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Post by CircleLineofLife on Apr 7, 2021 9:53:47 GMT
Alternative suggestion for the 148, plus other central London ideas: 148 - Restructure to operate between Queens Park Station and Old Kent Road Tesco, via the 36 to Marble Arch, existing route to Elephant & Castle, then the 168. Maintaining useful links around central London. Also covers links/capacity from Old Kent Road towards Westminster if the 453 gets cut. 36 - Cut back to Marble Arch (or Lancaster Gate), to improve reliability. 168 - Rerouted at Elephant to Camberwell Green, or possibly onwards to North Dulwich, Herne Hill or Tulse Hill if able to operate reliably. 68/468 - Corridor restructured along with the 168 change. 68 cut back from Euston to Aldwych, Waterloo or Elephant, but extended south from West Norwood, such as to Thornton Heath. 468 to be cut back at the north end to improve reliability, e.g. to Camberwell Green or Tulse Hill. Frequencies adjusted if needed. 7 - Extend from Oxford Circus to Piccadilly Circus via the 94, re-introducing the link from Paddington to the West End. 94 - Re-routed to Holborn via the 98. 98 - Cut back to Marble Arch. Possible extension from Willesden to Wembley Park. 35/45 - Restructured, with the 35 cut back to Elephant & Castle, and the 45 extended to Shoreditch in place. Improves reliability on the 35, while making the shortened 45 more useful - also reduced capacity via London Bridge and Liverpool Street, while maintaining capacity towards Clapham Junction. Route numbers could swap here if it's preferable to keep the 35 to Shoreditch. Your 94/98 change why would they want to duplicate the central line even further and you remove links from north west to the west end your just adding 2 stations the 94 duplicates. And where would the 98 stand at Wembley Park |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 7, 2021 10:26:38 GMT
Don't particularly think whether this is a pander to voters or just complete out of touch with reality. For some reason people up at TfL towers seem to be in a really closed mindset that the bike is the first alternative people think of when they want an alternative to a bus. Alright in fairness should the weather and time be right and a docking station is nearby it might be. But really the first thing most people do is look on their phone to see if the tube station is the right one to get them to work in the minimal time, and if not then the Uber or Ola app is what's opened. Even Citymapper gives you predicted private hire costs. The car literally comes to where you are and dumps you exactly where you need to be. Another thing is cycling is extremely weather dependent, all well and good having people cycling the two weeks in August where we get sunshine. But what about the 40 weeks of rain and cold weather. People won't want to ride a bike, they want somewhere warm and comfortable, even if it means paying a bit more as a result. Ever since Uber drivers were classed as employees there seem to be even more of them out on the road. They send out discounts all the time and Ola does the same thing. London is increasingly becoming a city where cars are becoming more prevalent. The Weavers Quarter development here in Barking which was going to replace Gascoigne Estate has had its plans ripped up for the forthcoming half and it was completely redesigned to allow for car parking spaces as there was a huge uproar over the lack of car parking space in a borough where over 60% of households have a car. This sort of thing should have never been allowed to happen. Well, someone, somewhere, needs to do something - and quick. Or we sleepwalk into a car-led recovery in which the deaths caused by air pollution and inactive lifestyles will make Covid look like we were having a collective off-day. I don't care if people get on foot, buses, bikes, scooters, trams or trains, or even get the occasional taxi or uburp - but let's head off a car-led recovery before its is too late. The developers of Weavers Quarter should have held their ground and been backed up by the local council, the London Assembly and the Government. Agreed and then we can start from square one like we did back in 2000. Attractive measures that improve buses can then be introduced easily rather than needing to pull out cycle lanes and anger local cycling groups. We need a ballsy mayor. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 10:30:43 GMT
Well, someone, somewhere, needs to do something - and quick. Or we sleepwalk into a car-led recovery in which the deaths caused by air pollution and inactive lifestyles will make Covid look like we were having a collective off-day. I don't care if people get on foot, buses, bikes, scooters, trams or trains, or even get the occasional taxi or uburp - but let's head off a car-led recovery before its is too late. The developers of Weavers Quarter should have held their ground and been backed up by the local council, the London Assembly and the Government. Agreed and then we can start from square one like we did back in 2000. Attractive measures that improve buses can then be introduced easily rather than needing to pull out cycle lanes and anger local cycling groups. We need a ballsy mayor. Just out of interest what would you suggest? |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 7, 2021 10:37:51 GMT
