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Post by ADH45258 on Apr 18, 2021 10:45:59 GMT
Forgot about the low bridge by Bow garage, though this is close to the Hackney Wick example. The railway bridge at West Ham Station is listed as 14'9 (4.5m). An Envrio 400 for example is about 4.3m, so would fit (unless more clearance is needed for regular use). As has been stated above by others, there is two bridges on Manor Road - the one at West Ham Station is indeed high enough but the one carrying the Greenway path over the road is 13'0" and is not high enough even for low height double deckers. The only solution for the 276 would be to increase it's frequency as re-routing it away would probably only lengthen the route and more likely create problems especially if your extending another busy single deck routes like the 236. I previously suggested rerouting the 108 to serve Canning Town (for better interchange for journeys via the Blackwall tunnel), which would provide extra capacity along this busier section via West Ham Station. Or an alternative option could be to reduce the current 276 to operate from Newham Hospital to Hackney Wick (routeing unchanged), continuing to terminate at either Here East or Homerton Hospital depending on stand space. Then introduce a new route alongside, which could use DDs, from Stoke Newington to Canning Town Station. This would go via the 276 to Eastway, the 388 to Stratford City, 241 to Plaistow Station, then Upper Road, Grange Road, Gainsborough Road and Manor Road. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 11:06:44 GMT
As has been stated above by others, there is two bridges on Manor Road - the one at West Ham Station is indeed high enough but the one carrying the Greenway path over the road is 13'0" and is not high enough even for low height double deckers. The only solution for the 276 would be to increase it's frequency as re-routing it away would probably only lengthen the route and more likely create problems especially if your extending another busy single deck routes like the 236. I previously suggested rerouting the 108 to serve Canning Town (for better interchange for journeys via the Blackwall tunnel), which would provide extra capacity along this busier section via West Ham Station. Or an alternative option could be to reduce the current 276 to operate from Newham Hospital to Hackney Wick (routeing unchanged), continuing to terminate at either Here East or Homerton Hospital depending on stand space. Then introduce a new route alongside, which could use DDs, from Stoke Newington to Canning Town Station. This would go via the 276 to Eastway, the 388 to Stratford City, 241 to Plaistow Station, then Upper Road, Grange Road, Gainsborough Road and Manor Road. Or how about we leave the 276 as it is? Why tinker for the sake of it. Doubt you could run buses via Gainsborough Road! Think buses might have run on diversion here but doubt it would be a good idea for a regular bus service. |
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Post by M1104 on Apr 18, 2021 11:10:28 GMT
Which routes in London has capacity issues with current single decks used? 152, particularly the Colliers Wood to Pollards Hill section that's more residential heavy. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Apr 18, 2021 11:31:05 GMT
As has been stated above by others, there is two bridges on Manor Road - the one at West Ham Station is indeed high enough but the one carrying the Greenway path over the road is 13'0" and is not high enough even for low height double deckers. The only solution for the 276 would be to increase it's frequency as re-routing it away would probably only lengthen the route and more likely create problems especially if your extending another busy single deck routes like the 236. I previously suggested rerouting the 108 to serve Canning Town (for better interchange for journeys via the Blackwall tunnel), which would provide extra capacity along this busier section via West Ham Station. Or an alternative option could be to reduce the current 276 to operate from Newham Hospital to Hackney Wick (routeing unchanged), continuing to terminate at either Here East or Homerton Hospital depending on stand space. Then introduce a new route alongside, which could use DDs, from Stoke Newington to Canning Town Station. This would go via the 276 to Eastway, the 388 to Stratford City, 241 to Plaistow Station, then Upper Road, Grange Road, Gainsborough Road and Manor Road. Rerouting the 108 from Blackwall Tunnel northbound via Canning Town is an interesting idea but would parallel the Jubilee line between North Greenwich and Canning Town/West Ham which TfL would be keen to avoid. What would happen to the northern section of route 108? |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 18, 2021 11:55:57 GMT
As has been stated above by others, there is two bridges on Manor Road - the one at West Ham Station is indeed high enough but the one carrying the Greenway path over the road is 13'0" and is not high enough even for low height double deckers. The only solution for the 276 would be to increase it's frequency as re-routing it away would probably only lengthen the route and more likely create problems especially if your extending another busy single deck routes like the 236. I previously suggested rerouting the 108 to serve Canning Town (for better interchange for journeys via the Blackwall tunnel), which would provide extra capacity along this busier section via West Ham Station. Or an alternative option could be to reduce the current 276 to operate from Newham Hospital to Hackney Wick (routeing unchanged), continuing to terminate at either Here East or Homerton Hospital depending on stand space. Then introduce a new route alongside, which could use DDs, from Stoke Newington to Canning Town Station. This would go via the 276 to Eastway, the 388 to Stratford City, 241 to Plaistow Station, then Upper Road, Grange Road, Gainsborough Road and Manor Road. A number of local & non locals have already explained the issues behind your 108 proposal - increase of journey time of a route that the serves Blackwall Tunnel is hardly a great look for current passengers and the frequency is overkill for the Abbey Road area. The fact that 108’s can be easily delayed because of the tunnel is hardly an advantage to relieving the 276 - the cheapest & easiest way to do so would be to increase the 276 to at least every 10 minutes |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 18, 2021 12:01:36 GMT
