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Post by cl54 on Apr 23, 2024 10:06:22 GMT
The 244 was promised a review after the Elizabeth line opened. It's so busy now that it requires double deckers.
The 386 runs every 15 minutes during the day. The Shooters Hill 6th form college has students wanting to use it throughout the day as they attend different classes. Often there are more students at one stop waiting to board than the capacity of the bus. There are five schools/colleges on the route. It needs more buses and these could come from removing the lightly used section of route between Greenwich Cutty Sark and Blackheath Village. (The justification for the extension was to serve the private hospital which is not actually on the route.)
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2024 10:16:29 GMT
The best suggestion I've seen on here for replacing the 45 was rerouting the 35 to Clapham Park and rerouting the 436 from Camberwell to Clapham Junction. What's wrong with the 171 and 172? Although I like the 436 providing links from Clapham & Brixton to Lewisham, it has a lower frequency than the 35 & the Clapham/Brixton corridor is notorious for capacity problems. I would definitely increase the 37’s frequency though tbh it needs it regardless. I agree about the 37 and I think the 436 should be increased to 6bph. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2024 10:37:52 GMT
The 244 was promised a review after the Elizabeth line opened. It's so busy now that it requires double deckers. The 386 runs every 15 minutes during the day. The Shooters Hill 6th form college has students wanting to use it throughout the day as they attend different classes. Often there are more students at one stop waiting to board than the capacity of the bus. There are five schools/colleges on the route. It needs more buses. I think there are restrictions in Broadwaters that prevent double deckers on the 244 and I'm not sure they're the best option anyway, how many people would actually go upstairs? Needs a frequency increase though. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2024 11:54:09 GMT
The best suggestion I've seen on here for replacing the 45 was rerouting the 35 to Clapham Park and rerouting the 436 from Camberwell to Clapham Junction. What's wrong with the 171 and 172? Although I like the 436 providing links from Clapham & Brixton to Lewisham, it has a lower frequency than the 35 & the Clapham/Brixton corridor is notorious for capacity problems. I would definitely increase the 37’s frequency though tbh it needs it regardless. Splitting the 345 into two separate routes would be better than diverting the 436 which provides useful assistance from Vauxhall to New Cross to the 36. One route would be South Kensington to Brixton and the other would be Lewisham to Clapham Junction with the former having the option of following the 35 & 37 into Brixton. The 45 would be left as is |
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Post by ADH45258 on Apr 23, 2024 12:13:31 GMT
Although I like the 436 providing links from Clapham & Brixton to Lewisham, it has a lower frequency than the 35 & the Clapham/Brixton corridor is notorious for capacity problems. I would definitely increase the 37’s frequency though tbh it needs it regardless. Splitting the 345 into two separate routes would be better than diverting the 436 which provides useful assistance from Vauxhall to New Cross to the 36. One route would be South Kensington to Brixton and the other would be Lewisham to Clapham Junction with the former having the option of following the 35 & 37 into Brixton. The 45 would be left as is My original suggestion (to reroute the 436 via Brixton) was really a split of the 436, so would still maintain links via Vauxhall. I suggested to have one route from Clapham Junction to Lewisham (this could be numbered 35), and one route from Battersea Park to North Greenwich. The latter could also potentially replace part of the 177, with the 177 diverted to Lewisham as per the previous 180. Then the 129 diverted via Blackheath (increasing capacity to DDs here), and the 108 cut back to Charlton to improve reliability. So in summary: 35 Clapham Junction - Lewisham 45 Clapham Park - Shoreditch 108 Stratford International - Charlton 129 Great Eastern Quay - Lewisham (via Blackheath) 177 Lewisham - Thamesmead 345 unchanged (though could cut back to Camberwell with the 35 serving Peckham) 436 Battersea Park - North Greenwich |
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Post by ADH45258 on Apr 23, 2024 12:18:21 GMT
the 45 does after they cut it back to elephant and castle same with the 171 and the 172 The best suggestion I've seen on here for replacing the 45 was rerouting the 35 to Clapham Park and rerouting the 436 from Camberwell to Clapham Junction. What's wrong with the 171 and 172? I think some kind of merger of the 171 and 172 could be considered if cuts need to be made in the area - would basically be the 172 but extended from Brockley to Catford. Existing routes like the 12/185 would maintain most of the 171's links via Camberwell. I would also suggest a short extension of the 78 from Nunhead to Brockley Rise, maintainting the link between Peckham and Nunhead. And increase the 12's frequency slightly. |
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Post by rift on Apr 23, 2024 14:12:20 GMT
