|
Post by snowman on Jun 26, 2022 6:30:54 GMT
It is 50 years since the first 1972 stock entered service on the Underground, on 26th June 1972. The Bakerloo Line trains are not only the oldest on the Underground; with the recent conversion of the Island Line on the Isle of Wight to Vivarail class 484 operation these are the oldest electric multiple units in regular service anywhere in the UK. However the 1972 stock did not enter service initially on the Bakerloo Line, nor were they originally intended for it. There had been plans for a new fleet of trains on the Northern Line, but with the Piccadilly Line extension to Heathrow Airport planned for opening during the 1970s, these plans were scrapped and a totally new fleet of trains (the 1973 stock, with features to make them more suitable for airport travellers and their luggage) was designed for the Piccadilly Line instead. The Piccadilly Line's 1959 stock would transfer to the Northern Line instead but this would have left a shortfall of 30 units, so an order for 30 new trains, based on the 1967 stock already in operation on the Victoria Line, was hastily put together. These were the Mark I units. A further 33 Mark II Units followed on later in 1972. This order was placed by the Government as Metro-Cammell was facing financial collapse due to a gap in its order book; the order was justified by earmarking them for the new Fleet Line when it opened in the late 1970s, although they too entered service initially on the Northern Line. They moved to the Bakerloo Line between April 1977 and April 1979, operating on both the Stanmore and Queen's Park/Watford Junction branches before being concentrated on the Fleet Line (by now renamed Jubilee) when it opened on 1st May 1979. The residual Bakerloo Line service between Elephant and Queen's Park (and Watford Junction until September 1982) was then operated with the remaining 1938 stock. Service reductions in the early 1980s, and the introduction of 1983 stock on the Jubilee Line, allowed 1959 stock to be cascaded on to the Bakerloo Line gradually replacing the 1938 stock. However during the late 1980s the 1972 stock stared reappearing, allowing the Bakerloo Line to be converted to driver-only operation from November 1989 (the 1959 stock went back to the Northern Line, where driver-only operation was still some years away). Since then the Bakerloo Line has been operated solely with 1972 stock, mostly Mark II carriages although some Mark I vehicles have been retained to provide extra trains. How can one tell the difference between mark I and II units ? The mk2 units had some features for eventual conversion to ATO (automatic train operation), such as ATO position on selector switch (not connected), extra whistle button on offside of cab etc. that was expected to be used on Fleet Line (later renamed Jubilee Line). 12 of the mk2 had de icing sprays Visually they had green/blue moquette with blue armrests (mk1 had the red/black/grey moquette with red armrests as per Victoria line). But most obvious were the red painted doors and a red painted roundel on outside between the doors. The mk1s were unpainted and had word Underground instead of a roundel. Obviously since refurbishment, they are all painted same so mk1 vs mk2 is no longer obvious from outside. One correction to wirewiper excellent summary is the order for the 33 mk2 units was authorised by GLC on 17th November 1971 (not by the Government) because LT didn’t want Metro-Cammell to close prior to starting the Piccadilly line stock order
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Jun 26, 2022 9:00:23 GMT
How can one tell the difference between mark I and II units ? The mk2 units had some features for eventual conversion to ATO (automatic train operation), such as ATO position on selector switch (not connected), extra whistle button on offside of cab etc. that was expected to be used on Fleet Line (later renamed Jubilee Line). 12 of the mk2 had de icing sprays Visually they had green/blue moquette with blue armrests (mk1 had the red/black/grey moquette with red armrests as per Victoria line). But most obvious were the red painted doors and a red painted roundel on outside between the doors. The mk1s were unpainted and had word Underground instead of a roundel. Obviously since refurbishment, they are all painted same so mk1 vs mk2 is no longer obvious from outside. One correction to wirewiper excellent summary is the order for the 33 mk2 units was authorised by GLC on 17th November 1971 (not by the Government) because LT didn’t want Metro-Cammell to close prior to starting the Piccadilly line stock order Thank you for clarifying about the Mark II order - although I believe that the Government provided the bulk of the funding (one source says 75% with the remaining 25% coming from the GLC) as they too wanted to stop Metro-Cammell as a British manufacturer from going under.
