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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 27, 2022 15:07:32 GMT
The problem is that it is not in the West's strategic interests to go to war with a military superpower as there would be much more loss than gains for the West. Ukraine is important for Russia as a buffer of flat land. I am very grateful for living in the UK a land of freedom both economically and politically, but living in a totalitarian state is bad but not as bad when your entire family is wiped out, in a Russian-style authoritarian state everybody lives their lives but should keep quiet politically, and whilst Western democracy is definitely a privilege that should be a universal right I would not want perhaps a million people to die of an attack like this. Mentality does vary between people especially of different backgrounds and what may seem rational to others may not to different peoples. What I can say that Ukrainians are a good people, brotherly to Russians, and it is something to be admired, their determination to live in a free state, and in such an attack every Ukrainian who died on that attack especially those fighting, will be smiled in history. The reason I think at this stage, an escalation is likely, as it would make Russia look weak in front of the West (more to governments than people), surrendering to such a smaller power like Ukraine and Russia will most likely procceed because it can. If Putin uses any kind of Nuclear weapons, it will be worse than the actions of Hitler in the build up to WWW2. Are you saying we should have just left Hitler to carry out the atrocities of the 30s and 40s ... that seems to be the modern day view you are taking. If Russia were to ever get to our shores, we will have already lost, in your view, when should the west step in? I am was never talking about nukes rather the Thermarobic bombs discussed previously, not nukes. Obviously if Russia gets to our shores we should fight, or if Russia uses nukes against any other country or on Ukraine (to prevent further use of nukes) there should be a very serious reaction from the West, a war. However, unless Russia uses nukes against Ukraine, I don't see any interference. All of previous conversation was about the Thermarobic bombs ready to be shot of to Kyiv. But again these Thermarobic bombs would still obliterate Kiev, like Grozny, and Zelensky will need to continue Ukraine's defensive actions (of their land) or surrender to avoid Thermarobic bombs being sent off. Something is really wrong with Putin's state of mind... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2022 15:09:13 GMT
My thoughts.
NATO has been pushing the boundaries east in recent years and to be honest what did they expect Putin to do faced with the potential of weapons aimed at Russia at their border.
So this whole disaster was just a matter of time and would have been planned for by both sides for years. Therefore I don’t trust NATO or Western governments either.
We’re now in a game brinkmanship.
Either someone blinks and it’s deescalated. This could be through negotiations or through use of a nasty weapon on Ukraine.
A “mistake” happens and someone overreacts and it goes nuclear v quickly/
A military coup in Russia
I don’t think this will end in total victory for Ukraine.
Perhaps a better scenario is a delegation come to table to hold negotiations with all involved with some of Ukraine given up and an agreement reached that NATO does not ever place weapon’s on that soil:
I do think nato countries shoulder some of the blame for it reaching this point and not having taken into account how determined Putin is.
Putin being Putin is betraying his own people and I can only hope their awareness is improved and given the support they all need to demand regime change there.
It is only the rich who have an interest to keep this conflict going/
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 27, 2022 15:16:25 GMT
My thoughts. NATO has been pushing the boundaries east in recent years and to be honest what did they expect Putin to do faced with the potential of weapons aimed at Russia at their border. So this whole disaster was just a matter of time and would have been planned for by both sides for years. Therefore I don’t trust NATO or Western governments either. We’re now in a game brinkmanship. Either someone blinks and it’s deescalated. This could be through negotiations or through use of a nasty weapon on Ukraine. A “mistake” happens and someone overreacts and it goes nuclear v quickly/ A military coup in Russia I don’t think this will end in total victory for Ukraine. Perhaps a better scenario is a delegation come to table to hold negotiations with all involved with some of Ukraine given up and an agreement reached that NATO does not ever place weapon’s on that soil: I do think nato countries shoulder some of the blame for it reaching this point and not having taken into account how determined Putin is. Putin being Putin is betraying his own people and I can only hope their awareness is improved and given the support they all need to demand regime change there. It is only the rich who have an interest to keep this conflict going/ Nobody is perfect and I fully agree, the West also had its fair share of atrocious acts abroad, bombing Belgrade to persue its interests in creating Kosovo and to force Serbia to stop, that is the exact same thing of what is happening in Ukraine, West attacks pro-Russian country to persue its aims, now the opposite is happening. Fully agree that yes NATO is quietly slightly provoking Russia by constantly having its troops on Russia's borders. Obviously, right now, Russia is doing the horrible acts. Ukraine should be neutral, like Switzerland, to avoid any war and to respect the concerns of all parties involved. The negotiations tommorow are likely going to be giving Zelensky the two options I detailed previously, but perhaps maybe fate will help the world and let true negotiations begin. I do think Russia just really needs to stop before it will get more about Ukraine rather more global. |
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Post by SILENCED on Feb 27, 2022 15:21:06 GMT
