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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2021 14:22:59 GMT
Where are you trying to board the 267 and in which direction? The 490, R68, R70 situation is of course the result of withdrawing route H22 between Twickenham and Richmond and diverting it to West Middlesex Hospital. TfL assured everyone that there would be sufficient capacity available on the remaining routes. It doesn’t help that the frequent 33 does not serve Richmond Station. Incidentally I have had cause to use the 110 and 481 in the Whitton area recently. The 110 is building up a decent base of patronage on the new direct Whitton to Richmond section with evidence of local journeys within Whitton, longer journeys to Richmond and even the new stops on the A316 being used. The 481 seems to have a loyal following in Whitton, particularly on the Hospital Bridge Road section where it runs alone. Quite surprising for a route that only runs every 30 minutes. The Whitton to Isleworth link is useful but would be much better patronised if it ran through to Brentford County Court, opening up interchange with other bus routes on London Road and a direct service to schools and Morrison’s. I've been on a few 110s and its usage seems average even between the Richmond to Whitton area where the loads are over half full. Personally, I have no problem with the route, it's even smart at some places but I just think it's just too long and feels like 2 routes joined together to make one extremely long route. I think it would be much more efficient if the route was split in half with the Hammersmith to Richmond sector being the "391" and the Richmond to Hounslow sector being the "110". That way, the route would be less prone to delays. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 15, 2021 16:13:25 GMT
I think the 110 and 391 were probably the wrong two routes to join together due to the now indirect and long nature of the 110. The 419 probably was the better choice as its shorter and more direct to Hammersmith but obviously the Bridge Troubles put that out.
If it was able to take DDs then the H37 could have taken on the 337 effectively removing a route to Manor Circus and one from the bus station. In fact had the routing remained the same as the 37 then the 337 probably would have run from Hounslow to CJ anyways in 1991.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 15, 2021 16:46:41 GMT
I have always doubted the efficiency of the H22 extension from Twickenham to West Middlesex Hospital, every 12mins daytimes in place of route 110 every 20mins. I would be interested to know how well it loads on the extended section in the peaks, but on the occasions that I have seen it off peak, I’ve not been that impressed and there have been plenty of spare seats on the 267 bus behind. In the current climate there’s no chance of an extension to Brentford. As a frequenter, I can assure you that re-routing the H22 to West Middlesex was and still is one of the dumbest choices ever made by TFL. They exposed the 490 on the busiest section of the route and the benefits from such a move are minimal. Between Twickenham and West Middlesex, the route is hardly busy even during the peak-hours and what's worse is that hardly anyone between Sixth Cross Road and Twickenham Green uses the route anymore and instead pile up on the 490 as that's the only route that goes to Richmond which is where they want to go instead of West Middlesex or Twickenham Station. The 490 is a route that doesn't need deckers as it only needs the assistance of the H22 on the Sixth Cross Road-Richmond corridor to ease the load but now it could use some during the peak-hours. However, it could very well carry on as a single decker route until 2024 as there are some routes that need deckers more like the 195, 235 or 355 especially the former. In all fairness I think TFL were pressured into it because hospital links are very political and also the H22 would become an extremely short route (not that there's anything wrong with it).
The 490 should probably be decked and in good reason outside of the section closer to Richmond, demand is clearly high on the western end at Heathrow for the route to start before 4am and I imagine it was busy at least pre COVID with shift workers at Heathrow, but there is concern about Pools on the Park being suitable for deckers however there should be no issue. I know it's also been mentioned about possibly cutting the 490 back to Richmond and the 493 perhaps taking its place but the 490 would miss a key objective being Richmond Station.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 15, 2021 16:48:25 GMT
I think the 110 and 391 were probably the wrong two routes to join together due to the now indirect and long nature of the 110. The 419 probably was the better choice as its shorter and more direct to Hammersmith but obviously the Bridge Troubles put that out. If it was able to take DDs then the H37 could have taken on the 337 effectively removing a route to Manor Circus and one from the bus station. In fact had the routing remained the same as the 37 then the 337 probably would have run from Hounslow to CJ anyways in 1991. Your first point I'd agree with but the second I don't think I would. Not local to SW London but I imagine since 1991 traffic levels have increased a lot and the 337 itself pre COVID was certainly reported on here to run into congestion problems on the South Circular, I imagine St John's Road in CJ is also a pain to navigate and I'd worry about reliability problems particularly on the western end. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 15, 2021 17:06:01 GMT
