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Post by greenboy on Oct 3, 2021 12:30:03 GMT
It's not my intention to twist anything, I mentioned Sarah not you. For me this is the latest thing that the media are using to scaremonger, if you think otherwise that's fine. Obviously questions need to be asked but that's not the same thing as blatant scaremongering and trying to undermine public confidence. Anyway getting back to petrol, the problem seems far worse in the south east. Sarah Everard's murder was horrific and my condolences. But if we think about the media could've kept a bit more quiet about these things and fuelling public anger, then we could have avoided fuel crisis and so many protests, for example I support BLM in the way that we are all equal and that all lives matter whether white, black, brown, Asian or blue with red spots but whilst thankfully the UK we avoided much of the chaos, what we saw in the USA was chaotic, shocking and don't want to sound rude or anything but in some cases unacceptable and not peaceful. If a protest is small calm and orderly I don't mind but huge disruption vandalising stores, burning cars, forcing white people to knee. If the media didn't constantly say about not enough food in the pandemic the hard working nurses could've had dinner. I honestly do think that if the media can just be a bit quieter we could avoid so many problems... Absolutely and I've got daughters and I'd be as concerned about the safety of women as anybody else but clearly the media are trying to undermine the Metropolitan police and they won't be happy until they've hounded out Cressida D. The 'flag down a bus' advice is just basic common sense just as a shop or pub should be a place of safety for anyone who is in fear, obviously flagging down private cars is unwise as somebody could be putting themselves in a worse situation. Anyway I've managed to get petrol this morning with only a short queue, supermarket seemed to have plenty of food as well. |
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Post by dashing0ne on Oct 3, 2021 13:41:16 GMT
Sarah Everard's murder was horrific and my condolences. But if we think about the media could've kept a bit more quiet about these things and fuelling public anger, then we could have avoided fuel crisis and so many protests, for example I support BLM in the way that we are all equal and that all lives matter whether white, black, brown, Asian or blue with red spots but whilst thankfully the UK we avoided much of the chaos, what we saw in the USA was chaotic, shocking and don't want to sound rude or anything but in some cases unacceptable and not peaceful. If a protest is small calm and orderly I don't mind but huge disruption vandalising stores, burning cars, forcing white people to knee. If the media didn't constantly say about not enough food in the pandemic the hard working nurses could've had dinner. I honestly do think that if the media can just be a bit quieter we could avoid so many problems... Problem is fear sells and it's been like this for years.
Journalists have been f**kwits for years to put it bluntly, Piers Morgan, John Sweeney etc. I also don't think shows like Loose Women (that show angers me!) also help that much.
You're spot on about BLM, I honestly can't stand them. Black lives matter and it's always been something I've thought, as an individual I've always tried to be inclusive and respect absolutely everyone no matter about their race. However I myself understand there is a problem with racism amongst other people and that it is adamant that we try and tackle these issues but not by damaging public property, some of which could perhaps belong to people who are not racist and who are in fact generally nice people. I think XR, Insulate Britain & BLM protests need tougher policing because it's absolutely ridiculous London being clogged up but also that it shows them that they can have a tantrum and suddenly they get given protest space and get their own way.
Yes the BLM protests were unacceptable. I don't exactly like Trump but him sending riot police to deal with BLM in worst hit areas was a good call. What I saw in America was just shocking and horrific. Some people honestly behaved like animals, people have been injured, cars burnt and most important mass theft and destruction of shops. Black people forcing white people to kneel is unacceptable. Hate Extinction Rebellion as well. Statue defacement is also unacceptable especially of people like Winston Churchill, they a hero's, yes they may have been racist but who wasn't in these times, I find it annoying when people judge people of first half of the 20th Century to to today's standards. Insulate Britain, Extinction Rebellion should be an immediate arrest and criminal prosecution, as they are getting ridiculous, have had warnings, are useless and cause mass disruption. Extinction Rebellion are hypocrites and don't even know what to do themselves! But I do try to be as much as possible to treat everyone equally by race. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 3, 2021 13:53:51 GMT
Problem is fear sells and it's been like this for years.