If Putin uses any kind of Nuclear weapons, it will be worse than the actions of Hitler in the build up to WWW2. Are you saying we should have just left Hitler to carry out the atrocities of the 30s and 40s ... that seems to be the modern day view you are taking. If Russia were to ever get to our shores, we will have already lost, in your view, when should the west step in? I am was never talking about nukes rather the Thermarobic bombs discussed previously, not nukes. Obviously if Russia gets to our shores we should fight, or if Russia uses nukes against any other country or on Ukraine (to prevent further use of nukes) there should be a very serious reaction from the West, a war. However, unless Russia uses nukes against Ukraine, I don't see any interference. All of previous conversation was about the Thermarobic bombs ready to be shot of to Kyiv. But again these Thermarobic bombs would still obliterate Kiev, like Grozny, and Zelensky will need to continue Ukraine's defensive actions (of their land) or surrender to avoid Thermarobic bombs being sent off. Something is really wrong with Putin's state of mind... Should bombs capable of vapourizing human bodies over a wide area really be regarded as much different to nuclear? If you are saying use of such weapons is justified, then yes, let's sit back and do nothing. But where will he use them next, and how far will he push weapons then. Dont say it won't happen, despite protestations, the world sat back and let Hitler take Czechoslovakia. What happened next? Saying no more as it is a horrible subject to think about |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Feb 27, 2022 15:22:26 GMT
The problem is that it is not in the West's strategic interests to go to war with a military superpower as there would be much more loss than gains for the West. Ukraine is important for Russia as a buffer of flat land. I am very grateful for living in the UK a land of freedom both economically and politically, but living in a totalitarian state is bad but not as bad when your entire family is wiped out, in a Russian-style authoritarian state everybody lives their lives but should keep quiet politically, and whilst Western democracy is definitely a privilege that should be a universal right I would not want perhaps a million people to die of an attack like this. Mentality does vary between people especially of different backgrounds and what may seem rational to others may not to different peoples. What I can say that Ukrainians are a good people, brotherly to Russians, and it is something to be admired, their determination to live in a free state, and in such an attack every Ukrainian who died on that attack especially those fighting, will be smiled in history. The reason I think at this stage, an escalation is likely, as it would make Russia look weak in front of the West (more to governments than people), surrendering to such a smaller power like Ukraine and Russia will most likely procceed because it can. If Putin uses any kind of Nuclear weapons, it will be worse than the actions of Hitler in the build up to WWW2. Are you saying we should have just left Hitler to carry out the atrocities of the 30s and 40s ... that seems to be the modern day view you are taking. If Russia were to ever get to our shores, we will have already lost, in your view, when should the west step in? I fully support the Ukrainian nations and people's right to self determination, not have it imposed on them by an out of control despot dictator. In some ways we did let Hitler do that, especially under Chamberlain with appeasement
Your points are absolutely right though
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Post by vjaska on Feb 27, 2022 16:23:48 GMT
My thoughts. NATO has been pushing the boundaries east in recent years and to be honest what did they expect Putin to do faced with the potential of weapons aimed at Russia at their border. So this whole disaster was just a matter of time and would have been planned for by both sides for years. Therefore I don’t trust NATO or Western governments either. We’re now in a game brinkmanship. Either someone blinks and it’s deescalated. This could be through negotiations or through use of a nasty weapon on Ukraine. A “mistake” happens and someone overreacts and it goes nuclear v quickly/ A military coup in Russia I don’t think this will end in total victory for Ukraine. Perhaps a better scenario is a delegation come to table to hold negotiations with all involved with some of Ukraine given up and an agreement reached that NATO does not ever place weapon’s on that soil: I do think nato countries shoulder some of the blame for it reaching this point and not having taken into account how determined Putin is. Putin being Putin is betraying his own people and I can only hope their awareness is improved and given the support they all need to demand regime change there. It is only the rich who have an interest to keep this conflict going The West are far from perfect (see Iraq for instance) but the point about it ‘pushing the boundaries’ personally is incorrect. There are countries who border Russia who joined NATO for security and one of the non negotiables is to not ignore any country within the alliance. That includes making sure they are protected with troops & weapons should a situation like current happens. No one fired weapons into Russia nor had intentions to do so and Russia has no point in this when itself wanders into countries to destabilise them (Georgia, Moldova & Ukraine), tries to bully others to follow suit like the ‘than’ group of countries. Any wonder why many countries all of a sudden want to join NATO because rather than bothered about the West’s questionable reputation, they are scared witless about Russia so no, this is all on Putin & his mate Lukashenko in Belarus |
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Post by WH241 on Feb 27, 2022 16:30:18 GMT
Breaking News: Putin ordered Russian Defence Minister, Sergei Shoigu and the Russian Army into nuclear deterrence mode. Last inflicted all the way back in 1962 with nukes transported to Cuba (Cuban Missile Crisis) the Nuclear Deterrence Mode provides for Russian Nuclear Rockets to be placed in launching mode, ready to attack; following what Putin called, 'aggressive statements and actions' by the West. Whilst Russia wanted negotions in Belarusian City Gomel, Zelensky now agreed to negotiations in the Belarusian-Ukrainian border. Oppositionist hacker revealed Russia will demand immediate concessions from Ukraine including neutrality, federalisation among other things otherwise (if Ukraine does not agree) Russia will attack with a Thermorabic bomb on the capital Kiev, which would desimate the city and overthrow the government, the leaks were written by the Russian Ministry of Defence as part of the previously mentioned Plan B and at the meeting with Shoigu today Putin allegedly, according to hacker Putin gave the order to proceed if Zelensky doesn't give in. Whilst I wouldn't take for certain, due to it being from an anonymous hacker, could be a plausible outcome. Someone needs to get in there and assassinate Putin. This will only end badly otherwise. I think Putin has completely lost the plot and something will have to give eventually otherwise this could end badly for us all.