I think the 110 and 391 were probably the wrong two routes to join together due to the now indirect and long nature of the 110. The 419 probably was the better choice as its shorter and more direct to Hammersmith but obviously the Bridge Troubles put that out. If it was able to take DDs then the H37 could have taken on the 337 effectively removing a route to Manor Circus and one from the bus station. In fact had the routing remained the same as the 37 then the 337 probably would have run from Hounslow to CJ anyways in 1991. Your first point I'd agree with but the second I don't think I would. Not local to SW London but I imagine since 1991 traffic levels have increased a lot and the 337 itself pre COVID was certainly reported on here to run into congestion problems on the South Circular, I imagine St John's Road in CJ is also a pain to navigate and I'd worry about reliability problems particularly on the western end. The South Circular has become far worse to traverse after Putney right up to Kew since the Hammersmith Bridge shut but even before then, there were traffic issues and a merger of the two would bring a worse service to both the 337 & H37 sections overall, the latter being a very important and highly used route at present. The other issue with merging the 337 & H37 together is the frequencies with the 337 only every 12 minutes Mon-Sat, 15 evenings & Sundays whilst the H37 is every 7-8 minutes Mon-Sat, 10 Sundays and 12 evenings and that higher frequency isn't needed on the 337 but is certainly needed on the H37 |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 15, 2021 17:15:17 GMT
Your first point I'd agree with but the second I don't think I would. Not local to SW London but I imagine since 1991 traffic levels have increased a lot and the 337 itself pre COVID was certainly reported on here to run into congestion problems on the South Circular, I imagine St John's Road in CJ is also a pain to navigate and I'd worry about reliability problems particularly on the western end. The South Circular has become far worse to traverse after Putney right up to Kew since the Hammersmith Bridge shut but even before then, there were traffic issues and a merger of the two would bring a worse service to both the 337 & H37 sections overall, the latter being a very important and highly used route at present. The other issue with merging the 337 & H37 together is the frequencies with the 337 only every 12 minutes Mon-Sat, 15 evenings & Sundays whilst the H37 is every 7-8 minutes Mon-Sat, 10 Sundays and 12 evenings and that higher frequency isn't needed on the 337 but is certainly needed on the H37 Agreed to me I think the H37 is a very good example of short services being useful. I do tend to agree with decking of all routes that can take them but certainly the H37s every 7-8 minute frequency is attractive to punters even though the H37 cannot take deckers anyway as there is a low bridge and I doubt DDs can make it down Loring Road especially with the turn onto it from St John's Road & onto Linkfield Road to avoid the low bridge, I doubt parked cars would be an issue especially when the W3 seems to cope fine along Rokesly Avenue/Elmfield Avenue every 6 minutes with pretty similar parking conditions. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 15, 2021 18:01:30 GMT
The South Circular has become far worse to traverse after Putney right up to Kew since the Hammersmith Bridge shut but even before then, there were traffic issues and a merger of the two would bring a worse service to both the 337 & H37 sections overall, the latter being a very important and highly used route at present. The other issue with merging the 337 & H37 together is the frequencies with the 337 only every 12 minutes Mon-Sat, 15 evenings & Sundays whilst the H37 is every 7-8 minutes Mon-Sat, 10 Sundays and 12 evenings and that higher frequency isn't needed on the 337 but is certainly needed on the H37 Agreed to me I think the H37 is a very good example of short services being useful. I do tend to agree with decking of all routes that can take them but certainly the H37s every 7-8 minute frequency is attractive to punters even though the H37 cannot take deckers anyway as there is a low bridge and I doubt DDs can make it down Loring Road especially with the turn onto it from St John's Road & onto Linkfield Road to avoid the low bridge, I doubt parked cars would be an issue especially when the W3 seems to cope fine along Rokesly Avenue/Elmfield Avenue every 6 minutes with pretty similar parking conditions. The 37, when it ran to Hounslow, was run using deckers and used a different route to the H37 to avoid the bridge but that route was removed due to parked cars, possibly at the time the 37 was split into three routes but I'm not sure on that aspect. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2021 18:05:52 GMT
The U1 could do with a frequency increase on Sundays to 3bph. I think 1 bus per 30 minutes is not enough, though demand would be greater between Uxbridge and West Drayton
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Post by greenboy on Nov 15, 2021 18:21:14 GMT
The U1 could do with a frequency increase on Sundays to 3bph. I think 1 bus per 30 minutes is not enough, though demand would be greater between Uxbridge and West Drayton I think there are a lot of routes that could do with a frequency increase Sunday daytime, often busier than Saturdays. TfL might catch on eventually? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 15, 2021 18:51:50 GMT