Journalists have been f**kwits for years to put it bluntly, Piers Morgan, John Sweeney etc. I also don't think shows like Loose Women (that show angers me!) also help that much.
You're spot on about BLM, I honestly can't stand them. Black lives matter and it's always been something I've thought, as an individual I've always tried to be inclusive and respect absolutely everyone no matter about their race. However I myself understand there is a problem with racism amongst other people and that it is adamant that we try and tackle these issues but not by damaging public property, some of which could perhaps belong to people who are not racist and who are in fact generally nice people. I think XR, Insulate Britain & BLM protests need tougher policing because it's absolutely ridiculous London being clogged up but also that it shows them that they can have a tantrum and suddenly they get given protest space and get their own way.
Yes the BLM protests were unacceptable. I don't exactly like Trump but him sending riot police to deal with BLM in worst hit areas was a good call. What I saw in America was just shocking and horrific. Some people honestly behaved like animals, people have been injured, cars burnt and most important mass theft and destruction of shops. Black people forcing white people to kneel is unacceptable. Hate Extinction Rebellion as well. Statue defacement is also unacceptable especially of people like Winston Churchill, they a hero's, yes they may have been racist but who wasn't in these times, I find it annoying when people judge people of first half of the 20th Century to to today's standards. Insulate Britain, Extinction Rebellion should be an immediate arrest and criminal prosecution, as they are getting ridiculous, have had warnings, are useless and cause mass disruption. Extinction Rebellion are hypocrites and don't even know what to do themselves! But I do try to be as much as possible to treat everyone equally by race. I don't think you should be defending Churchill's racist views. It's wrong to promote the fact that just because it was acceptable back then that they should still be regarded as amazing people. When new information comes to light about something you don't ignore it and hope for the best, you accept what the truth was. Churchill was no doubt racist and it's time people actually realised. Churchill was who got us through the war, the reason we can all type what we want here and have free access to computers is because of people like Churchill and that should obviously never be taken away from them, but we need to remember that they still had bad characteristics that are still unacceptable. I don't think you can compare BLM to the fools at Extinction Rebellion and Insulate Britain. All three were advocating for immediate change, but the BLM matter required immediate change. It was economically possible to start to launch investigations into the police and their handling of cases as soon as possible. It's not economically possible to make everything electric overnight, it is not economically possible to ban all planes from flying. It is possible to make change in a viewpoint and it is possible to prevent deaths because of personal racist views being prevented. While among the BLM protests there were a very small minority that made use of the crowds for personal gain, but the people there were protesting for a genuine cause, a cause that needed to be fixed as soon as possible and a cause that the government otherwise wouldn't have acted up against. Extinction Rebellion and insulate Britain are protesting against things the government is already well aware of and are making steps towards achieving. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 3, 2021 14:03:22 GMT
Yes the BLM protests were unacceptable. I don't exactly like Trump but him sending riot police to deal with BLM in worst hit areas was a good call. What I saw in America was just shocking and horrific. Some people honestly behaved like animals, people have been injured, cars burnt and most important mass theft and destruction of shops. Black people forcing white people to kneel is unacceptable. Hate Extinction Rebellion as well. Statue defacement is also unacceptable especially of people like Winston Churchill, they a hero's, yes they may have been racist but who wasn't in these times, I find it annoying when people judge people of first half of the 20th Century to to today's standards. Insulate Britain, Extinction Rebellion should be an immediate arrest and criminal prosecution, as they are getting ridiculous, have had warnings, are useless and cause mass disruption. Extinction Rebellion are hypocrites and don't even know what to do themselves! But I do try to be as much as possible to treat everyone equally by race. I don't think you should be defending Churchill's racist views. It's wrong to promote the fact that just because it was acceptable back then that they should still be regarded as amazing people. When new information comes to light about something you don't ignore it and hope for the best, you accept what the truth was. Churchill was no doubt racist and it's time people actually realised. Churchill was who got us through the war, the reason we can all type what we want here and have free access to computers is because of people like Churchill and that should obviously never be taken away from them, but we need to remember that they still had bad characteristics that are still