|
|
|
Post by towerman on Jun 26, 2022 9:29:43 GMT
How can one tell the difference between mark I and II units ? The mk2 units had some features for eventual conversion to ATO (automatic train operation), such as ATO position on selector switch (not connected), extra whistle button on offside of cab etc. that was expected to be used on Fleet Line (later renamed Jubilee Line). 12 of the mk2 had de icing sprays Visually they had green/blue moquette with blue armrests (mk1 had the red/black/grey moquette with red armrests as per Victoria line). But most obvious were the red painted doors and a red painted roundel on outside between the doors. The mk1s were unpainted and had word Underground instead of a roundel. Obviously since refurbishment, they are all painted same so mk1 vs mk2 is no longer obvious from outside. One correction to wirewiper excellent summary is the order for the 33 mk2 units was authorised by GLC on 17th November 1971 (not by the Government) because LT didn’t want Metro-Cammell to close prior to starting the Piccadilly line stock order Don’t know if it’s changed since I was on the Bakerloo,Mk1 unit doors had bottom wheel tracks.Mk2 units are top hung.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 1, 2022 0:19:19 GMT
South London councils call for tube extensionSouth London council leaders have called on the government to begin digging the tunnels for a proposed Tube extension.www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce5mlxr36dlo
|
|
|
Post by VMH2537 on Oct 1, 2022 5:14:41 GMT
South London councils call for tube extensionSouth London council leaders have called on the government to begin digging the tunnels for a proposed Tube extension.www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce5mlxr36dlo Crossrail 2 should be prioritised as a major infastructure project for London, especially with the arrival of HS2 at Euston. Can't see the treasury funding the Bakerloo extension sadly, doesn't provide wide national benefits apart from local benefits in the South East.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Oct 1, 2022 8:34:12 GMT
South London councils call for tube extensionSouth London council leaders have called on the government to begin digging the tunnels for a proposed Tube extension.www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce5mlxr36dlo Crossrail 2 should be prioritised as a major infastructure project for London, especially with the arrival of HS2 at Euston. Can't see the treasury funding the Bakerloo extension sadly, doesn't provide wide national benefits apart from local benefits in the South East. And in conjunction with CR2 the Northern Line further construction to Clapham Junction could take place. It's a pity the Bakerloo Line couldn't at least be extended to New Cross as the 1st stage.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Oct 1, 2022 9:46:54 GMT
South London councils call for tube extensionSouth London council leaders have called on the government to begin digging the tunnels for a proposed Tube extension.www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce5mlxr36dlo Crossrail 2 should be prioritised as a major infastructure project for London, especially with the arrival of HS2 at Euston. Can't see the treasury funding the Bakerloo extension sadly, doesn't provide wide national benefits apart from local benefits in the South East. Seems slightly odd to be so advocating the Bakerloo line extension when from December southeastern are introducing a new timetable that reduces the number of trains into Charing Cross from the Lewisham area no doubt due to fallen demand. Surely it would be cheaper for TFL to either take on some of those line as Overground services or to support Southeastern to run more Lewisham/New Cross to Central London services.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Oct 1, 2022 10:23:18 GMT
Crossrail 2 should be prioritised as a major infastructure project for London, especially with the arrival of HS2 at Euston. Can't see the treasury funding the Bakerloo extension sadly, doesn't provide wide national benefits apart from local benefits in the South East. Seems slightly odd to be so advocating the Bakerloo line extension when from December southeastern are introducing a new timetable that reduces the number of trains into Charing Cross from the Lewisham area no doubt due to fallen demand. Surely it would be cheaper for TFL to either take on some of those line as Overground services or to support Southeastern to run more Lewisham/New Cross to Central London services. The December timetable actually increases the off peak service from Lewisham to Charing Cross from 4tph to 6tph. If the Bakerloo Line extension takes over the Mid Kent Line to Hayes as has been suggested that would free up slots for other services into Charing Cross.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Nov 29, 2022 16:59:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by londontravel on Dec 12, 2022 13:15:44 GMT
|
|
|
Post by mkay315 on Dec 13, 2022 9:24:59 GMT
To the folks on here that lived or lives in North West London. A long time friend of mine that lived in Harlesden told me that prior to Overground taking over in 2007 trains that used to go to Stonebridge Park depot would terminate at Willesden Junction and run empty to the depot from there thus not stopping at Harlesden.
Did that use to happen?
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Dec 13, 2022 9:39:26 GMT
To the folks on here that lived or lives in North West London. A long time friend of mine that lived in Harlesden told me that prior to Overground taking over in 2007 trains that used to go to Stonebridge Park depot would terminate at Willesden Junction and run empty to the depot from there thus not stopping at Harlesden. Did that use to happen? Yes I think it was because there were no platform staff at Harlesden to check that the train was empty.
|
|
|
Post by kmkcheng on Dec 13, 2022 12:43:36 GMT
To the folks on here that lived or lives in North West London. A long time friend of mine that lived in Harlesden told me that prior to Overground taking over in 2007 trains that used to go to Stonebridge Park depot would terminate at Willesden Junction and run empty to the depot from there thus not stopping at Harlesden. Did that use to happen? Yes due to no detraining staff at Stonebridge Park. Southbound services picked passengers up at Stonebridge Park as normal.
|
|
|
Post by joefrombow on Dec 13, 2022 16:28:21 GMT
I think the 72 stock should be converted to Solar Panel energy and they should make the extension run above ground along the Old Kent Road and then via the 436 bus route from New Cross to Lewisham then connect with the SE lines would be more efficient and cheaper and preserve the stock for another 50 years 😂😂 in all seriousness honestly as the Bakerloo doesn't serve The City is there really demand for an extension to the Hayes Line wouldn't this be a rather large white Elephant ? (Pun Intended)
|
|
|
Post by TA1 on Dec 13, 2022 18:33:18 GMT
To the folks on here that lived or lives in North West London. A long time friend of mine that lived in Harlesden told me that prior to Overground taking over in 2007 trains that used to go to Stonebridge Park depot would terminate at Willesden Junction and run empty to the depot from there thus not stopping at Harlesden. Did that use to happen? Yes I think it was because there were no platform staff at Harlesden to check that the train was empty. A slight correction on your comment, it was because of a lack of platform staff to perform detrainments at Stonebridge Park, hence why the Bakerloo's would ECS from Willesden Junction. This was whilst some of the stations on the Watford DC were still operated by Silverlink. - Shudders.
|
|