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Post by enviroPB on Sept 12, 2021 9:04:19 GMT
Did a quick calculation to see what routes carry the most amount of people per mile. These are the routes that are the most susceptible to overcrowd as on average a large amount of people board buses at each stop. 1.330: 4.3 2. 238: 4.2 3. 69: 3.91 4. 104: 3.90 5. 58: 3.8 6. 41: 3.76 7. 149: 3.74 8. 109: 3.71 9. 29: 3.46 10. 279: 3.4 The 238 used to have the most people per mile and now that's moved onto the 330, not that surprising. In fact, every double decker route serving Green Street is in the top 10. Yet still TfL a couple years ago cancelled a planned frequency increase for the 58. Shouldn't this supposed investment in outer London suburbs be applied in this case? I can't wait for TfL to bulldoze through the South Newham changes. Clearly people left the 366 in droves during the last year for it to be the 10th busiest single decker, during a pandemic no less.  |
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Post by enviroPB on Sept 12, 2021 9:19:15 GMT
I would say that the ridiculous frequency reduction on the N9 shows the folly of relying on data. Good point. To be honest I think a good mix of observations & data are needed. I definitely remember passenger complaints had something to do with the 136 extension & the addition of the 168 down the Old Kent Road, I think the N15s frequency was increased at one point just down to drivers observations? Pretty sure in both of those instances, it took literal years of complaints and badgering before anyone acted. I knew about the north Peckham fiasco as it made many regular features on reigonal news. From summer of 2012 when I was of age to be mingling at night, the N15 was always packed, unreliable and was a lottery if you got on. Olympic funds saw the frequency increase to x10 mins which helped matters for a few years. Then as the route got reliable, so it started to be oversubscribed from both out-of-town and into town journeys. A bit of back and forth with x8 min frequencies and Night Tube then saw it settle back down to 6 buses per hour. TfL has the data to see if a route is under capacity and indeed acted rather quickly for the Shoreditch night routes when the traffic conditions were deplorable. I'm sure for the N15 as for the 136/343, it was speaking to the right people (politicians) for the right amount of time to get change. |
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Post by WH241 on Sept 12, 2021 9:24:09 GMT
Did a quick calculation to see what routes carry the most amount of people per mile. These are the routes that are the most susceptible to overcrowd as on average a large amount of people board buses at each stop. 1.330: 4.3 2. 238: 4.2 3. 69: 3.91 4. 104: 3.90 5. 58: 3.8 6. 41: 3.76 7. 149: 3.74 8. 109: 3.71 9. 29: 3.46 10. 279: 3.4 The 238 used to have the most people per mile and now that's moved onto the 330, not that surprising. In fact, every double decker route serving Green Street is in the top 10. Yet still TfL a couple years ago cancelled a planned frequency increase for the 58. Shouldn't this supposed investment in outer London suburbs be applied in this case? I can't wait for TfL to bulldoze through the South Newham changes. Clearly people left the 366 in droves during the last year for it to be the 10th busiest single decker, during a pandemic no less. I really wish TfL would decide what its doing with the South Newham changes and the Elizabeth Line changes. Some of the changes will be fairly major such as the 300 switching direction along Prince Regent Lane so hopefully passengers get lots of publicity before the changes take place. |
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Post by enviroPB on Sept 12, 2021 9:34:05 GMT
The 238 used to have the most people per mile and now that's moved onto the 330, not that surprising. In fact, every double decker route serving Green Street is in the top 10. Yet still TfL a couple years ago cancelled a planned frequency increase for the 58. Shouldn't this supposed investment in outer London suburbs be applied in this case? I can't wait for TfL to bulldoze through the South Newham changes. Clearly people left the 366 in droves during the last year for it to be the 10th busiest single decker, during a pandemic no less. I really wish TfL would decide what its doing with the South Newham changes and the Elizabeth Line changes. Some of the changes will be fairly major such as the 300 switching direction along Prince Regent Lane so hopefully passengers get lots of publicity before the changes take place. They know ridership in South Newham is strong, they know bus services in that pocket of London are very reliable. They essentially don't want to make too much of an upset as they won't get away with it. Newham's Labour mayor will definitely have a word to say if it's anything as adverse as the original proposals. TfL don't want to bite the hand that feeds them, but the piggy bank is starving and the savings pig needs to eat. |
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Post by greenboy on Sept 12, 2021 9:42:27 GMT
I would say that the ridiculous frequency reduction on the N9 shows the folly of relying on data. Replying to my posts via other people again ha 
What else can they do if they don't use data? how else can you measure usage? You seem to be suggesting more people are using buses than the data suggests! must be lots of freeloaders then.