Splitting the 345 into two separate routes would be better than diverting the 436 which provides useful assistance from Vauxhall to New Cross to the 36. One route would be South Kensington to Brixton and the other would be Lewisham to Clapham Junction with the former having the option of following the 35 & 37 into Brixton. The 45 would be left as is My original suggestion (to reroute the 436 via Brixton) was really a split of the 436, so would still maintain links via Vauxhall. I suggested to have one route from Clapham Junction to Lewisham (this could be numbered 35), and one route from Battersea Park to North Greenwich. The latter could also potentially replace part of the 177, with the 177 diverted to Lewisham as per the previous 180. Then the 129 diverted via Blackheath (increasing capacity to DDs here), and the 108 cut back to Charlton to improve reliability. So in summary: 35 Clapham Junction - Lewisham 45 Clapham Park - Shoreditch 108 Stratford International - Charlton 129 Great Eastern Quay - Lewisham (via Blackheath) 177 Lewisham - Thamesmead 345 unchanged (though could cut back to Camberwell with the 35 serving Peckham) 436 Battersea Park - North Greenwich Removing the 177 from Deptford, New Cross and Peckham would likely cause more problems than it would solve and add much more pressure on the 53. I wouldn’t involve the 108 or 129 either. |
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Post by abellion on Apr 23, 2024 14:44:51 GMT
The 244 was promised a review after the Elizabeth line opened. It's so busy now that it requires double deckers. The 386 runs every 15 minutes during the day. The Shooters Hill 6th form college has students wanting to use it throughout the day as they attend different classes. Often there are more students at one stop waiting to board than the capacity of the bus. There are five schools/colleges on the route. It needs more buses. Sometimes 493s towards Richmond will approach the Wimbledon Road stop almost rammed with about as many people waiting as are already on the bus, the first issue being it isn’t even using buses of the maximum length that fit on route, which IIRC just happened to the 366. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 23, 2024 16:31:07 GMT
The 244 was promised a review after the Elizabeth line opened. It's so busy now that it requires double deckers. The 386 runs every 15 minutes during the day. The Shooters Hill 6th form college has students wanting to use it throughout the day as they attend different classes. Often there are more students at one stop waiting to board than the capacity of the bus. There are five schools/colleges on the route. It needs more buses. Sometimes 493s towards Richmond will approach the Wimbledon Road stop almost rammed with about as many people waiting as are already on the bus, the first issue being it isn’t even using buses of the maximum length that fit on route, which IIRC just happened to the 366. To be fair the 493 only appears to have been cleared for 10.8m vehicles when the 485 took some of the 170s 60-reg SE. Even now appearances are still rather sporadic. Hopefully it will get 10.9m SEe if retained by Go Ahead. |
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Post by londonbuses on Apr 23, 2024 17:22:36 GMT
Sometimes 493s towards Richmond will approach the Wimbledon Road stop almost rammed with about as many people waiting as are already on the bus, the first issue being it isn’t even using buses of the maximum length that fit on route, which IIRC just happened to the 366. To be fair the 493 only appears to have been cleared for 10.8m vehicles when the 485 took some of the 170s 60-reg SE. Even now appearances are still rather sporadic. Hopefully it will get 10.9m SEe if retained by Go Ahead. However bad the Streetlites are, I'm hoping the 39's 10.8m Streetlites are moved onto the 493 when it converts to electrics purely for the extra capacity they would provide. I believe they are already blinded for the 493 from when both routes were based at PL. The 10.2m SEs from the 493 can then be used on the S1, allowing the Metrocities and SOEs to be withdrawn and the 9.3m SEs moved elsewhere (or used on the 463). |
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Post by ronnie on Apr 23, 2024 18:12:47 GMT
My original suggestion (to reroute the 436 via Brixton) was really a split of the 436, so would still maintain links via Vauxhall. I suggested to have one route from Clapham Junction to Lewisham (this could be numbered 35), and one route from Battersea Park to North Greenwich. The latter could also potentially replace part of the 177, with the 177 diverted to Lewisham as per the previous 180. Then the 129 diverted via Blackheath (increasing capacity to DDs here), and the 108 cut back to Charlton to improve reliability. So in summary: 35 Clapham Junction - Lewisham 45 Clapham Park - Shoreditch 108 Stratford International - Charlton 129 Great Eastern Quay - Lewisham (via Blackheath) 177 Lewisham - Thamesmead 345 unchanged (though could cut back to Camberwell with the 35 serving Peckham) 436 Battersea Park - North Greenwich Removing the 177 from Deptford, New Cross and Peckham would likely cause more problems than it would solve and add much more pressure on the 53. I wouldn’t involve the 108 or 129 either. Agree with you. I would also add that doing what the OP suggested the above would leave Greenwich High Road (and Greenwich station) without a bus service which is definitely a no-go. The 129 is also earmarked for an extension north of the river so let’s not play around with the southern end please … plus doing the above also removes more capacity from Trafalgar road (after the 180 removal). This will also pile additional pressure on the 188 heading to North Greenwich and also loss of a direct bus to ikea / Charlton retail parks which won’t go down well |
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Post by ADH45258 on Apr 23, 2024 19:26:52 GMT