Agreed to me I think the H37 is a very good example of short services being useful. I do tend to agree with decking of all routes that can take them but certainly the H37s every 7-8 minute frequency is attractive to punters even though the H37 cannot take deckers anyway as there is a low bridge and I doubt DDs can make it down Loring Road especially with the turn onto it from St John's Road & onto Linkfield Road to avoid the low bridge, I doubt parked cars would be an issue especially when the W3 seems to cope fine along Rokesly Avenue/Elmfield Avenue every 6 minutes with pretty similar parking conditions. The 37, when it ran to Hounslow, was run using deckers and used a different route to the H37 to avoid the bridge but that route was removed due to parked cars, possibly at the time the 37 was split into three routes but I'm not sure on that aspect. Probably was linked to the inevitable split of the 37 due to different garages going to be within different diversions for privatisation. Was probably seen as a good opportunity to address the bridge issue when it was felt the time was right for the 337 was being created. Exactly the same as the 49. Just to clarify I wasn't suggesting at all to merge the 2 routes now. I was stating that had DDs been allowed along the whole route, LRT would probably have happily renumbered the CJ to Hounslow section to 337 but that by splitting it it created the issues on stand space now in Richmond hence the rather silly 110/391 merger. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 15, 2021 19:19:38 GMT
The 37, when it ran to Hounslow, was run using deckers and used a different route to the H37 to avoid the bridge but that route was removed due to parked cars, possibly at the time the 37 was split into three routes but I'm not sure on that aspect. Probably was linked to the inevitable split of the 37 due to different garages going to be within different diversions for privatisation. Was probably seen as a good opportunity to address the bridge issue when it was felt the time was right for the 337 was being created. Exactly the same as the 49. Just to clarify I wasn't suggesting at all to merge the 2 routes now. I was stating that had DDs been allowed along the whole route, LRT would probably have happily renumbered the CJ to Hounslow section to 337 but that by splitting it it created the issues on stand space now in Richmond hence the rather silly 110/391 merger. I'm pretty sure that when the 337 was introduced in 1991, as part of the Wandsworth changes, it would have been Hounslow to Clapham Junction the same as the 37 if it weren't for that bridge. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 15, 2021 19:29:46 GMT
I like the 337 route actually. The way it goes from urban zone 2 past the Peabody estate etc at Clapham Junction out to the quaint Richmond via Barnes Common.
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Post by WH241 on Nov 15, 2021 20:07:57 GMT
The U1 could do with a frequency increase on Sundays to 3bph. I think 1 bus per 30 minutes is not enough, though demand would be greater between Uxbridge and West Drayton I think there are a lot of routes that could do with a frequency increase Sunday daytime, often busier than Saturdays. TfL might catch on eventually? Unlikely in the current climate you only have to look at the cuts coming soon to east London routes (101,262,366 all serve a large retail park and supermarkets).
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 15, 2021 20:12:33 GMT
Where are you trying to board the 267 and in which direction? The 490, R68, R70 situation is of course the result of withdrawing route H22 between Twickenham and Richmond and diverting it to West Middlesex Hospital. TfL assured everyone that there would be sufficient capacity available on the remaining routes. It doesn’t help that the frequent 33 does not serve Richmond Station. Incidentally I have had cause to use the 110 and 481 in the Whitton area recently. The 110 is building up a decent base of patronage on the new direct Whitton to Richmond section with evidence of local journeys within Whitton, longer journeys to Richmond and even the new stops on the A316 being used. The 481 seems to have a loyal following in Whitton, particularly on the Hospital Bridge Road section where it runs alone. Quite surprising for a route that only runs every 30 minutes. The Whitton to Isleworth link is useful but would be much better patronised if it ran through to Brentford County Court, opening up interchange with other bus routes on London Road and a direct service to schools and Morrison’s. I've been on a few 110s and its usage seems average even between the Richmond to Whitton area where the loads are over half full. Personally, I have no problem with the route, it's even smart at some places but I just think it's just too long and feels like 2 routes joined together to make one extremely long route. I think it would be much more efficient if the route was split in half with the Hammersmith to Richmond sector being the "391" and the Richmond to Hounslow sector being the "110". That way, the route would be less prone to delays. Very true. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 15, 2021 20:13:51 GMT
I think the 110 and 391 were probably the wrong two routes to join together due to the now indirect and long nature of the 110. The 419 probably was the better choice as its shorter and more direct to Hammersmith but obviously the Bridge Troubles put that out. If it was able to take DDs then the H37 could have taken on the 337 effectively removing a route to Manor Circus and one from the bus station. In fact had the routing remained the same as the 37 then the 337 probably would have run from Hounslow to CJ anyways in 1991. The great advantage of route H37 is that it serves Richmond Station which the 37/337 didn’t/wouldn’t. |
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