Agreed and then we can start from square one like we did back in 2000. Attractive measures that improve buses can then be introduced easily rather than needing to pull out cycle lanes and anger local cycling groups. We need a ballsy mayor. Just out of interest what would you suggest? Bus lanes introduced on certain stretches of road such as Golders Green to North Finchley but also certain banned turns to improve reliability on certain routes. Also higher frequencies rather than lower, and really promoting bus use such as with better seats and better standards on the whole. Certain networks of buses could receive branding such as the Hampstead Garden Suburb routes imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 11:11:35 GMT
Just out of interest what would you suggest? Bus lanes introduced on certain stretches of road such as Golders Green to North Finchley but also certain banned turns to improve reliability on certain routes. Also higher frequencies rather than lower, and really promoting bus use such as with better seats and better standards on the whole. Certain networks of buses could receive branding such as the Hampstead Garden Suburb routes imo. Sounds interesting, the only thing I really don’t agree with you on is seating. I’m of the opinion that high end seating works in rural areas because passengers are likely to use the bus for a much longer distance than in London. Ultimately I think it would be a costly mistake that would cost passenger numbers due to weight restrictions, TfL buses are already heavy weight due to the specifications. Also I would only agree branding is needed on routes like the express routes so 607, X26, X68 and X140 although even the 607 might be unnecessary. I just feel that locals who are the majority of passengers know their own routes. It’s unfortunate if travellers get on but maybe improving bus stop posters and real time information would be better. Honestly if you were gonna get on the Hampstead Garden routes for a specific reason you would have already researched where it was taking you and not just guess. That’s just my opinion though. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 7, 2021 11:19:41 GMT
Don't particularly think whether this is a pander to voters or just complete out of touch with reality. For some reason people up at TfL towers seem to be in a really closed mindset that the bike is the first alternative people think of when they want an alternative to a bus. Alright in fairness should the weather and time be right and a docking station is nearby it might be. But really the first thing most people do is look on their phone to see if the tube station is the right one to get them to work in the minimal time, and if not then the Uber or Ola app is what's opened. Even Citymapper gives you predicted private hire costs. The car literally comes to where you are and dumps you exactly where you need to be. Another thing is cycling is extremely weather dependent, all well and good having people cycling the two weeks in August where we get sunshine. But what about the 40 weeks of rain and cold weather. People won't want to ride a bike, they want somewhere warm and comfortable, even if it means paying a bit more as a result. Ever since Uber drivers were classed as employees there seem to be even more of them out on the road. They send out discounts all the time and Ola does the same thing. London is increasingly becoming a city where cars are becoming more prevalent. The Weavers Quarter development here in Barking which was going to replace Gascoigne Estate has had its plans ripped up for the forthcoming half and it was completely redesigned to allow for car parking spaces as there was a huge uproar over the lack of car parking space in a borough where over 60% of households have a car. This sort of thing should have never been allowed to happen. Well, someone, somewhere, needs to do something - and quick. Or we sleepwalk into a car-led recovery in which the deaths caused by air pollution and inactive lifestyles will make Covid look like we were having a collective off-day. I don't care if people get on foot, buses, bikes, scooters, trams or trains, or even get the occasional taxi or uburp - but let's head off a car-led recovery before its is too late. The developers of Weavers Quarter should have held their ground and been backed up by the local council, the London Assembly and the Government. The local council did try to back them up, but the issue is if the people you are building houses for want the car park then what will you do? You're not going to build what you think is better but know what it's not what people want or you can just listen to the people. Otherwise you will just get a load of houses you might end up struggling to sell or rent out. East London apart from Tower Hamlets and Newham have very high routes of car usage, it's in the majority in Barking and Dagenham, Redbridge and Havering and it really reflects the poor transport options in the area, even