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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 1, 2022 18:25:33 GMT
Not really, ultimately one of the massive turnaways for those shopping on the high street was high cost of parking. I understand for some high streets however such as Walworth, Brixton, Streatham etc there is adequate transportation in place whereas in some parts of the country there isn't in the way of buses & until that investment starts then I imagine for those driving into town centres it'll be by car. Apparently Croydon has quite high parking fees for example. Which is intrinsically linked to the decline of Croydon town centre, exorbitant parking charges mean people go elsewhere such as the retail parks around Purley Way which as far as I'm aware offer free parking. Could another drawback be the loss of bus service serving the heart of Croydon Town Centre, now that the 2019 changes meant buses terminating on the outskirts of town? |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 1, 2022 18:27:02 GMT
Covid to continue to dominate but to a lesser degree. The 1,168,271 etc proposals go ahead as planned with similar proposals and frequency reductions. Hell to finally freeze over and the 24 to be altered, possibly even withdrawn completely with changes to other routes in part replacement. Abellio continue to be successful gaining the 11 and 78 and retaining the 159, I think they might also gain at least one of the Sutton routes, the 154? I wouldn't be greatly surprised if the 353 was withdrawn completely apart from school journeys and one of the R routes extended to Addington Village in part replacement. Improved rates of pay for drivers to stem the flow leaving for better driving jobs elsewhere. And quite possibly the government/DfT taking control. I see a 353 withdrawal being extremely unlikely but it would not surprise me if to "match demand" the termini at that end was swapped with the 61 I know this would be incredibly long but could it always be that the 433 replaces the 353 to Ramsden Estate and perhaps double run via Selsdon Wood? |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 1, 2022 18:38:15 GMT
Which is intrinsically linked to the decline of Croydon town centre, exorbitant parking charges mean people go elsewhere such as the retail parks around Purley Way which as far as I'm aware offer free parking. Could another drawback be the loss of bus service serving the heart of Croydon Town Centre, now that the 2019 changes meant buses terminating on the outskirts of town? No I don't think that has anything to do with it really, the 250,264,405 and 412 still stop reasonably near to the shopping area and those changes have reduced congestion along Wellesley Road. Tramlink can be used as an unofficial park and ride, there is free on street parking near to many stops, but for people with cars there isn't much in Croydon town centre nowadays that they can't get elsewhere. I think Box Park is probably the biggest attraction now for leisure related activities. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 1, 2022 18:47:29 GMT
I see a 353 withdrawal being extremely unlikely but it would not surprise me if to "match demand" the termini at that end was swapped with the 61 I know this would be incredibly long but could it always be that the 433 replaces the 353 to Ramsden Estate and perhaps double run via Selsdon Wood? Possibly although the frequencies are different. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 1, 2022 18:49:05 GMT
I know this would be incredibly long but could it always be that the 433 replaces the 353 to Ramsden Estate and perhaps double run via Selsdon Wood? Possibly although the frequencies are different. The 433 is half the size of 353 in terms of capacity so I imagine the amount of capacity would be similar. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 1, 2022 18:54:20 GMT
Could another drawback be the loss of bus service serving the heart of Croydon Town Centre, now that the 2019 changes meant buses terminating on the outskirts of town? No I don't think that has anything to do with it really, the 250,264,405 and 412 still stop reasonably near to the shopping area and those changes have reduced congestion along Wellesley Road. Tramlink can be used as an unofficial park and ride, there is free on street parking near to many stops, but for people with cars there isn't much in Croydon town centre nowadays that they can't get elsewhere. I think Box Park is probably the biggest attraction now for leisure related activities. I'd have thought Centrale would've been a pretty big attraction, shopping centres seem to still be thriving. |
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 1, 2022 19:03:37 GMT
And quite possibly the government/DfT taking control. This statement I think is for the better especially as the government seem to be interested in Bussing Back Better which TFL ARE NOT interested in & TFL consistently ask for government support, well they can have their cake and have the government control it if they can't control it themselves. TfL IS interested in Bus Back Better, but they are in the same boat as every other Local Transport Authority - the money HAS to come from the Government. The need for Government support has arisen as people followed the Government advice not to use public transport. All bus and rail operators have been receiving financial support since March/April 2020. What TfL has been asking for - and the Government has so far not given - is a longer-term financial package so that they can plan forward and schedule maintenance and investment. The railway network has the same issue. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 1, 2022 19:12:33 GMT
Possibly although the frequencies are different. The 433 is half the size of 353 in terms of capacity so I imagine the amount of capacity would be similar. I think the 353 only has double deckers for school loadings, just like the 412, hence my suggestion of it being replaced by one of the R routes to Addington. I've travelled from Orpington to Addington many times pre covid and I've often been the only one on the top deck. I think a better option would be to extend the 353 back to Croydon via Shirley and reduce the 466 but I can't see that happening. |
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Post by enviroPB on Jan 1, 2022 19:14:22 GMT
Covid to continue to dominate but to a lesser degree. The 1,168,271 etc proposals go ahead as planned with similar proposals and frequency reductions. Hell to finally freeze over and the 24 to be altered, possibly even withdrawn completely with changes to other routes in part replacement. Abellio continue to be successful gaining the 11 and 78 and retaining the 159, I think they might also gain at least one of the Sutton routes, the 154? I wouldn't be greatly surprised if the 353 was withdrawn completely apart from school journeys and one of the R routes extended to Addington Village in part replacement. Improved rates of pay for drivers to stem the flow leaving for better driving jobs elsewhere. And quite possibly the government/DfT taking control. I couldn't help but laugh at that!   If the route that has been unchanged for a century is changed in some way, that would make the headlines and will show to the outside world how screwed TfL's financial position is. The 24 is very iconic, that'd make it harder to alter. However in saying that, iconography has nothing to do with it given how the 15H went. WH241 said the second it was reduced to weekend summer operation that it was the slow beginning of an ultimate withdrawal. He was right. Perhaps it's best to stop judging the drastic measures whilst simultaneously ignoring the drastic times TfL is in.  |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 1, 2022 19:27:26 GMT
