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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 12, 2021 19:10:05 GMT
Not sure Surrey County Council though offer financial assistance to all those routes. I don't think the ones that cross for a short amount like the 404, 466, 470, S1 do.
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Sept 12, 2021 19:20:13 GMT
Not sure Surrey County Council though offer financial assistance to all those routes. I don't think the ones that cross for a short amount like the 404, 466, 470, S1 do. I understand about the Caterham-on-the-Hill routes but the 470 and S1 exit London for a long while. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 12, 2021 19:30:32 GMT
Not sure Surrey County Council though offer financial assistance to all those routes. I don't think the ones that cross for a short amount like the 404, 466, 470, S1 do. I understand about the Caterham-on-the-Hill routes but the 470 and S1 exit London for a long while. S1 is barely 5 mins from Highdown Lane to Banstead. |
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Post by TB123 on Sept 12, 2021 19:31:23 GMT
Not sure Surrey County Council though offer financial assistance to all those routes. I don't think the ones that cross for a short amount like the 404, 466, 470, S1 do. I understand about the Caterham-on-the-Hill routes but the 470 and S1 exit London for a long while. The S1 exits London for a little over a mile and a half. I'd hardly call that a 'long while'! The 470 only spends about 3 miles of it's 12 mile length outside of London too. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 12, 2021 19:46:33 GMT
Not sure Surrey County Council though offer financial assistance to all those routes. I don't think the ones that cross for a short amount like the 404, 466, 470, S1 do. I would imagine there's a few that effectively fund themselves and maybe even turn a profit which means TfL are probably happy for them to run without any assistance as TfL are better off them running than not running as they'd actually lose money, routes like the 96, 370, 372 and probably even the 81 to name a few. I'd take a punt and say that the 166 and 405 might be such routes for Surrey, the 166 even warrants extras sometimes. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 12, 2021 20:09:52 GMT
Not sure Surrey County Council though offer financial assistance to all those routes. I don't think the ones that cross for a short amount like the 404, 466, 470, S1 do. I would imagine there's a few that effectively fund themselves and maybe even turn a profit which means TfL are probably happy for them to run without any assistance as TfL are better off them running than not running as they'd actually lose money, routes like the 96, 370, 372 and probably even the 81 to name a few. I'd take a punt and say that the 166 and 405 might be such routes for Surrey, the 166 even warrants extras sometimes. I'd agree though in the case of the 166, the Epsom journeys are certainly funded by Surrey as there was talk that they would be cut completely at the last contract renewal but thankfully, that didn't happen though it would of been nice (but expecting too much) for the Epsom journeys to go half hourly given they are quite popular. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 16, 2021 7:25:32 GMT
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Post by evergreenadam on Sept 17, 2021 17:33:40 GMT
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Post by YX10FFN on Sept 17, 2021 18:17:16 GMT
Would've though the (N)365 would be the least used 24 hour route. Kingston is a huge market for night traffic but I guess this is to do with the fact that the 213's busiest section, Kingston-New Malden, is roughly mirrored by the N87. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Sept 17, 2021 18:24:44 GMT
Would've though the (N)365 would be the least used 24 hour route. Kingston is a huge market for night traffic but I guess this is to do with the fact that the 213's busiest section, Kingston-New Malden, is roughly mirrored by the N87. It will likely be down to the long term closure of nightclubs and other night life in Kingston which normally drives numbers on the N213. Kingston really is the only decent nightlife in this part of London, Croydons a dive, Sutton has no nightclubs and Wimbledon hasn’t been the same late night since Po Na Na closed a few years back. |
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Post by YX10FFN on Sept 17, 2021 18:28:43 GMT