Newham borders very close to the 50% mark. The houses in Barking Riverside are selling very well, and unsurprisingly the majority come with places for people to park their private vehicles. Just looking at Barking once again as it's where the development is located. Your options bus wise all focus on you getting to Barking Station, where you either have the extremely overcrowded District Line or the extremely overcrowded c2c, not to mention the station looks like a post apocalyptic zombie zone. The District Line is so slow it's ridiculous to a point you can drive to a lot of places faster while the c2c have trains skipping empty half the time while dangerous crowds start to build up on the platform. It's such a ridiculous state of affairs, people only put themselves through it because they have to and not because they are opting to. Look on BBC London news every morning and the A13 heading into Central London is always on there as being a standstill traffic jam with the sheer amount of people driving in towards Central London, it's the only road consistently mentioned again and again. The bus links in Barking aren't the best either, links heading West are poor. You have the 5 and 238 of which are both complete disaster zones for crowding. The 5 being in the top 15 most used routes in London while the 238 has one of the highest pax/mile in London. The 366 doesn't even need an introduction for its crowding. The 62, 287, 368 and EL3 all link to other suburbs so while people use them quite well, they're usually used as part of other journeys unless the end destination is Barking Town Centre. Then you have the EL2 which is just a crowd buster for the 5 while the 169 and EL1 are pretty much crowded solid any peak and are a fight to use. The EL1 at Ilford, even during the pandemic is a ridiculous sight, the removal of open boarding means we are now back to the days of where one bus can only leave the stop once the one behind turns up. Why would anyone voluntarily use bus routes which are in a state like this? But TfL aren't even interested in improving the network around here, ever since the EL2 was rerouted nothing meaningful was ever done, the renumbering of the 387 was more so a waste of resources than a meaningful change. Then let me not start about Dagenham, they don't even have the option of the c2c there as a District alternative, the only c2c station is Dagenham Dock at every 30 minutes while the District once again takes stupidly long to get into Central London, not to mention the frequency halves east of Barking. The buses there are very poor, living in Dagenham East you have the 103 taking you to Rainham of all places and direction and Romford the other as the town centre link. It runs every 12ish minutes when someone in a car won't need to wait on a lonely road for a bus to turn up. Even Dagenham Heathway where bus provision is relatively decent, the poor night bus links among other factors mean that pretty much every single house you walk past has a car parked outside it. When this is the state of the bus network and train network in just one borough in East London, can you blame people for wanting a car? You need to make public transport attractive for them instead of gentrifying the place up and hoping that they either move out so that they're not your problem or where you bully them out of owning a car and making life unnecessarily difficult for them just to further a political agenda. It's not as if people here own brand new BMWs or Mercedes, they just own a car because it's what they need to get around. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 7, 2021 11:47:44 GMT
Bus lanes introduced on certain stretches of road such as Golders Green to North Finchley but also certain banned turns to improve reliability on certain routes. Also higher frequencies rather than lower, and really promoting bus use such as with better seats and better standards on the whole. Certain networks of buses could receive branding such as the Hampstead Garden Suburb routes imo. Sounds interesting, the only thing I really don’t agree with you on is seating. I’m of the opinion that high end seating works in rural areas because passengers are likely to use the bus for a much longer distance than in London. Ultimately I think it would be a costly mistake that would cost passenger numbers due to weight restrictions, TfL buses are already heavy weight due to the specifications. Also I would only agree branding is needed on routes like the express routes so 607, X26, X68 and X140 although even the 607 might be unnecessary. I just feel that locals who are the majority of passengers know their own routes. It’s unfortunate if travellers get on but maybe improving bus stop posters and real time information would be better. Honestly if you were gonna get on the Hampstead Garden routes for a specific reason you would have already researched where it was taking you and not just guess. That’s just my opinion though. The countryside is more spaced out so I know what you mean. Maybe on certain routes where end to end travel is very prominent (not like the W7 though) comfier seats could be introduced in order to make it more