Honesty, how many times do I have to remind you that you asked me to ignore you, see attachment. I'll let others make their own mind up about who has a unhealthy interest in who! |
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Post by WH241 on Sept 12, 2021 10:08:49 GMT
Replying to my posts via other people again ha
What else can they do if they don't use data? how else can you measure usage? You seem to be suggesting more people are using buses than the data suggests! must be lots of freeloaders then.
Honesty, how many times do I have to remind you that you asked me to ignore you, see attachment. I'll let others make their own mind up about who has a unhealthy interest in who! Yes I did but now you just reply via other people which is just childish! |
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Post by BK15AZR on Sept 12, 2021 11:12:30 GMT
Least used day bus routes (not counting 456 or W10) 1. Route 399 : 4,507 2. Route 389 : 5,260 3. Route R10 : 8,858 4. Route H3 : 9,017 5. Route R5 : 9,462 6. Route 347 : 14,145 7. Route 385 : 16,196 8. Route 549 : 21,686 9. Route R8 : 22,966 10. Route 375 : 24,970 Least used routes with a PVR of at least 2: 1. Route 497 : 27,438 2. Route 467 : 52,874 3. Route 485 : 66,020 4. Route 404 : 72,018 5. Route 346 : 72,399 6. Route R2 : 75,872 7. Route 464 : 76,405 8. Route 209 : 87,887 9. Route 434 : 89,990 10. Route X68 : 92,379 209 is an amazing far cry from what it used go carry pre Bridge closure and covid. The 72 is another one much impacted by the Bridge closure - it used to be the busiest SD route two years ago (and was close to converting to DD) but now its patronage has now dropped to just few hundred thousand a year! |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 12, 2021 11:25:31 GMT
Did a quick calculation to see what routes carry the most amount of people per mile. These are the routes that are the most susceptible to overcrowd as on average a large amount of people board buses at each stop. 1.330: 4.3 2. 238: 4.2 3. 69: 3.91 4. 104: 3.90 5. 58: 3.8 6. 41: 3.76 7. 149: 3.74 8. 109: 3.71 9. 29: 3.46 10. 279: 3.4 The 238 used to have the most people per mile and now that's moved onto the 330, not that surprising. In fact, every double decker route serving Green Street is in the top 10. Yet still TfL a couple years ago cancelled a planned frequency increase for the 58. Shouldn't this supposed investment in outer London suburbs be applied in this case? I can't wait for TfL to bulldoze through the South Newham changes. Clearly people left the 366 in droves during the last year for it to be the 10th busiest single decker, during a pandemic no less. It was actually the W7 having the most per mile, the 238 would always make the top 5 though. Didn't realise the 366 had come up that much. I really do think that support should be provided through some of its sections. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 12, 2021 13:00:53 GMT
Picking out one more interesting stat from the data: Least used double deck routes (excluding any double deck routes that converted during the sample time): 1. Route 467 : 52,874 2. Route X68 : 92,379 3. Route 129 : 276,304 4. Route 412 : 296,005 5. Route 317 : 339,794 6. Route 423 : 379,048 7. Route 498 : 386,498 8. Route 335 : 426,852 9. Route 492 : 448,029 10. Route 406 : 461,973 To me, if ever a route screamed out ‘untapped potential’, it’s the 467. An extension beyond Hook towards Hinchley Wood (not just at school time) and Esher seems like a decent idea to me. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Sept 12, 2021 13:47:13 GMT
