a dead man walking, but with a cut to Liverpool St and a merger with the 241 you'd be able to give people a link from the Custom House area to central London, and while indirect it'd be a link nonetheless. 242 to Leyton, Downsell Road - could probably just send this route through the Lea Interchange Like the above but do wonder if the 339 would work it is already fairly long and goes around the houses. Would be great to see the stand at Leyton brought back into use always seems such a waste - don't think its been used since the 241 used it to stand during the 2012 games apart from rail replacement buses. |
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 21, 2021 12:04:32 GMT
I think the huge issue with East London is how many decent links can be provided with Central London with just some around the simple changes. Just simple things can include 8/205 to Stratford - just one of the two, probably 8 115 to Barking - It'll add three stops overall to the route, the 115 is just a bit irritating at the moment diving down High Street South to terminate in a very random place 339 to Tower Gateway - would much rather this than the route sent to Whipps Cross, it can just go down the Highway. 388/241 merged with the 388 cut to Liverpool St - I think the 388 is a dead man walking, but with a cut to Liverpool St and a merger with the 241 you'd be able to give people a link from the Custom House area to central London, and while indirect it'd be a link nonetheless. 242 to Leyton, Downsell Road - could probably just send this route through the Lea Interchange Like the above but do wonder if the 339 would work it is already fairly long and goes around the houses. Would be great to see the stand at Leyton brought back into use always seems such a waste - don't think its been used since the 241 used it to stand during the 2012 games apart from rail replacement buses. The Downsell Road stand belongs to a past era, it was originally a trolleybus terminus. Given the development of the Olympic Park and Westfield Stratford City it no longer makes a logical route terminus (apart from the N205) although it is useful for curtailments and for use in emergencies. |
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Post by danorak on Mar 21, 2021 12:59:29 GMT
I can see why cutting duplicate sections of routes and relying on the Hopper appeals to accountants and the tidy minded, but there is a need for great care. You can probably get away with one change but when you go beyond that, bus travel starts to look unattractive. If you're a wheelchair user, can you be confident that the space will be free not just on the next bus but the one after that? Do I feel safe changing at that very busy (or conversely, isolated) stop? People will just drift away. Buses seem to be lumped in with all other motorised traffic at the moment, sitting in artificially created congestion.
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 21, 2021 15:09:21 GMT
That was partly why the 19 survived as it would have needed 3 or more changes to complete the route unlike say taking the first route along Chiswick High Road to Hammersmith then changing to the 27 or the 414 to Park Lane then the 6 to get from Putney Bridge to Maida Hill lets say.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Mar 21, 2021 15:54:05 GMT
That was partly why the 19 survived as it would have needed 3 or more changes to complete the route unlike say taking the first route along Chiswick High Road to Hammersmith then changing to the 27 or the 414 to Park Lane then the 6 to get from Putney Bridge to Maida Hill lets say. Funnily enough the 25 now needs three routes to do the Oxford Circus to Ilford route but I guess it doesn't matter when the areas it passes through are poor. |
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Post by ronnie on Mar 21, 2021 16:02:26 GMT
I think the huge issue with East London is how many decent links can be provided with Central London with just some around the simple changes. Just simple things can include 8/205 to Stratford - just one of the two, probably 8 115 to Barking - It'll add three stops overall to the route, the 115 is just a bit irritating at the moment diving down High Street South to terminate in a very random place 339 to Tower Gateway - would much rather this than the route sent to Whipps Cross, it can just go down the Highway. 388/241 merged with the 388 cut to Liverpool St - I think the 388 is a dead man walking, but with a cut to Liverpool St and a merger with the 241 you'd be able to give people a link from the Custom House area to central London, and while indirect it'd be a link nonetheless. 242 to Leyton, Downsell Road - could probably just send this route through the Lea Interchange If you had to terminate the 115 in Barking where abouts would the last stop be. The Barking station stand is filled up as the 238 and 287 cause a lot of congestion around there at times. I would have said the London road stand as the 169 is the only route standing there. To think the 179 and the 87 (pre 2006 days) used to stand there. From the roundabout after the A406 roundabout, I would send it via northern relief road / gurudwara way, onto the barking roundabout, barking station ans then the 169 stand to terminate there |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2021 16:03:03 GMT
That was partly why the 19 survived as it would have needed 3 or more changes to complete the route unlike say taking the first route along Chiswick High Road to Hammersmith then changing to the 27 or the 414 to Park Lane then the 6 to get from Putney Bridge to Maida Hill lets say. Funnily enough the 25 now needs three routes to do the Oxford Circus to Ilford route but I guess it doesn't matter when the areas it passes through are poor. Ironic really isn't it. Can't have those in W postcodes changing buses more than once  |
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Post by ronnie on Mar 21, 2021 16:07:21 GMT
That was partly why the 19 survived as it would have needed 3 or more changes to complete the route unlike say taking the first route along Chiswick High Road to Hammersmith then changing to the 27 or the 414 to Park Lane then the 6 to get from Putney Bridge to Maida Hill lets say. Funnily enough the 25 now needs three routes to do the Oxford Circus to Ilford route but I guess it doesn't matter when the areas it passes through are poor. Agree. The east has had it rough to be honest. As I mentioned earlier, there are areas which always seem to see their routes survive while the east gets the route cuts / frequency cuts (48 gone, 25 hacked back, 15 a shadow of its old self etc). Whereas (just to give an example, no offence to anyone!) Putney has 14, 22, 74 all getting to central London and 414 “almost” to central London |