attractive. An example of this from my experiences and many people's knowledge on this forum could be the 109 as there is heavy demand from Brixton & Streatham to Croydon - though not the most attractive in terms of using it. The X26 & X68 could be other examples of this. I think lots of routes should be branded - I know it didn't work the best in Barkingside however there could always be different routes on each bus so for example say the EL1/2/3 received branding (which I think they should, don't worry I do know there's the ELT branding) you could list the EL1 and it's places of interest, EL2, then EL3 etc. I would encourage higher frequencies, as Eastlondoner62 said the 5, 238, 366 & EL1 are always packed so to make them more attractive higher frequencies should be in place. I know it's being reduced but the 13 should get increased, same with the 143, 316 & 382. I do also wish TFL were far more transparent with their changes and really told people what was going on, for example I used the 86 end to end back in Early 2020 and down the Stratford to Ilford the 86 I was on & the 25 in front were absolutely rammed whereas the 425 behind was carrying very few people. Though I am not local to East London and it could have been very different to others it would've been a help to advertise what is going on more. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 7, 2021 12:04:00 GMT
Bus lanes introduced on certain stretches of road such as Golders Green to North Finchley but also certain banned turns to improve reliability on certain routes. Also higher frequencies rather than lower, and really promoting bus use such as with better seats and better standards on the whole. Certain networks of buses could receive branding such as the Hampstead Garden Suburb routes imo. Sounds interesting, the only thing I really don’t agree with you on is seating. I’m of the opinion that high end seating works in rural areas because passengers are likely to use the bus for a much longer distance than in London. Ultimately I think it would be a costly mistake that would cost passenger numbers due to weight restrictions, TfL buses are already heavy weight due to the specifications. Also I would only agree branding is needed on routes like the express routes so 607, X26, X68 and X140 although even the 607 might be unnecessary. I just feel that locals who are the majority of passengers know their own routes. It’s unfortunate if travellers get on but maybe improving bus stop posters and real time information would be better. Honestly if you were gonna get on the Hampstead Garden routes for a specific reason you would have already researched where it was taking you and not just guess. That’s just my opinion though. The very thing they must is do is get the basics right which you mentioned elsewhere - make the bus journey quicker through bus priority, keep reliability up & provide good information at stops and so forth just to hold what they have. Where I do slightly disagree is after they have that done, they must do more to attract others and branding certain routes and local networks, create information hubs to grab publications from like maps, timetables and some routes with longer journeys to have better interiors for all people. In fact, many more local routes outside of London are now gaining buses with these more luxurious seats let alone the long distance routes and the weight factor would be very minimal as London buses are shorter in length in general - cost will be a prohibitive but if you don’t speculate you don’t accumulate. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 12:27:09 GMT
We’ve moved on from stickers on buses for route branding I hope. This has always been a problem with fleets needing to be flexible across routes.
TfL seem to inhibit themselves in this area. A digital display on the sides of buses that is linked with smart blinds, could provide the route branding and advertising. Advertisers could be tempted to pay more to be able to target specific audiences because they know the buses will be seen in certain areas, or where their target audiences differ.
I would trial adapted buses capable of carrying bikes on a route like the 465, like they do in the USA.
Look at where people visit, travel patterns are changing. The airports and business districts are quieter, but local outside attractions are getting busier. More buses to places like Chessington , Hampton Court, London Zoo.
Routes with established trends including high levels end to end travel, lay on express journeys / sections or dedicated a full on express route like the X26/68/140/607.
Look at outside London to see where a TfL route could link with a commercial network . Already here it could be argued, but how about my example of the 465 again, they could connect at Dorking with the 93 to Horsham , through ticketing....
142 could connect with Arriva’s 724 to St Albans and beyond, or the 500 to Aylesbury.
TfL sponsored routes linking from TFL rail stations in Maidenhead, Twyford, Reading, These don’t need to be TfL run, just sponsored , so one could buy a one day London travel card on bus from Marlow to Maidenhead , use TfL rail to London and back.
