Single deck routes with capacity issues

[VMH2537]

Which routes in London has capacity issues with current single decks used?

[Deleted]

D6 Possibly before Covid?

With single deckers buses might seem busy simply for the fact they are naturally limited on space but do have seats available on most occasions.

[​galwhv69]

170,493

[elcesteem16]

R9 can have at times but generally hit and miss in off peak times. The 181 could do with deckers but lower sydenham prevents this.

[LK65EBO]

235

[​galwhv69]

No idea how I forgot this but 355!

[Deleted]

251 at school times and through the peaks

[Trafalgax]

I’m gonna go with 276.

[cl54]

386 - 3 large comprehensives and a 6th floor college on the route plus lots of busy solo sections.

Only a 15 minute frequency (20 on evenings and Sundays).

[Eastlondoner62]

Apr 17, 2021 15:40:59 GMT cl54 said:

386 - 3 large comprehensives and a 6th floor college on the route plus lots of busy solo sections.

Only a 15 minute frequency (20 on evenings and Sundays).

How many of these schools don't have another bus?

Warren Comprehensive in Chadwell Heath for example has the once every 35 minute single decker 362, but the every 10 minute double decker 62 means there's no need to actually increase the 362 as a result.

[bus12451]

124, 126, 162, 181, 244, 273, 284, 286, 380, 386, 484, B16 and P4 have capacity issues mostly during peak times. The 126 and B16 already see some DD workings throughout the day, and sometimes on the 286 too. 

As has been mentioned multiple times on this forum recently, the 286 should be upgraded to DD without a doubt. The 126 does not solely use DDs presumably because the 124, 161 and 261 run parallel to the 126 along certain parts of the route, which is adequate in TfL's eyes. 

The 484 is regularly overcrowded between Lewisham and Brockley, especially in the late afternoons/evenings, it uses 9.7m buses. Before the vehicle order for the 484 was announced, I was personally hoping it would get longer buses but it didn't. Other notable mentions are the 162, 273, 386 and P4. I don't think the P4's frequency is sufficient as it is usually overcrowded from both ends of the route. The 162, 386 and 273 use 8.9m buses and run at every 15, 15 and 20 minutes Mon-Sat respectively. I feel that these routes deserve frequency increases at the very least, as well as higher capacity buses where possible (386 and 484 should be able to take up to 10.2m).

The 244 was planned to be converted to DD alongside the 178 and 291 as part of the Elizabeth Line SE London bus changes but that did not go ahead unfortunately. It would have not only benefitted this route but also the 380 in the Thamesmead West area. Looking back at the 178 and 291 DD conversions, their usage figures ever since then have meant that these two routes could never go back to their previous SD allocation. 

Not sure if much can be done about the 124, 181 and 284 apart from making adjustments to other routes and maybe slight frequency increases on the 181 and 284.

[wirewiper]

Apr 17, 2021 14:57:55 GMT Trafalgax said:

I’m gonna go with 276.

And yet it only runs every 12 minutes? That suggests to me that any capacity issues occur at specific times/locations rather than being continual. The same is probably true for a number of routes that will be cited in this thread. 

[Eastlondoner62]

Apr 17, 2021 16:16:14 GMT wirewiper said:

Apr 17, 2021 14:57:55 GMT Trafalgax said:

I’m gonna go with 276.

And yet it only runs every 12 minutes? That suggests to me that any capacity issues occur at specific times/locations rather than being continual. The same is probably true for a number of routes that will be cited in this thread. 

I think the 276 isn't an issue like this, but a slightly different issue where the crowds are isolated to specific parts of the route. The section between Newham Hospital and Canning Town doesn't tend to be extremely loaded, but between Canning Town and Stratford it's a total carnage before becoming quiet once again throughout the Bow and Hackney Wick area heading towards Homerton and Hackney. Then around the Dalston area it tends to get a bit busy, but not totally unbearable.

As a result an every 12 frequency is perfect for an extremely large portion of the route north of Stratford and between Newham Hospital and Canning Town, while the section between Canning Town and Stratford is where the route's capacity is woefully inadequate. The issue being here that you can't deck the route in any way due to the low bridge by West Ham Station, and any frequency increase would over-bus the rest of the route. The obvious answer here would be to introduce a few shorts between Stratford and Newham Hospital but TfL don't usually seem to be a fan of those for some reason. It's quite the sight seeing the 276s loading up at Stratford heading to West Ham.

[twobellstogo]

Apr 17, 2021 15:55:56 GMT Eastlondoner62 said:

Apr 17, 2021 15:40:59 GMT cl54 said:

386 - 3 large comprehensives and a 6th floor college on the route plus lots of busy solo sections.

Only a 15 minute frequency (20 on evenings and Sundays).

How many of these schools don't have another bus?

Shooters Hill 6th form : 386 closest bus but 122 also nearby and not far from 89, 161, 244, 486.

Greenwich Free School : 89, 161, 244, 486 pass the door. 122 close by. Pushing it to say 386 is most useful bus for this school.

Halley : 386 only bus to pass the door, but 89, 178 are very near and 161, 244, 486 easy walking distance.

John Roan : would concede that 386 is probably more convenient than anything else. 53, 54, 202 close by though, as are the routes on the A206 such as the 177, but the walk to school from the A206 routes is difficult.

[DT 11]

Apr 17, 2021 16:02:27 GMT bus12451 said:

124, 126, 162, 181, 244, 273, 284, 286, 380, 386, 484, B16 and P4 have capacity issues mostly during peak times. The 126 and B16 already see some DD workings throughout the day, and sometimes on the 286 too. 

As has been mentioned multiple times on this forum recently, the 286 should be upgraded to DD without a doubt. The 126 does not solely use DDs presumably because the 124, 161 and 261 run parallel to the 126 along certain parts of the route, which is adequate in TfL's eyes. 

The 484 is regularly overcrowded between Lewisham and Brockley, especially in the late afternoons/evenings, it uses 9.7m buses. Before the vehicle order for the 484 was announced, I was personally hoping it would get longer buses but it didn't. Other notable mentions are the 162, 273, 386 and P4. I don't think the P4's frequency is sufficient as it is usually overcrowded from both ends of the route. The 162, 386 and 273 use 8.9m buses and run at every 15, 15 and 20 minutes Mon-Sat respectively. I feel that these routes deserve frequency increases at the very least, as well as higher capacity buses where possible (386 and 484 should be able to take up to 10.2m).

The 244 was planned to be converted to DD alongside the 178 and 291 as part of the Elizabeth Line SE London bus changes but that did not go ahead unfortunately. It would have not only benefitted this route but also the 380 in the Thamesmead West area. Looking back at the 178 and 291 DD conversions, their usage figures ever since then have meant that these two routes could never go back to their previous SD allocation. 

Not sure if much can be done about the 124, 181 and 284 apart from making adjustments to other routes and maybe slight frequency increases on the 181 and 284.

I made a similar list a few weeks ago in relation to South East London here it is.

108 124 126 162 181 227 233 244 284 286 314 336 358 380 386 450 469 484 B16 P4 P12 all have capacity issues during peak times.

In fact I was near the P4 yesterday and a bus had driven past and had 14 people already on at Loughborough Junction, when I drove through Dulwich Village people were waiting for another P4 as that same P4 drove past them.