unacceptable. I don't think you can compare BLM to the fools at Extinction Rebellion and Insulate Britain. All three were advocating for immediate change, but the BLM matter required immediate change. It was economically possible to start to launch investigations into the police and their handling of cases as soon as possible. It's not economically possible to make everything electric overnight, it is not economically possible to ban all planes from flying. It is possible to make change in a viewpoint and it is possible to prevent deaths because of personal racist views being prevented. While among the BLM protests there were a very small minority that made use of the crowds for personal gain, but the people there were protesting for a genuine cause, a cause that needed to be fixed as soon as possible and a cause that the government otherwise wouldn't have acted up against. Extinction Rebellion and insulate Britain are protesting against things the government is already well aware of and are making steps towards achieving. I'd 100% agree with you that racism needs to be tackled, absolutely it does and it certainly still exists, I just don't agree with the way especially in America, BLMs way of protesting. A lot of the major protest groups such as XR, Insulate Britain & BLM have good manifestos (all of them are a little communist politically however, but doesn't take away from the key message at heart) but their ways of protesting deter the attention away from the original message they had at hand. I understand the idea is that "by getting on the news you're bringing attention to the matter" but to me I don't appreciate (in the USA) their way of going about the publicity and also how some of their protestors act. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 3, 2021 14:08:03 GMT
Yes the BLM protests were unacceptable. I don't exactly like Trump but him sending riot police to deal with BLM in worst hit areas was a good call. What I saw in America was just shocking and horrific. Some people honestly behaved like animals, people have been injured, cars burnt and most important mass theft and destruction of shops. Black people forcing white people to kneel is unacceptable. Hate Extinction Rebellion as well. Statue defacement is also unacceptable especially of people like Winston Churchill, they a hero's, yes they may have been racist but who wasn't in these times, I find it annoying when people judge people of first half of the 20th Century to to today's standards. Insulate Britain, Extinction Rebellion should be an immediate arrest and criminal prosecution, as they are getting ridiculous, have had warnings, are useless and cause mass disruption. Extinction Rebellion are hypocrites and don't even know what to do themselves! But I do try to be as much as possible to treat everyone equally by race. I don't think you should be defending Churchill's racist views. It's wrong to promote the fact that just because it was acceptable back then that they should still be regarded as amazing people. When new information comes to light about something you don't ignore it and hope for the best, you accept what the truth was. Churchill was no doubt racist and it's time people actually realised. Churchill was who got us through the war, the reason we can all type what we want here and have free access to computers is because of people like Churchill and that should obviously never be taken away from them, but we need to remember that they still had bad characteristics that are still unacceptable. I don't think you can compare BLM to the fools at Extinction Rebellion and Insulate Britain. All three were advocating for immediate change, but the BLM matter required immediate change. It was economically possible to start to launch investigations into the police and their handling of cases as soon as possible. It's not economically possible to make everything electric overnight, it is not economically possible to ban all planes from flying. It is possible to make change in a viewpoint and it is possible to prevent deaths because of personal racist views being prevented. While among the BLM protests there were a very small minority that made use of the crowds for personal gain, but the people there were protesting for a genuine cause, a cause that needed to be fixed as soon as possible and a cause that the government otherwise wouldn't have acted up against. Extinction Rebellion and insulate Britain are protesting against things the government is already well aware of and are making steps towards achieving. BLM is a very mixed bag though because there was certainly more than a minority that were advocating some very disturbing views especially the organisations own Twitter page which was stoking anti Semitic tones. There are far better ways to achieve equality in race than that but it won’t happen because both sides don’t want to address the awkward facts. |
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Post by dashing0ne on Oct 3, 2021 14:40:43 GMT