And again, welcome cyclists onto buses with racks fitted
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Post by danorak on Apr 7, 2021 12:33:18 GMT
Sounds interesting, the only thing I really don’t agree with you on is seating. I’m of the opinion that high end seating works in rural areas because passengers are likely to use the bus for a much longer distance than in London. Ultimately I think it would be a costly mistake that would cost passenger numbers due to weight restrictions, TfL buses are already heavy weight due to the specifications. Also I would only agree branding is needed on routes like the express routes so 607, X26, X68 and X140 although even the 607 might be unnecessary. I just feel that locals who are the majority of passengers know their own routes. It’s unfortunate if travellers get on but maybe improving bus stop posters and real time information would be better. Honestly if you were gonna get on the Hampstead Garden routes for a specific reason you would have already researched where it was taking you and not just guess. That’s just my opinion though. The very thing they must is do is get the basics right which you mentioned elsewhere - make the bus journey quicker through bus priority, keep reliability up & provide good information at stops and so forth just to hold what they have. Where I do slightly disagree is after they have that done, they must do more to attract others and branding certain routes and local networks, create information hubs to grab publications from like maps, timetables and some routes with longer journeys to have better interiors for all people. In fact, many more local routes outside of London are now gaining buses with these more luxurious seats let alone the long distance routes and the weight factor would be very minimal as London buses are shorter in length in general - cost will be a prohibitive but if you don’t speculate you don’t accumulate. I would also suggest that we're in danger of turning the initial useful concept of the hopper into a drawback: I'm probably a bit guilty of this myself when trying to work out what TfL is up to on this thread, but it is starting to become a tool whereby routes can be run for operational and cost convenience rather than where passengers want to go. Coupled with the trimming of the time window, that doesn't bode well. |
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Post by danorak on Apr 7, 2021 12:34:34 GMT
We’ve moved on from stickers on buses for route branding I hope. This has always been a problem with fleets needing to be flexible across routes. TfL seem to inhibit themselves in this area. A digital display on the sides of buses that is linked with smart blinds, could provide the route branding and advertising. Advertisers could be tempted to pay more to be able to target specific audiences because they know the buses will be seen in certain areas, or where their target audiences differ. I would trial adapted buses capable of carrying bikes on a route like the 465, like they do in the USA. Look at where people visit, travel patterns are changing. The airports and business districts are quieter, but local outside attractions are getting busier. More buses to places like Chessington , Hampton Court, London Zoo. Routes with established trends including high levels end to end travel, lay on express journeys / sections or dedicated a full on express route like the X26/68/140/607. Look at outside London to see where a TfL route could link with a commercial network . Already here it could be argued, but how about my example of the 465 again, they could connect at Dorking with the 93 to Horsham , through ticketing.... 142 could connect with Arriva’s 724 to St Albans and beyond, or the 500 to Aylesbury. TfL sponsored routes linking from TFL rail stations in Maidenhead, Twyford, Reading, These don’t need to be TfL run, just sponsored , so one could buy a one day London travel card on bus from Marlow to Maidenhead , use TfL rail to London and back. And again, welcome cyclists onto buses with racks fitted I may be a bit harsh here, but if you've got a bike, why should you take up space on a bus when you could be riding it? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 12:35:24 GMT
Sounds interesting, the only thing I really don’t agree with you on is seating. I’m of the opinion that high end seating works in rural areas because passengers are likely to use the bus for a much longer distance than in London. Ultimately I think it would be a costly mistake that would cost passenger numbers due to weight restrictions, TfL buses are already heavy weight due to the specifications. Also I would only agree branding is needed on routes like the express routes so 607, X26, X68 and X140 although even the 607 might be unnecessary. I just feel that locals who are the majority of passengers know their own routes. It’s unfortunate if travellers get on but maybe improving bus stop posters and real time information would be better. Honestly if you were gonna get on the Hampstead Garden routes for a specific reason you would have already researched where it was taking you and not just guess. That’s just my opinion though. The countryside is more spaced out so I know what you mean. Maybe on certain routes where end to end travel is very prominent (not like the W7 though) comfier seats could be introduced in order to make it more attractive. An example of this from my experiences and many people's knowledge on this forum could be the 109 as there is heavy demand from Brixton & Streatham to Croydon - though not the most attractive in terms of using it. The X26 & X68 could be other examples of this. I think lots of routes should be branded - I know it didn't work the best in Barkingside however there could always be different routes on each bus so for example say the EL1/2/3 received branding (which I think they should, don't worry I do know there's the ELT branding) you could list the EL1 and it's places of interest, EL2, then EL3 etc. I would encourage higher frequencies, as Eastlondoner62 said the 5, 238, 366 & EL1 are always packed so to make them more attractive higher frequencies should be in place. I know it's being reduced but the 13 