The 238 used to have the most people per mile and now that's moved onto the 330, not that surprising. In fact, every double decker route serving Green Street is in the top 10. Yet still TfL a couple years ago cancelled a planned frequency increase for the 58. Shouldn't this supposed investment in outer London suburbs be applied in this case? I can't wait for TfL to bulldoze through the South Newham changes. Clearly people left the 366 in droves during the last year for it to be the 10th busiest single decker, during a pandemic no less. It was actually the W7 having the most per mile, the 238 would always make the top 5 though. Didn't realise the 366 had come up that much. I really do think that support should be provided through some of its sections. Which sections of the 366 need support? |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 12, 2021 13:53:18 GMT
It was actually the W7 having the most per mile, the 238 would always make the top 5 though. Didn't realise the 366 had come up that much. I really do think that support should be provided through some of its sections. Which sections of the 366 need support? Barking to Beckton is certainly one, another route through the back roads of Loxford would be very good too. |
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Post by Trafalgax on Sept 12, 2021 15:21:35 GMT
I reckon if 73 was still at Victoria, it would be in the top 10 (top 15 at the most) and although 390’s usage went up by a bit when it got re routed, it’s still no where near as busy as 73 was back in the day. All this does is make me question TFLs decision making.
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Post by YX10FFN on Sept 12, 2021 16:44:55 GMT
Picking out one more interesting stat from the data: Least used double deck routes (excluding any double deck routes that converted during the sample time): 1. Route 467 : 52,874 2. Route X68 : 92,379 3. Route 129 : 276,304 4. Route 412 : 296,005 5. Route 317 : 339,794 6. Route 423 : 379,048 7. Route 498 : 386,498 8. Route 335 : 426,852 9. Route 492 : 448,029 10. Route 406 : 461,973 To me, if ever a route screamed out ‘untapped potential’, it’s the 467. An extension beyond Hook towards Hinchley Wood (not just at school time) and Esher seems like a decent idea to me. The one 467 trip I have done largely carried fresh air until Chessington. From other observations the route seems to be pretty dead outside school hours. Potential there to create a cross Inner Surrey link, Esher as you mentioned but perhaps Thames Ditton, Hampton Court, Molesey. It's a shame neither TFL nor Surrey are probably bothered. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 12, 2021 17:36:59 GMT
To me, if ever a route screamed out ‘untapped potential’, it’s the 467. An extension beyond Hook towards Hinchley Wood (not just at school time) and Esher seems like a decent idea to me. The one 467 trip I have done largely carried fresh air until Chessington. From other observations the route seems to be pretty dead outside school hours. Potential there to create a cross Inner Surrey link, Esher as you mentioned but perhaps Thames Ditton, Hampton Court, Molesey. It's a shame neither TFL nor Surrey are probably bothered. I actually get the feeling Surrey would be if enough money was there - they seem to be the only home county to show actual interest in retaining their funding for TfL routes beyond the border |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Sept 12, 2021 17:53:32 GMT
The one 467 trip I have done largely carried fresh air until Chessington. From other observations the route seems to be pretty dead outside school hours. Potential there to create a cross Inner Surrey link, Esher as you mentioned but perhaps Thames Ditton, Hampton Court, Molesey. It's a shame neither TFL nor Surrey are probably bothered. I actually get the feeling Surrey would be if enough money was there - they seem to be the only home county to show actual interest in retaining their funding for TfL routes beyond the border They definitely have the most cross-border services: 116 117 166 203 216 235 290 293 403 404 405 406 407 411 418 434 439 (in due course) 464 465 466 467 470 (soon to be S2) K3 S1 Currently 24 bus routes including route 685, will increase to 25 with the 439/S2 changes. |
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