Removing the 177 from Deptford, New Cross and Peckham would likely cause more problems than it would solve and add much more pressure on the 53. I wouldn’t involve the 108 or 129 either. Agree with you. I would also add that doing what the OP suggested the above would leave Greenwich High Road (and Greenwich station) without a bus service which is definitely a no-go. The 129 is also earmarked for an extension north of the river so let’s not play around with the southern end please … plus doing the above also removes more capacity from Trafalgar road (after the 180 removal). This will also pile additional pressure on the 188 heading to North Greenwich and also loss of a direct bus to ikea / Charlton retail parks which won’t go down well None of the links or capacity that you mention would be removed in my suggestions. The revised 436 would replace the 177 between Peckham and East Greenwich, and the 129 between Greenwich Station and North Greenwich. And the revised 177 would replace the 129 between East Greenwich and Lewisham - also restoring the former 180 links. Also the frequencies of all routes involved could be adjusted to maintain current capacity. The 129 in its current form would effectively be replaced by the 177 and 436. Then a new route would cover the proposed route north of the river, still continuing south to Lewisham but instead via the 108 to increase capacity here (by using DDs). This could use a new number to avoid confusion. The only links that would be broken are longer distance ones on the 177, from Peckham/Deptford through to the Woolwich area. Someone else suggested that this would put more pressure on the 53. However it's been mentioned anyway how busy the 53 gets, so I think the best solution regardless would be to split the 53 into two routes, overlapping between New Cross and Woolwich. So the 53 cut back to Woolwich, and a new route maybe from Peckham (using the current 177 stand) to Plumstead. |
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Post by cl54 on Apr 24, 2024 7:15:50 GMT
Agree with you. I would also add that doing what the OP suggested the above would leave Greenwich High Road (and Greenwich station) without a bus service which is definitely a no-go. The 129 is also earmarked for an extension north of the river so let’s not play around with the southern end please … plus doing the above also removes more capacity from Trafalgar road (after the 180 removal). This will also pile additional pressure on the 188 heading to North Greenwich and also loss of a direct bus to ikea / Charlton retail parks which won’t go down well None of the links or capacity that you mention would be removed in my suggestions. The revised 436 would replace the 177 between Peckham and East Greenwich, and the 129 between Greenwich Station and North Greenwich. And the revised 177 would replace the 129 between East Greenwich and Lewisham - also restoring the former 180 links. Also the frequencies of all routes involved could be adjusted to maintain current capacity. The 129 in its current form would effectively be replaced by the 177 and 436. Then a new route would cover the proposed route north of the river, still continuing south to Lewisham but instead via the 108 to increase capacity here (by using DDs). This could use a new number to avoid confusion. The only links that would be broken are longer distance ones on the 177, from Peckham/Deptford through to the Woolwich area. Someone else suggested that this would put more pressure on the 53. However it's been mentioned anyway how busy the 53 gets, so I think the best solution regardless would be to split the 53 into two routes, overlapping between New Cross and Woolwich. So the 53 cut back to Woolwich, and a new route maybe from Peckham (using the current 177 stand) to Plumstead. There's nowhere to turn buses at East Greenwich or Charlton from the west with facilities for drivers. Woolwich has no space now. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Apr 24, 2024 7:54:05 GMT
The 244 was promised a review after the Elizabeth line opened. It's so busy now that it requires double deckers. The 386 runs every 15 minutes during the day. The Shooters Hill 6th form college has students wanting to use it throughout the day as they attend different classes. Often there are more students at one stop waiting to board than the capacity of the bus. There are five schools/colleges on the route. It needs more buses. Sometimes 493s towards Richmond will approach the Wimbledon Road stop almost rammed with about as many people waiting as are already on the bus, the first issue being it isn’t even using buses of the maximum length that fit on route, which IIRC just happened to the 366. Interesting. I have always wondered if there was a mismatch of frequencies required at the different ends of the 493. I guess demand is much higher on the Wimbledon to Tooting section. If Sadiq Khan’s Richmond to Wimbledon Superloop route is introduced then I imagine there will be accompanying changes to the 493 which might allow for a higher frequency at the Tooting end. Glad that the 493 has been a success story in terms of attracting passengers. |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 24, 2024 10:35:11 GMT
Sometimes 493s towards Richmond will approach the Wimbledon Road stop almost rammed with about as many people waiting as are already on the bus, the first issue being it isn’t even using buses of the maximum length that fit on route, which IIRC just happened to the 366. Interesting. I have always wondered if there was a mismatch of frequencies required at the different ends of the 493. I guess demand is much higher on the Wimbledon to Tooting section. If Sadiq Khan’s Richmond to Wimbledon Superloop route is introduced then I imagine there will be accompanying changes to the 493 which might allow for a higher frequency at the Tooting end. Glad that the 493 has been a success story in terms of attracting passengers. Lots of new residential development along Plough Lane too. The 493 is one of those orbital routes that really needs tidying up and also more suitable vehicles. Hopefully the Wimbledon-Richmond Superloop will go some way to that. I actually wonder if it'd be better to chop it at Roehampton in that instance and send it to Danebury Avenue or Bessborough Road and then recycle the PVR savings into increasing it to 6bph. Most longer-distance trips would still be catered for. |
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