should get increased, same with the 143, 316 & 382. I do also wish TFL were far more transparent with their changes and really told people what was going on, for example I used the 86 end to end back in Early 2020 and down the Stratford to Ilford the 86 I was on & the 25 in front were absolutely rammed whereas the 425 behind was carrying very few people. Though I am not local to East London and it could have been very different to others it would've been a help to advertise what is going on more. I'm sorry I don't buy the whole branding will encourage people to use buses! Londoners are too busy and in a rush. Branding also restricts buses so makes allocations tight (I know they usually leave a few buses in standard livery). Londoners struggle reading blinds let alone branding, also could argue much like old via blinds that people wouldn't know the direction of destinations on the side of the bus or if it had passed that point. Re the 86 trip used that corridor a lot and people will always ram onto the first bus I have seen it many times. Happens on the EL corridor between Ilford and Barking as well where I have stepped back from people fighting to get a EL1 and I had a almost empty 169 behind alway the way to Barking. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 7, 2021 13:11:21 GMT
The countryside is more spaced out so I know what you mean. Maybe on certain routes where end to end travel is very prominent (not like the W7 though) comfier seats could be introduced in order to make it more attractive. An example of this from my experiences and many people's knowledge on this forum could be the 109 as there is heavy demand from Brixton & Streatham to Croydon - though not the most attractive in terms of using it. The X26 & X68 could be other examples of this. I think lots of routes should be branded - I know it didn't work the best in Barkingside however there could always be different routes on each bus so for example say the EL1/2/3 received branding (which I think they should, don't worry I do know there's the ELT branding) you could list the EL1 and it's places of interest, EL2, then EL3 etc. I would encourage higher frequencies, as Eastlondoner62 said the 5, 238, 366 & EL1 are always packed so to make them more attractive higher frequencies should be in place. I know it's being reduced but the 13 should get increased, same with the 143, 316 & 382. I do also wish TFL were far more transparent with their changes and really told people what was going on, for example I used the 86 end to end back in Early 2020 and down the Stratford to Ilford the 86 I was on & the 25 in front were absolutely rammed whereas the 425 behind was carrying very few people. Though I am not local to East London and it could have been very different to others it would've been a help to advertise what is going on more. I'm sorry I don't buy the whole branding will encourage people to use buses! Londoners are too busy and in a rush. Branding also restricts buses so makes allocations tight (I know they usually leave a few buses in standard livery). Londoners struggle reading blinds let alone branding, also could argue much like old via blinds that people wouldn't know the direction of destinations on the side of the bus or if it had passed that point. Re the 86 trip used that corridor a lot and people will always ram onto the first bus I have seen it many times. Happens on the EL corridor between Ilford and Barking as well where I have stepped back from people fighting to get a EL1 and I had a almost empty 169 behind alway the way to Barking. I agree here, I don't think branding will take off in London. The way forward in London is access to better information rather that trying to pry people who pass by walking on the road, they're usually on their phones as opposed to looking up at a bus and suddenly feel like they want to visit the exchange mall. I think something that should be looked at is far more detailed screens at bus stops. Screens that probably display the next few stops on a route that's approaching the bus stop, screens which display disruptions. Disruptions is something really important, even just small things. Like even little things just regarding disruption can be really useful. The bus network suffers a lot regarding this, maybe at stops a little message if routes are running at slightly widened headway for whatever reason. For example if a few buses on the 86 are running late and bunching a message saying "Route 86 is currently suffering slight delays, you might need to wait slightly longer for a bus" would really help if it was rolled out at as much stops as it could. Alongside this, where possible disruptions should be made public in many ways as possible. If I'm waiting 20 minutes for a 55 one day, I want to know what's causing it. Is it a protest somewhere? That might mean I need to reroute completely. I don't want to get on a bus after so long just to find out that it's diverted away from where I need to go anyway. One thing I hope is that if LEDs are introduced in the future is that they're linked with the iBus system for buses. Currently I find way too many situations of where the blinds say one thing and the iBus says another thing. On a 115 the other day we got turned to "Canning Town, Barking Road" but the blinds actually read "Canning Town Station" and this is where kick off point was. It's where I needed to go so wasn't a huge inconvenience but it's just an example of what usually ends up happening. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 7, 2021 13:32:07 GMT
We’ve moved on from stickers on buses for route branding I hope. This has always been a problem with fleets needing to be flexible across routes. I have to laugh at how constant this myth keeps coming up - the recent scheme in Barkingside shows that actually you can keep buses on the correct route the majority of the time, strays were limited far more than people have even given credit for and the allocation wasn't 100% branded - 25% of each route's allocation was unbranded which also happens outside of London depending on the operator which leaves easily enough scope to keep the correct bus on each route most of the time. Even outside of London, buses stray off their branded routes yet it doesn't stop these operators from continuing to invest in branding. If you think branding is simply 'stickers on buses', then I don't know where you have been over the last 20 years  Numerous examples outside of London say otherwise |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 7, 2021 13:40:31 GMT