Covid to continue to dominate but to a lesser degree. The 1,168,271 etc proposals go ahead as planned with similar proposals and frequency reductions. Hell to finally freeze over and the 24 to be altered, possibly even withdrawn completely with changes to other routes in part replacement. Abellio continue to be successful gaining the 11 and 78 and retaining the 159, I think they might also gain at least one of the Sutton routes, the 154? I wouldn't be greatly surprised if the 353 was withdrawn completely apart from school journeys and one of the R routes extended to Addington Village in part replacement. Improved rates of pay for drivers to stem the flow leaving for better driving jobs elsewhere. And quite possibly the government/DfT taking control. I couldn't help but laugh at that! If the route that has been unchanged for a century is changed in some way, that would make the headlines and will show to the outside world how screwed TfL's financial position is. The 24 is very iconic, that'd make it harder to alter. However in saying that, iconography has nothing to do with it given how the 15H went. WH241 said the second it was reduced to weekend summer operation that it was the slow beginning of an ultimate withdrawal. He was right. Perhaps it's best to stop judging the drastic measures whilst simultaneously ignoring the drastic times TfL is in. Quite honestly other than a few enthusiasts I don't think anybody much cares about the 24, or indeed the 15 for that matter. As you say the drastic situation means nothing is safe. |
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Post by WH241 on Jan 1, 2022 19:33:36 GMT
I couldn't help but laugh at that! If the route that has been unchanged for a century is changed in some way, that would make the headlines and will show to the outside world how screwed TfL's financial position is. The 24 is very iconic, that'd make it harder to alter. However in saying that, iconography has nothing to do with it given how the 15H went. WH241 said the second it was reduced to weekend summer operation that it was the slow beginning of an ultimate withdrawal. He was right. Perhaps it's best to stop judging the drastic measures whilst simultaneously ignoring the drastic times TfL is in. Quite honestly other than a few enthusiasts I don't think anybody much cares about the 24, or indeed the 15 for that matter. As you say the drastic situation means nothing is safe. Think you are very wrong about the 24 and can imagine a lot of attention if it was proposed for withdrawal. I can see a route 13 type of renumbering if anything was to happen. No one cares about the 15? Find that funny as you used to be fairly focal about the 15h withdrawal. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 1, 2022 19:33:38 GMT
And quite possibly the government/DfT taking control. This statement I think is for the better especially as the government seem to be interested in Bussing Back Better which TFL ARE NOT interested in & TFL consistently ask for government support, well they can have their cake and have the government control it if they can't control it themselves. I agree and I think there is a clear conflict of interest with TfL running buses with one hand whilst promoting walking and cycling with the other hand. |
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Post by TB123 on Jan 1, 2022 19:37:00 GMT
This statement I think is for the better especially as the government seem to be interested in Bussing Back Better which TFL ARE NOT interested in & TFL consistently ask for government support, well they can have their cake and have the government control it if they can't control it themselves. I agree and I think there is a clear conflict of interest with TfL running buses with one hand whilst promoting walking and cycling with the other hand. No there isn't. They are an *integrated* transport authority. That includes buses and walking cycling in harmony. No conflict of interest. |
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Post by WH241 on Jan 1, 2022 19:43:48 GMT
I couldn't help but laugh at that! If the route that has been unchanged for a century is changed in some way, that would make the headlines and will show to the outside world how screwed TfL's financial position is. The 24 is very iconic, that'd make it harder to alter. However in saying that, iconography has nothing to do with it given how the 15H went. WH241 said the second it was reduced to weekend summer operation that it was the slow beginning of an ultimate withdrawal. He was right. Perhaps it's best to stop judging the drastic measures whilst simultaneously ignoring the drastic times TfL is in. The 24 being altered might make headlines in the enthusiast world. Beyond that? Not so. Besides the odd local petition or article. Inner London bus service changes are just not as politically sensitive as further out (eg 384) - hence why most cuts in the last couple years have gone by with relative silence. Pretty sure the 24 has made the news in the past but can’t remember the reason. If numbers are not important why has it already been proposed the number one will be used for the 168 change? |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 1, 2022 19:55:22 GMT
Which is intrinsically linked to the decline of Croydon town centre, exorbitant parking charges mean people go elsewhere such as the retail parks around Purley Way which as far as I'm aware offer free parking. Could another drawback be the loss of bus service serving the heart of Croydon Town Centre, now that the 2019 changes meant buses terminating on the outskirts of town? I suspect there has been an effect - if your bus originally got you closer and now puts you further away, even only by a bit and you have access to a car, your likely going to use your car instead. The decline of Croydon Town Centre is not just one issue as Captain Cuts might have you believe - there are a number of different factors as to why people don't go there no more from certain changes involving transport to the gang culture thats rife in the town centre to similar shops opening up elsewhere that's both nearer and more accessible to people. As to your earlier point around the DfT to run TfL being for the better, I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree with you - they will only cut the network even more than whats happening now. I wouldn't trust anyone in the government to run anything and I say that as someone who is no fan of Khan either. |
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