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Post by Busboy105 on Apr 17, 2021 16:45:55 GMT
The W4 is a prime victim of this. Even during COVID, the bus is full at peaks. The sad thing is that it can’t get longer buses due to the roads it serves in Tottenham and a frequency increase would be a bit of an overkill
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 17, 2021 16:51:15 GMT
The 490 is another single deck route which has high loadings resulting in capacity issues, especially being a route which serves Heathrow.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 17, 2021 17:17:26 GMT
The 490 is another single deck route which has high loadings resulting in capacity issues, especially being a route which serves Heathrow. I thought the 490 should've instead been cutback to Richmond with the 493 serving Pools on the Park. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 17, 2021 17:29:55 GMT
And yet it only runs every 12 minutes? That suggests to me that any capacity issues occur at specific times/locations rather than being continual. The same is probably true for a number of routes that will be cited in this thread. The P4 has a similar frequency and yet it has capacity issues a lot of the time. Even in the evening after the peak has finished, you can still get heavy loads |
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Post by thesquirrels on Apr 17, 2021 17:36:50 GMT
184, but mostly towards the Wood Green end, and mostly due to peak/school traffic.
W15, lots of through use between Hackney/Homerton and Leyton/stone and between all of those points and Walthamstow, as well as local journeys from Leyton/stone tube stations, and Whipps Cross Hospital is a major traffic objective. The route does a lot of heavy lifting for a single decker. Hackney has a long tradition of sending it's pupils to schools in Waltham Forest, in no small part due to Government taking Hackney's limping (at the time) education system out of the council's hands for a number of years. The W15 joins the dots here too.
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Post by aaron1 on Apr 17, 2021 18:51:52 GMT
316 is very Bad as SD route it very full fast what it needs is a mix of SD and DD like the DD will go far as North Kensington
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 17, 2021 18:55:25 GMT
316 is very Bad as SD route it very full fast what it needs is a mix of SD and DD like the DD will go far as North Kensington Agreed, that and the C11 need frequency increases. Those two get way too packed |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 17, 2021 18:59:46 GMT
And yet it only runs every 12 minutes? That suggests to me that any capacity issues occur at specific times/locations rather than being continual. The same is probably true for a number of routes that will be cited in this thread. I think the 276 isn't an issue like this, but a slightly different issue where the crowds are isolated to specific parts of the route. The section between Newham Hospital and Canning Town doesn't tend to be extremely loaded, but between Canning Town and Stratford it's a total carnage before becoming quiet once again throughout the Bow and Hackney Wick area heading towards Homerton and Hackney. Then around the Dalston area it tends to get a bit busy, but not totally unbearable. As a result an every 12 frequency is perfect for an extremely large portion of the route north of Stratford and between Newham Hospital and Canning Town, while the section between Canning Town and Stratford is where the route's capacity is woefully inadequate. The issue being here that you can't deck the route in any way due to the low bridge by West Ham Station, and any frequency increase would over-bus the rest of the route. The obvious answer here would be to introduce a few shorts between Stratford and Newham Hospital but TfL don't usually seem to be a fan of those for some reason. It's quite the sight seeing the 276s loading up at Stratford heading to West Ham. The 276 can go under that bridge with DDs as DDs are 14"6 whilst the bridge is 14"9 so should be no issue there. I would question some of the roads round Star Lane but there is a low bridge in Hackney Wick. |
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Post by beaver14uk on Apr 17, 2021 19:01:17 GMT
On what evidence, just observations. quote author=" bus12451" source="/post/630454/thread" timestamp="1618675347"]124, 126, 162, 181, 244, 273, 284, 286, 380, 386, 484, B16 and P4 have capacity issues mostly during peak times. The 126 and B16 already see some DD workings throughout the day, and sometimes on the 286 too. As has been mentioned multiple times on this forum recently, the 286 should be upgraded to DD without a doubt. The 126 does not solely use DDs presumably because the 124, 161 and 261 run parallel to the 126 along certain parts of the route, which is adequate in TfL's eyes. The 484 is regularly overcrowded between Lewisham and Brockley, especially in the late afternoons/evenings, it uses 9.7m buses. Before the vehicle order for the 484 was announced, I was personally hoping it would get longer buses but it didn't. Other notable mentions are the 162, 273, 386 and P4. I don't think the P4's frequency is sufficient as it is usually overcrowded from both ends of the route. The 162, 386 and 273 use 8.9m buses and run at every 15, 15 and 20 minutes Mon-Sat respectively. I feel that these routes deserve frequency increases at the very least, as well as higher capacity buses where possible (386 and 484 should be able to take up to 10.2m). The 244 was planned to be converted to DD alongside the 178 and 291 as part of the Elizabeth Line SE London bus changes but that did not go ahead unfortunately. It would have not only benefitted this route but also the 380 in the Thamesmead West area. Looking back at the 178 and 291 DD conversions, their usage figures ever since then have meant that these two routes could never go back to their previous SD allocation. Not sure if much can be done about the 124, 181 and 284 apart from making adjustments to other routes and maybe slight frequency increases on the 181 and 284.[/quote] |
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Post by cl54 on Apr 17, 2021 19:08:06 GMT