Yes the BLM protests were unacceptable. I don't exactly like Trump but him sending riot police to deal with BLM in worst hit areas was a good call. What I saw in America was just shocking and horrific. Some people honestly behaved like animals, people have been injured, cars burnt and most important mass theft and destruction of shops. Black people forcing white people to kneel is unacceptable. Hate Extinction Rebellion as well. Statue defacement is also unacceptable especially of people like Winston Churchill, they a hero's, yes they may have been racist but who wasn't in these times, I find it annoying when people judge people of first half of the 20th Century to to today's standards. Insulate Britain, Extinction Rebellion should be an immediate arrest and criminal prosecution, as they are getting ridiculous, have had warnings, are useless and cause mass disruption. Extinction Rebellion are hypocrites and don't even know what to do themselves! But I do try to be as much as possible to treat everyone equally by race. I don't think you should be defending Churchill's racist views. It's wrong to promote the fact that just because it was acceptable back then that they should still be regarded as amazing people. When new information comes to light about something you don't ignore it and hope for the best, you accept what the truth was. Churchill was no doubt racist and it's time people actually realised. Churchill was who got us through the war, the reason we can all type what we want here and have free access to computers is because of people like Churchill and that should obviously never be taken away from them, but we need to remember that they still had bad characteristics that are still unacceptable. I don't think you can compare BLM to the fools at Extinction Rebellion and Insulate Britain. All three were advocating for immediate change, but the BLM matter required immediate change. It was economically possible to start to launch investigations into the police and their handling of cases as soon as possible. It's not economically possible to make everything electric overnight, it is not economically possible to ban all planes from flying. It is possible to make change in a viewpoint and it is possible to prevent deaths because of personal racist views being prevented. While among the BLM protests there were a very small minority that made use of the crowds for personal gain, but the people there were protesting for a genuine cause, a cause that needed to be fixed as soon as possible and a cause that the government otherwise wouldn't have acted up against. Extinction Rebellion and insulate Britain are protesting against things the government is already well aware of and are making steps towards achieving. I do reiterate that racism is wrong including Churchill's views however he still is a hero for he led the whole political West in WW2 to victory. In fact, it is a shame people were racist on such a mass scale. Everybody has their good sides and bad sides. |
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Post by dashing0ne on Oct 3, 2021 14:41:48 GMT
I don't think you should be defending Churchill's racist views. It's wrong to promote the fact that just because it was acceptable back then that they should still be regarded as amazing people. When new information comes to light about something you don't ignore it and hope for the best, you accept what the truth was. Churchill was no doubt racist and it's time people actually realised. Churchill was who got us through the war, the reason we can all type what we want here and have free access to computers is because of people like Churchill and that should obviously never be taken away from them, but we need to remember that they still had bad characteristics that are still unacceptable. I don't think you can compare BLM to the fools at Extinction Rebellion and Insulate Britain. All three were advocating for immediate change, but the BLM matter required immediate change. It was economically possible to start to launch investigations into the police and their handling of cases as soon as possible. It's not economically possible to make everything electric overnight, it is not economically possible to ban all planes from flying. It is possible to make change in a viewpoint and it is possible to prevent deaths because of personal racist views being prevented. While among the BLM protests there were a very small minority that made use of the crowds for personal gain, but the people there were protesting for a genuine cause, a cause that needed to be fixed as soon as possible and a cause that the government otherwise wouldn't have acted up against. Extinction Rebellion and insulate Britain are protesting against things the government is already well aware of and are making steps towards achieving. I'd 100% agree with you that racism needs to be tackled, absolutely it does and it certainly still exists, I just don't agree with the way especially in America, BLMs way of protesting. A lot of the major protest groups such as XR, Insulate Britain & BLM have good manifestos (all of them are a little communist politically however, but doesn't take away from the key message at heart) but their ways of protesting deter the attention away from the original message they had at hand. I understand the idea is that "by getting on the news you're bringing attention to the matter" but to me I don't appreciate (in the USA) their way of going about the publicity and also how some of their protestors act. This is literally what I am trying to say. |
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Post by N230UD on Oct 3, 2021 15:59:41 GMT
I do reiterate that racism is wrong including Churchill's views however he still is a hero for he led the whole political West in WW2 to victory. In fact, it is a shame people were racist on such a mass scale. Everybody has their good sides and bad sides. It is possible to consider Churchill a great hero, as well as recognising some of his awful views and actions. Some people seem to take extreme views either way on Churchill (either thinking he was absolutely evil, or someone who can do absolutely no wrong), and with other topics, which is not helpful. |