Would've though the (N)365 would be the least used 24 hour route. Kingston is a huge market for night traffic but I guess this is to do with the fact that the 213's busiest section, Kingston-New Malden, is roughly mirrored by the N87. It will likely be down to the long term closure of nightclubs and other night life in Kingston which normally drives numbers on the N213. Kingston really is the only decent nightlife in this part of London, Croydons a dive, Sutton has no nightclubs and Wimbledon hasn’t been the same late night since Po Na Na closed a few years back. Every time I've been in Kingston at night N65s and (N)281s go past packed with few seats free. Your average non-descript 24 hour routes are heaving because of the abundance of nightlife there Although I would add that as you mention suburban nightlife hasn't really kicked off as much as Central nightlife this summer, and Viper Rooms did close which was a very popular club in Kingston (I say good riddance, dreadful club) |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 17, 2021 18:42:27 GMT
It will likely be down to the long term closure of nightclubs and other night life in Kingston which normally drives numbers on the N213. Kingston really is the only decent nightlife in this part of London, Croydons a dive, Sutton has no nightclubs and Wimbledon hasn’t been the same late night since Po Na Na closed a few years back. Every time I've been in Kingston at night N65s and (N)281s go past packed with few seats free. Your average non-descript 24 hour routes are heaving because of the abundance of nightlife there Although I would add that as you mention suburban nightlife hasn't really kicked off as much as Central nightlife this summer, and Viper Rooms did close which was a very popular club in Kingston (I say good riddance, dreadful club) The N65 is every 30 minutes, a full bus every 30 minutes doesn't necessarily mean that the route is extremely well used. For example the N15s being not even half empty will end up carrying more passengers over the same half an hour period than that single full N65 will. |
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Post by YX10FFN on Sept 17, 2021 18:53:40 GMT
Every time I've been in Kingston at night N65s and (N)281s go past packed with few seats free. Your average non-descript 24 hour routes are heaving because of the abundance of nightlife there Although I would add that as you mention suburban nightlife hasn't really kicked off as much as Central nightlife this summer, and Viper Rooms did close which was a very popular club in Kingston (I say good riddance, dreadful club) The N65 is every 30 minutes, a full bus every 30 minutes doesn't necessarily mean that the route is extremely well used. For example the N15s being not even half empty will end up carrying more passengers over the same half an hour period than that single full N65 will. Yeah that's a good point, I was interested to compare the N65 with other non-Central night routes, and the N83, another half hour night route, has well over double the ridership, which I'm sure speaks to sustained demand across the route instead of off and on like the N65, not much nightlife in Richmond, Brentford or certainly places like Surbiton and Hook |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 17, 2021 19:08:25 GMT
The N65 is every 30 minutes, a full bus every 30 minutes doesn't necessarily mean that the route is extremely well used. For example the N15s being not even half empty will end up carrying more passengers over the same half an hour period than that single full N65 will. Yeah that's a good point, I was interested to compare the N65 with other non-Central night routes, and the N83, another half hour night route, has well over double the ridership, which I'm sure speaks to sustained demand across the route instead of off and on like the N65, not much nightlife in Richmond, Brentford or certainly places like Surbiton and Hook This did make me investigate what the highest Pax/Mile is on night routes N279 N238 N69 N109 N18 N35 N149 N243 N250 N140 Interestingly the 238 seems to be up there again, quite easy to tell which route probably needs frequency increases in both the day and the night  |
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Post by WH241 on Sept 17, 2021 19:22:27 GMT
Yeah that's a good point, I was interested to compare the N65 with other non-Central night routes, and the N83, another half hour night route, has well over double the ridership, which I'm sure speaks to sustained demand across the route instead of off and on like the N65, not much nightlife in Richmond, Brentford or certainly places like Surbiton and Hook This did make me investigate what the highest Pax/Mile is on night routes N279 N238 N69 N109 N18 N35 N149 N243 N250 N140 Interestingly the 238 seems to be up there again, quite easy to tell which route probably needs frequency increases in both the day and the night Surprised the N69 made the list I was half expecting this to be lightly used as other similar routes back in the early 00s weren't very successful (N58, N101) but then again the N69 serves major stations such as Stratford and Canning Town. |
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