386 - 3 large comprehensives and a 6th floor college on the route plus lots of busy solo sections. Only a 15 minute frequency (20 on evenings and Sundays). How many of these schools don't have another bus? Warren Comprehensive in Chadwell Heath for example has the once every 35 minute single decker 362, but the every 10 minute double decker 62 means there's no need to actually increase the 362 as a result. All of them are passed by the 386. Other routes are available with a 5 to 10 minute walk. The 6th form college used to be a comprehensive with a 653 school route. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 19:08:55 GMT
I think the 276 isn't an issue like this, but a slightly different issue where the crowds are isolated to specific parts of the route. The section between Newham Hospital and Canning Town doesn't tend to be extremely loaded, but between Canning Town and Stratford it's a total carnage before becoming quiet once again throughout the Bow and Hackney Wick area heading towards Homerton and Hackney. Then around the Dalston area it tends to get a bit busy, but not totally unbearable. As a result an every 12 frequency is perfect for an extremely large portion of the route north of Stratford and between Newham Hospital and Canning Town, while the section between Canning Town and Stratford is where the route's capacity is woefully inadequate. The issue being here that you can't deck the route in any way due to the low bridge by West Ham Station, and any frequency increase would over-bus the rest of the route. The obvious answer here would be to introduce a few shorts between Stratford and Newham Hospital but TfL don't usually seem to be a fan of those for some reason. It's quite the sight seeing the 276s loading up at Stratford heading to West Ham. The 276 can go under that bridge with DDs as DDs are 14"6 whilst the bridge is 14"9 so should be no issue there. I would question some of the roads round Star Lane but there is a low bridge in Hackney Wick. Sorry but you are wrong! double deckers can't go under the second bridge (This is 13"0) - A double decker came to grief way back in the 1990s when running on a North London Line rail replacement. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 17, 2021 19:15:07 GMT
The 276 can go under that bridge with DDs as DDs are 14"6 whilst the bridge is 14"9 so should be no issue there. I would question some of the roads round Star Lane but there is a low bridge in Hackney Wick. Sorry but you are wrong! double deckers can't go under the second bridge (This is 13"0) - A double decker came to grief way back in the 1990s when running on a North London Line rail replacement. Oh ok that makes sense. |
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Post by uakari on Apr 17, 2021 19:25:58 GMT
I find the 192 extremely stressful, packed and unreliable, especially with the clientele who share the ride from Tottenham Hale and the drivers who seem to have accidents more often than not. Whatever happened to the free shuttle bus Ikea is supposed to have? Clearly the Enfield end is more salubrious but also narrower, hence the small vehicles and crowding.
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Post by bus12451 on Apr 17, 2021 19:29:53 GMT
On what evidence, just observations. quote author=" bus12451 " source="/post/630454/thread" timestamp="1618675347"]124, 126, 162, 181, 244, 273, 284, 286, 380, 386, 484, B16 and P4 have capacity issues mostly during peak times. The 126 and B16 already see some DD workings throughout the day, and sometimes on the 286 too. As has been mentioned multiple times on this forum recently, the 286 should be upgraded to DD without a doubt. The 126 does not solely use DDs presumably because the 124, 161 and 261 run parallel to the 126 along certain parts of the route, which is adequate in TfL's eyes. The 484 is regularly overcrowded between Lewisham and Brockley, especially in the late afternoons/evenings, it uses 9.7m buses. Before the vehicle order for the 484 was announced, I was personally hoping it would get longer buses but it didn't. Other notable mentions are the 162, 273, 386 and P4. I don't think the P4's frequency is sufficient as it is usually overcrowded from both ends of the route. The 162, 386 and 273 use 8.9m buses and run at every 15, 15 and 20 minutes Mon-Sat respectively. I feel that these routes deserve frequency increases at the very least, as well as higher capacity buses where possible (386 and 484 should be able to take up to 10.2m). The 244 was planned to be converted to DD alongside the 178 and 291 as part of the Elizabeth Line SE London bus changes but that did not go ahead unfortunately. It would have not only benefitted this route but also the 380 in the Thamesmead West area. Looking back at the 178 and 291 DD conversions, their usage figures ever since then have meant that these two routes could never go back to their previous SD allocation. Not sure if much can be done about the 124, 181 and 284 apart from making adjustments to other routes and maybe slight frequency increases on the 181 and 284. Well in that case, everything in this thread is an observation... How do you know if a route has capacity issues if you don't see it? [/quote] |
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Post by redexpress on Apr 17, 2021 20:29:36 GMT
The 484 is regularly overcrowded between Lewisham and Brockley, especially in the late afternoons/evenings, it uses 9.7m buses. Before the vehicle order for the 484 was announced, I was personally hoping it would get longer buses but it didn't. Other notable mentions are the 162, 273, 386 and P4. I don't think the P4's frequency is sufficient as it is usually overcrowded from both ends of the route. The 162, 386 and 273 use 8.9m buses and run at every 15, 15 and 20 minutes Mon-Sat respectively. I feel that these routes deserve frequency increases at the very least, as well as higher capacity buses where possible (386 and 484 should be able to take up to 10.2m).
484 was meant to get 10.1m Darts (cascaded from 345) for its 2001 contract but these failed a route test, so it got new 9.4m buses instead.
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