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Post by dashing0ne on Oct 3, 2021 16:04:53 GMT
I do reiterate that racism is wrong including Churchill's views however he still is a hero for he led the whole political West in WW2 to victory. In fact, it is a shame people were racist on such a mass scale. Everybody has their good sides and bad sides. It is possible to consider Churchill a great hero, as well as recognising some of his awful views and actions. Some people seem to take extreme views either way on Churchill (either thinking he was absolutely evil, or someone who can do absolutely no wrong), and with other topics, which is not helpful. That is exactly what I recognise and said that he is a hero for WW2 but was racist. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 3, 2021 16:12:39 GMT
I do reiterate that racism is wrong including Churchill's views however he still is a hero for he led the whole political West in WW2 to victory. In fact, it is a shame people were racist on such a mass scale. Everybody has their good sides and bad sides. It is possible to consider Churchill a great hero, as well as recognising some of his awful views and actions. Some people seem to take extreme views either way on Churchill (either thinking he was absolutely evil, or someone who can do absolutely no wrong), and with other topics, which is not helpful. Agreed and if it was not for him we would not have the ability to have done many things after the war or even it could've still affected us to this today being under Nazism.
However, as you say his views were racist and I condemn them.
Not gonna lie I do think if we don't have one already we should perhaps add a politics thread to the forum.
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Post by WH241 on Oct 3, 2021 16:15:14 GMT
This has to be the ultimate thread drift ever.....
Meanwhile had that winning feeling at Beckton Tesco getting petrol! Most cars were like sheep all waiting behind each other on the first 3 or 4 pumps completely ignoring the two pumps furthest away. Drove straight to the pump in and out in minutes.
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Post by WH241 on Oct 3, 2021 16:18:24 GMT
It is possible to consider Churchill a great hero, as well as recognising some of his awful views and actions. Some people seem to take extreme views either way on Churchill (either thinking he was absolutely evil, or someone who can do absolutely no wrong), and with other topics, which is not helpful. Agreed and if it was not for him we would not have the ability to have done many things after the war or even it could've still affected us to this today being under Nazism.
However, as you say his views were racist and I condemn them.
Not gonna lie I do think if we don't have one already we should perhaps add a politics thread to the forum.
I think a political thread would be extremely toxic. This is only my personal view this is based on the covid thread which I still regret creating sometimes. Any thread that's not about transport usually ends up very contention saying that some bus chats end up that way. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 3, 2021 16:31:04 GMT
It is possible to consider Churchill a great hero, as well as recognising some of his awful views and actions. Some people seem to take extreme views either way on Churchill (either thinking he was absolutely evil, or someone who can do absolutely no wrong), and with other topics, which is not helpful. Agreed and if it was not for him we would not have the ability to have done many things after the war or even it could've still affected us to this today being under Nazism. However, as you say his views were racist and I condemn them. Not gonna lie I do think if we don't have one already we should perhaps add a politics thread to the forum.
A politics thread that goes the same way as this thread does - think a politics thread shouldn't exist as it would just lead to certain people shoving their agendas out there whilst the rest actually try to have a reasonable debate |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 3, 2021 17:13:51 GMT
Agreed and if it was not for him we would not have the ability to have done many things after the war or even it could've still affected us to this today being under Nazism. However, as you say his views were racist and I condemn them. Not gonna lie I do think if we don't have one already we should perhaps add a politics thread to the forum.
A politics thread that goes the same way as this thread does - think a politics thread shouldn't exist as it would just lead to certain people shoving their agendas out there whilst the rest actually try to have a reasonable debate What could perhaps be argued however is that perhaps people wouldn't shove it as hard as in the current threads it has to be quite concentrated (like a drink) in order for the thread to not go off topic. So they contain all their thoughts in quite a small sentence.
But I definitely see you and WH241s points and I would agree.
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Post by richard on Oct 4, 2021 16:10:05 GMT
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