I previously suggested rerouting the 108 to serve Canning Town (for better interchange for journeys via the Blackwall tunnel), which would provide extra capacity along this busier section via West Ham Station. Or an alternative option could be to reduce the current 276 to operate from Newham Hospital to Hackney Wick (routeing unchanged), continuing to terminate at either Here East or Homerton Hospital depending on stand space. Then introduce a new route alongside, which could use DDs, from Stoke Newington to Canning Town Station. This would go via the 276 to Eastway, the 388 to Stratford City, 241 to Plaistow Station, then Upper Road, Grange Road, Gainsborough Road and Manor Road. A number of local & non locals have already explained the issues behind your 108 proposal - increase of journey time of a route that the serves Blackwall Tunnel is hardly a great look for current passengers and the frequency is overkill for the Abbey Road area. The fact that 108’s can be easily delayed because of the tunnel is hardly an advantage to relieving the 276 - the cheapest & easiest way to do so would be to increase the 276 to at least every 10 minutes Totally agree but even at every 10 minutes I heard it ran at 125% of its capacity so I would be one to say it should be upped to every 8 minutes. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 12:14:32 GMT
As has been stated above by others, there is two bridges on Manor Road - the one at West Ham Station is indeed high enough but the one carrying the Greenway path over the road is 13'0" and is not high enough even for low height double deckers. The only solution for the 276 would be to increase it's frequency as re-routing it away would probably only lengthen the route and more likely create problems especially if your extending another busy single deck routes like the 236. I previously suggested rerouting the 108 to serve Canning Town (for better interchange for journeys via the Blackwall tunnel), which would provide extra capacity along this busier section via West Ham Station. Or an alternative option could be to reduce the current 276 to operate from Newham Hospital to Hackney Wick (routeing unchanged), continuing to terminate at either Here East or Homerton Hospital depending on stand space. Then introduce a new route alongside, which could use DDs, from Stoke Newington to Canning Town Station. This would go via the 276 to Eastway, the 388 to Stratford City, 241 to Plaistow Station, then Upper Road, Grange Road, Gainsborough Road and Manor Road. You would over bus Stratford to Plaistow Station as this already has the 69,241,262 and 473. You would also over bus Upper Road as the 69 manages fine.
I really can't see the demand for a Canning Town to Stoke Newington route - The more I think it just seems so messy compared to what we have now.
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Post by enviroPB on Apr 18, 2021 12:22:09 GMT
I don't know why people think the 276's frequency is every 12 minutes, it's every 10 minutes. And it's unfortunate that the route cannot take deckers as the links it provides are lucrative for passengers. Even with the 425 at every 8 minutes in the Homerton area, the 276 is not carrying fresh air round there.
I guess TfL don't want to increase its frequency directly as that's a slippery slope to having the 276 become too regular. West of Stratford an increase of all times may be welcomed and demand actually calls for it personally. The other half of the route in Newham would see overkill and won't be a good use of resources, granted Barking Road routes and the 262/473 provide adequate replacements for the 276.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 18, 2021 13:11:38 GMT
I don't know why people think the 276's frequency is every 12 minutes, it's every 10 minutes. And it's unfortunate that the route cannot take deckers as the links it provides are lucrative for passengers. Even with the 425 at every 8 minutes in the Homerton area, the 276 is not carrying fresh air round there. I guess TfL don't want to increase its frequency directly as that's a slippery slope to having the 276 become too regular. West of Stratford an increase of all times may be welcomed and demand actually calls for it personally. The other half of the route in Newham would see overkill and won't be a good use of resources, granted Barking Road routes and the 262/473 provide adequate replacements for the 276. The 425 is very badly set up compared to the 276 imo, the 425 avoids town centres or real areas of high residence whereas the 276 goes to them more if you get what I mean. For example, the 276 goes to Hackney & Stoke Newington which are more high residence and recreational and leisure-orientated than say South Hackney. I think the 425 was a very good addition to the network back in 2008 because it supported the 25 & 277 whilst sporting new links to Homerton Hospital & Stratford, but it doesn't really go to places like that of Hackney. The 276 also serves areas such as Old Ford, Hackney Wick & Kingsmead Estate which are highly residential, so the 276 would get very busy going through those areas. To me, I actually prefer the current 276 routing to the pre Olympic days.
