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Post by COBO on Dec 1, 2021 8:40:53 GMT
Could the Bakerloo Line be closed without replacement? Also if Bakerloo Line shuts what will happen to new trains it is supposed to get?
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 1, 2021 8:48:00 GMT
Could the Bakerloo Line be closed without replacement? Also if Bakerloo Line shuts what will happen to new trains it is supposed to get? If an S114 is issued the whole network could be shut down without replacement. No Bakerloo line trains are on order, just Piccadilly line.
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Post by WH241 on Dec 1, 2021 8:51:48 GMT
Could the Bakerloo Line be closed without replacement? Also if Bakerloo Line shuts what will happen to new trains it is supposed to get? Well the new trains wouldn't be ordered!!
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Post by COBO on Dec 1, 2021 9:05:29 GMT
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Post by COBO on Dec 1, 2021 9:06:23 GMT
Could the Bakerloo Line be closed without replacement? Also if Bakerloo Line shuts what will happen to new trains it is supposed to get? If an S114 is issued the whole network could be shut down without replacement. No Bakerloo line trains are on order, just Piccadilly line. The whole network. What! How can that happen. This is really bad.
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Post by COBO on Dec 1, 2021 9:06:45 GMT
Could the Bakerloo Line be closed without replacement? Also if Bakerloo Line shuts what will happen to new trains it is supposed to get? Well the new trains wouldn't be ordered!! Oh right. That’s kind of a waste.
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Post by snowman on Dec 1, 2021 9:23:29 GMT
Well the new trains wouldn't be ordered!! Oh right. That’s kind of a waste. Currently sufficient trains have been ordered for Piccadilly to replace existing and increase frequency from 24 to 27 trains per hour. However the 27tph requires signalling enhancements, so might yet be a political fix and the extra trains get diverted to Bakerloo. I forget the exact percentage increase in capacity of new trains, but it is something like 10% so with current suppressed demand Piccadilly might not need the 27tph. This is speculation, but possibly the service on Piccadilly will be cut a bit, especially on outer ends, if so might be enough trains to cover Bakerloo, even more so if it lost its Harrow workings
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Post by TB123 on Dec 1, 2021 9:26:40 GMT
If an S114 is issued the whole network could be shut down without replacement. No Bakerloo line trains are on order, just Piccadilly line. The whole network. What! How can that happen. This is really bad. TfL is essentially a local authority and so if it issues an S114 it would not be able to run anything other than statutory services - those being school transport, taxi licensing, some trunk road repairs and the Woolwich Ferry. The Tube, DLR, Overground, Tramlink, TfL rail and the majority of the bus network would likely be closed - but past the immediate focus on statutory services, there could be a resumption of a slimmed down selection of services that make an absolute surplus.
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Post by COBO on Dec 1, 2021 9:28:09 GMT
The whole network. What! How can that happen. This is really bad. TfL is essentially a local authority and so if it issues an S114 it would not be able to run anything other than statutory services - those being school transport, taxi licensing, some trunk road repairs and the Woolwich Ferry. The Tube, DLR, Overground, Tramlink, TfL rail and the majority of the bus network would likely be closed - and past immediate focus on stat services, slimmed down to a selection of services that make an absolute surplus. Wow 😯 that is very bad.
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 1, 2021 9:40:31 GMT
The whole network. What! How can that happen. This is really bad. TfL is essentially a local authority and so if it issues an S114 it would not be able to run anything other than statutory services - those being school transport, taxi licensing, some trunk road repairs and the Woolwich Ferry. The Tube, DLR, Overground, Tramlink, TfL rail and the majority of the bus network would likely be closed - but past the immediate focus on statutory services, there could be a resumption of a slimmed down selection of services that make an absolute surplus. Indeed word has it that TfL would cherry pick the profitable services to run and leave everything else it isn’t required by law to run. I still believe that the government will step in and offer a deal, they just cannot leave nearly 9 million without a public transport system. Even if it means a slim down on current services and transferring some small areas like road management to the councils and river boat management, except the Woolwich ferry, to the Port of London authority. Perhaps we could even see some tube lines privatised in a similar management style to the Overground.
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 1, 2021 9:42:40 GMT
TfL is essentially a local authority and so if it issues an S114 it would not be able to run anything other than statutory services - those being school transport, taxi licensing, some trunk road repairs and the Woolwich Ferry. The Tube, DLR, Overground, Tramlink, TfL rail and the majority of the bus network would likely be closed - but past the immediate focus on statutory services, there could be a resumption of a slimmed down selection of services that make an absolute surplus. Indeed word has it that TfL would cherry pick the profitable services to run and leave everything else it isn’t required by law to run. I still believe that the government will step in and offer a deal, they just cannot leave nearly 9 million without a public transport system. Even if it means a slim down on current services and transferring some small areas like road management to the councils and river boat management, except the Woolwich ferry, to the Port of London authority. Perhaps we could even see some tube lines privatised in a similar management style to the Overground. Another possibility is a radical fares overhaul
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 9:44:19 GMT
The whole network. What! How can that happen. This is really bad. TfL is essentially a local authority and so if it issues an S114 it would not be able to run anything other than statutory services - those being school transport, taxi licensing, some trunk road repairs and the Woolwich Ferry. The Tube, DLR, Overground, Tramlink, TfL rail and the majority of the bus network would likely be closed - but past the immediate focus on statutory services, there could be a resumption of a slimmed down selection of services that make an absolute surplus. Surely that's very unlikely though - it would be carnage without public transport, I'd imagine the roads would be gridlocked because so many people would be driving
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Post by WH241 on Dec 1, 2021 9:46:19 GMT
Well the new trains wouldn't be ordered!! Oh right. That’s kind of a waste. How is it a waste? Would be a waste if trains were ordered for a closed line. Maybe I'm missing something really obvious with the questions.
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 1, 2021 9:47:26 GMT
The TfL budget for 2023/4 has been shot out of the water, so no longer exists. The options on the other lines will not be taken up and are now stated to be expected to be replaced in the 2035-40 period.
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Post by snowman on Dec 1, 2021 10:05:27 GMT
The whole network. What! How can that happen. This is really bad. TfL is essentially a local authority and so if it issues an S114 it would not be able to run anything other than statutory services - those being school transport, taxi licensing, some trunk road repairs and the Woolwich Ferry. The Tube, DLR, Overground, Tramlink, TfL rail and the majority of the bus network would likely be closed - but past the immediate focus on statutory services, there could be a resumption of a slimmed down selection of services that make an absolute surplus. Its also unclear when any S114 would be triggered. The Government funding ends at end of period 9 (of 13) which is 11 December. The latest Finance report is going to be added as late material to next weeks TfL Board. Last I heard had about £0.2bn cash over minimum cash balance which suggests got 2-5 weeks before it becomes close to having to issue it. My own guess is some form of lower funding will be agreed once TfL concede a bit on fare rises and free tickets.
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