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Post by MKAY315 on Mar 21, 2021 16:42:25 GMT
Funnily enough the 25 now needs three routes to do the Oxford Circus to Ilford route but I guess it doesn't matter when the areas it passes through are poor. Agree. The east has had it rough to be honest. As I mentioned earlier, there are areas which always seem to see their routes survive while the east gets the route cuts / frequency cuts (48 gone, 25 hacked back, 15 a shadow of its old self etc). Whereas (just to give an example, no offence to anyone!) Putney has 14, 22, 74 all getting to central London and 414 “almost” to central London It's hard and I think east has the 38, 8 and 55 going from there to Central London but could it be because East has frequent train services (underground) as opposed to other parts of London having to rely on frequent buses into Central London. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Mar 21, 2021 16:44:28 GMT
If you had to terminate the 115 in Barking where abouts would the last stop be. The Barking station stand is filled up as the 238 and 287 cause a lot of congestion around there at times. I would have said the London road stand as the 169 is the only route standing there. To think the 179 and the 87 (pre 2006 days) used to stand there. From the roundabout after the A406 roundabout, I would send it via northern relief road / gurudwara way, onto the barking roundabout, barking station ans then the 169 stand to terminate there A good suggestion there, however my thing is with that option is that it can be chock a block especially on the NCR |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 21, 2021 17:07:49 GMT
You forget that the Red Arrows and night buses have been retained at the behest of the Government, who are paying buses to operate with reduced capacity to allow essential journeys to take place whilst allowing for social distancing. As it happens, both Red Arrows appear to be in line for future frequency reductions - a quite severe one in the case of the 521. Anyone living in East London would take issue with your assertion that West London is being "singled out". They lost the 48 and the 25 is a shadow of what it once was. I think the huge issue with East London is how many decent links can be provided with Central London with just some around the simple changes. Just simple things can include 8/205 to Stratford - just one of the two, probably 8 115 to Barking - It'll add three stops overall to the route, the 115 is just a bit irritating at the moment diving down High Street South to terminate in a very random place 339 to Tower Gateway - would much rather this than the route sent to Whipps Cross, it can just go down the Highway. 388/241 merged with the 388 cut to Liverpool St - I think the 388 is a dead man walking, but with a cut to Liverpool St and a merger with the 241 you'd be able to give people a link from the Custom House area to central London, and while indirect it'd be a link nonetheless. 242 to Leyton, Downsell Road - could probably just send this route through the Lea Interchange I think these ideas are pretty sensible and logic, only one I'd worry about is the 388 & 241 being merged as then the 241 runs the risk of receiving a much less reliable service, would there be any case for a 241 to reach Stamford Hill? The 8 would be my own pick for a Stratford extension and I'd run it as an Oxford Circus to Stratford route. I'd like to see the 242 get through to Walthamstow although not sure how useful linking Homerton Hospital to Walthamstow would be |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2021 17:25:58 GMT
I think the huge issue with East London is how many decent links can be provided with Central London with just some around the simple changes. Just simple things can include 8/205 to Stratford - just one of the two, probably 8 115 to Barking - It'll add three stops overall to the route, the 115 is just a bit irritating at the moment diving down High Street South to terminate in a very random place 339 to Tower Gateway - would much rather this than the route sent to Whipps Cross, it can just go down the Highway. 388/241 merged with the 388 cut to Liverpool St - I think the 388 is a dead man walking, but with a cut to Liverpool St and a merger with the 241 you'd be able to give people a link from the Custom House area to central London, and while indirect it'd be a link nonetheless. 242 to Leyton, Downsell Road - could probably just send this route through the Lea Interchange I think these ideas are pretty sensible and logic, only one I'd worry about is the 388 & 241 being merged as then the 241 runs the risk of receiving a much less reliable service, would there be any case for a 241 to reach Stamford Hill? The 8 would be my own pick for a Stratford extension and I'd run it as an Oxford Circus to Stratford route. I'd like to see the 242 get through to Walthamstow although not sure how useful linking Homerton Hospital to Walthamstow would be 241 to Stamford Hill would be much more worse than Liverpool Street! Canning Town to Stratford even the long way around only takes about 20 mins so a extension to Liverpool Street would be fine IMO. |
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Post by redbus on Mar 21, 2021 17:35:10 GMT
I don't think anyone knows to what extent bus travel will return when things start to normalise after Covid. To have massive cuts in central London makes no sense until the new normal is known. It is reported in this forum that some central London routes will start to be cut when social distancing is relaxed with routes going from 7-8 to 10 minutes, a 25% cut. If passenger numbers bounce back that will be a disaster. Interestingly will be what will happen if social distancing isn't relaxed anytime soon, as is now being suggested. Will TfL and the Mayor continue hold off on their cuts. BBC Story that social distancing many remain for years
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