The countryside is more spaced out so I know what you mean. Maybe on certain routes where end to end travel is very prominent (not like the W7 though) comfier seats could be introduced in order to make it more attractive. An example of this from my experiences and many people's knowledge on this forum could be the 109 as there is heavy demand from Brixton & Streatham to Croydon - though not the most attractive in terms of using it. The X26 & X68 could be other examples of this. I think lots of routes should be branded - I know it didn't work the best in Barkingside however there could always be different routes on each bus so for example say the EL1/2/3 received branding (which I think they should, don't worry I do know there's the ELT branding) you could list the EL1 and it's places of interest, EL2, then EL3 etc. I would encourage higher frequencies, as Eastlondoner62 said the 5, 238, 366 & EL1 are always packed so to make them more attractive higher frequencies should be in place. I know it's being reduced but the 13 should get increased, same with the 143, 316 & 382. I do also wish TFL were far more transparent with their changes and really told people what was going on, for example I used the 86 end to end back in Early 2020 and down the Stratford to Ilford the 86 I was on & the 25 in front were absolutely rammed whereas the 425 behind was carrying very few people. Though I am not local to East London and it could have been very different to others it would've been a help to advertise what is going on more. I'm sorry I don't buy the whole branding will encourage people to use buses! Londoners are too busy and in a rush. Branding also restricts buses so makes allocations tight (I know they usually leave a few buses in standard livery). Londoners struggle reading blinds let alone branding, also could argue much like old via blinds that people wouldn't know the direction of destinations on the side of the bus or if it had passed that point. Re the 86 trip used that corridor a lot and people will always ram onto the first bus I have seen it many times. Happens on the EL corridor between Ilford and Barking as well where I have stepped back from people fighting to get a EL1 and I had a almost empty 169 behind alway the way to Barking. I'm sorry I don't buy the whole branding will encourage people to use buses! Londoners are too busy and in a rush. Branding also restricts buses so makes allocations tight (I know they usually leave a few buses in standard livery). Londoners struggle reading blinds let alone branding, also could argue much like old via blinds that people wouldn't know the direction of destinations on the side of the bus or if it had passed that point. Re the 86 trip used that corridor a lot and people will always ram onto the first bus I have seen it many times. Happens on the EL corridor between Ilford and Barking as well where I have stepped back from people fighting to get a EL1 and I had a almost empty 169 behind alway the way to Barking. I agree here, I don't think branding will take off in London. The way forward in London is access to better information rather that trying to pry people who pass by walking on the road, they're usually on their phones as opposed to looking up at a bus and suddenly feel like they want to visit the exchange mall. I think something that should be looked at is far more detailed screens at bus stops. Screens that probably display the next few stops on a route that's approaching the bus stop, screens which display disruptions. Disruptions is something really important, even just small things. Like even little things just regarding disruption can be really useful. The bus network suffers a lot regarding this, maybe at stops a little message if routes are running at slightly widened headway for whatever reason. For example if a few buses on the 86 are running late and bunching a message saying "Route 86 is currently suffering slight delays, you might need to wait slightly longer for a bus" would really help if it was rolled out at as much stops as it could. Alongside this, where possible disruptions should be made public in many ways as possible. If I'm waiting 20 minutes for a 55 one day, I want to know what's causing it. Is it a protest somewhere? That might mean I need to reroute completely. I don't want to get on a bus after so long just to find out that it's diverted away from where I need to go anyway. One thing I hope is that if LEDs are introduced in the future is that they're linked with the iBus system for buses. Currently I find way too many situations of where the blinds say one thing and the iBus says another thing. On a 115 the other day we got turned to "Canning Town, Barking Road" but the blinds actually read "Canning Town Station" and this is where kick off point was. It's where I needed to go so wasn't a huge inconvenience but it's just an example of what usually ends up happening. Branding can work anywhere, in fact branding is a part of everyone's lives in some shape or form and if we are going to get serious about attracting more people to use buses, branding can have it's place in the equation. Infrastructure is key (real time information) and I've already spoke about better information displayed which should be done first along with speeding up journey times & keeping the service reliable but there is no doubt in my mind that if a coherent and attractive branding scheme was provided (people weirdly seem to think branding is just put some places on the side and call it a day when it's scope is actually much greater), it could potentially bring new custom in - appearance is a key aspect especially when I've come across the amount of everyday people instantly recognise that the bus they're boarding is brand new & clean. |
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Numerous examples outside of London say otherwise