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Post by TB123 on Apr 18, 2021 13:20:46 GMT
I don't know why people think the 276's frequency is every 12 minutes, it's every 10 minutes. And it's unfortunate that the route cannot take deckers as the links it provides are lucrative for passengers. Even with the 425 at every 8 minutes in the Homerton area, the 276 is not carrying fresh air round there. I guess TfL don't want to increase its frequency directly as that's a slippery slope to having the 276 become too regular. West of Stratford an increase of all times may be welcomed and demand actually calls for it personally. The other half of the route in Newham would see overkill and won't be a good use of resources, granted Barking Road routes and the 262/473 provide adequate replacements for the 276. 425 is every 10. 276 only has brief periods of a 10/11 headway |
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Post by enviroPB on Apr 18, 2021 13:27:57 GMT
I don't know why people think the 276's frequency is every 12 minutes, it's every 10 minutes. And it's unfortunate that the route cannot take deckers as the links it provides are lucrative for passengers. Even with the 425 at every 8 minutes in the Homerton area, the 276 is not carrying fresh air round there. I guess TfL don't want to increase its frequency directly as that's a slippery slope to having the 276 become too regular. West of Stratford an increase of all times may be welcomed and demand actually calls for it personally. The other half of the route in Newham would see overkill and won't be a good use of resources, granted Barking Road routes and the 262/473 provide adequate replacements for the 276. The 425 is very badly set up compared to the 276 imo, the 425 avoids town centres or real areas of high residence whereas the 276 goes to them more if you get what I mean. For example, the 276 goes to Hackney & Stoke Newington which are more high residence and recreational and leisure-orientated than say South Hackney. I think the 425 was a very good addition to the network back in 2008 because it supported the 25 & 277 whilst sporting new links to Homerton Hospital & Stratford, but it doesn't really go to places like that of Hackney. The 276 also serves areas such as Old Ford, Hackney Wick & Kingsmead Estate which are highly residential, so the 276 would get very busy going through those areas. To me, I actually prefer the current 276 routing to the pre Olympic days.
I completely ditto the sentiment towards your last sentence. I think the reroute through Bow has added patronage and greatly added links to the Old Ford area in particular, giving a daily link to Stratford after the S2 was withdrawn. I have used this route in Hackney and Homerton regularly a couple years ago and from the first bus to the last, the 276 remains extremely busy. I believe it's also due to serving high density areas and providing useful links from the routing it traverses. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 18, 2021 13:30:47 GMT
The 425 is very badly set up compared to the 276 imo, the 425 avoids town centres or real areas of high residence whereas the 276 goes to them more if you get what I mean. For example, the 276 goes to Hackney & Stoke Newington which are more high residence and recreational and leisure-orientated than say South Hackney. I think the 425 was a very good addition to the network back in 2008 because it supported the 25 & 277 whilst sporting new links to Homerton Hospital & Stratford, but it doesn't really go to places like that of Hackney. The 276 also serves areas such as Old Ford, Hackney Wick & Kingsmead Estate which are highly residential, so the 276 would get very busy going through those areas. To me, I actually prefer the current 276 routing to the pre Olympic days.
I completely ditto the sentiment towards your last sentence. I think the reroute through Bow has added patronage and greatly added links to the Old Ford area in particular, giving a daily link to Stratford after the S2 was withdrawn. I have used this route in Hackney and Homerton regularly a couple years ago and from the first bus to the last, the 276 remains extremely busy. I believe it's also due to serving high density areas and providing useful links from the routing it traverses. A part of me wonders whether the 425 should be rerouted to run through Hackney Central after Homerton Hospital via the 276 route before then following the other routes through to Clapton. Although this would add a lot of time to the route due to the extreme traffic in the area, which the 425 currently avoids because it goes around Hackney Central. Also from a selfish point of view it'd be nice having a link to this part of East London that's not the 276  |
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Post by evergreenadam on Apr 18, 2021 13:44:54 GMT
I don’t understand why route 276 does not serve Canning Town Station. Surely that is a major traffic objective?
Or is it to avoid swamping the single deckers on Barking Road with short distance trips to Canning Town Station that could be accommodated on double deck routes?
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 18, 2021 13:58:04 GMT
The 425 is very badly set up compared to the 276 imo, the 425 avoids town centres or real areas of high residence whereas the 276 goes to them more if you get what I mean. For example, the 276 goes to Hackney & Stoke Newington which are more high residence and recreational and leisure-orientated than say South Hackney. I think the 425 was a very good addition to the network back in 2008 because it supported the 25 & 277 whilst sporting new links to Homerton Hospital & Stratford, but it doesn't really go to places like that of Hackney. The 276 also serves areas such as Old Ford, Hackney Wick & Kingsmead Estate which are highly residential, so the 276 would get very busy going through those areas. To me, I actually prefer the current 276 routing to the pre Olympic days.
I completely ditto the sentiment towards your last sentence. I think the reroute through Bow has added patronage and greatly added links to the Old Ford area in particular, giving a daily link to Stratford after the S2 was withdrawn. I have used this route in Hackney and Homerton regularly a couple years ago and from the first bus to the last, the 276 remains extremely busy. I believe it's also due to serving high density areas and providing useful links from the routing it traverses. I think you may have read my post wrong, I prefer the current routing through Bow is better than when it went thru Waterden Road! |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 18, 2021 14:33:13 GMT
I don’t understand why route 276 does not serve Canning Town Station. Surely that is a major traffic objective? Or is it to avoid swamping the single deckers on Barking Road with short distance trips to Canning Town Station that could be accommodated on double deck routes? I think it's to avoid the traffic, the bus would effectively need to run back on itself down Barking Road again to get to Ordnance Road, when if someone desperately wanted Canning Town Bus Station from the West Ham area, they'd probably be able to change over for a 323 along Manor Road |
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