It's like living in a disaster movie we just had two years of Covid now on the brink of WW3.
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 27, 2022 16:41:56 GMT
I am was never talking about nukes rather the Thermarobic bombs discussed previously, not nukes. Obviously if Russia gets to our shores we should fight, or if Russia uses nukes against any other country or on Ukraine (to prevent further use of nukes) there should be a very serious reaction from the West, a war. However, unless Russia uses nukes against Ukraine, I don't see any interference. All of previous conversation was about the Thermarobic bombs ready to be shot of to Kyiv. But again these Thermarobic bombs would still obliterate Kiev, like Grozny, and Zelensky will need to continue Ukraine's defensive actions (of their land) or surrender to avoid Thermarobic bombs being sent off. Something is really wrong with Putin's state of mind... Should bombs capable of vapourizing human bodies over a wide area really be regarded as much different to nuclear? If you are saying use of such weapons is justified, then yes, let's sit back and do nothing. But where will he use them next, and how far will he push weapons then. Dont say it won't happen, despite protestations, the world sat back and let Hitler take Czechoslovakia. What happened next? Saying no more as it is a horrible subject to think about I never even hinted that such action is justifiable, and whilst those Thermarobic bombs are very destructuve to human life and structures, they are not as bad as a nuclear weapons as it does not cause as much impact in area. Obviously if Putin attacks NATO territory there should be a war as the West is committed to defence of those countries however with Ukraine, the West is not committed to its defence, and do not believe dragging the whole world into war over Ukraine is what's right at this stage, however I do think the West should provide all assistance to the Ukrainians including weapons but not actually fight the war. If if the invasion spreads to different countries or uses nukes against Ukraine then the West should interfere. He would likely stop at Ukraine, at least for now, as attacking NATO territory would be too risky and Russia's current interests would be met. Some point to the Baltics, but that is also NATO and Putin has Kalliningrad Oblast, an exclave on the Baltic Sea for Russia's Baltic purposes. Obviously all of this is horrible. |
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 27, 2022 16:45:41 GMT
My thoughts. NATO has been pushing the boundaries east in recent years and to be honest what did they expect Putin to do faced with the potential of weapons aimed at Russia at their border. So this whole disaster was just a matter of time and would have been planned for by both sides for years. Therefore I don’t trust NATO or Western governments either. We’re now in a game brinkmanship. Either someone blinks and it’s deescalated. This could be through negotiations or through use of a nasty weapon on Ukraine. A “mistake” happens and someone overreacts and it goes nuclear v quickly/ A military coup in Russia I don’t think this will end in total victory for Ukraine. Perhaps a better scenario is a delegation come to table to hold negotiations with all involved with some of Ukraine given up and an agreement reached that NATO does not ever place weapon’s on that soil: I do think nato countries shoulder some of the blame for it reaching this point and not having taken into account how determined Putin is. Putin being Putin is betraying his own people and I can only hope their awareness is improved and given the support they all need to demand regime change there. It is only the rich who have an interest to keep this conflict going The West are far from perfect (see Iraq for instance) but the point about it ‘pushing the boundaries’ personally is incorrect. There are countries who border Russia who joined NATO for security and one of the non negotiables is to not ignore any country within the alliance. That includes making sure they are protected with troops & weapons should a situation like current happens. No one fired weapons into Russia nor had intentions to do so and Russia has no point in this when itself wanders into countries to destabilise them (Georgia, Moldova & Ukraine), tries to bully others to follow suit like the ‘than’ group of countries. Any wonder why many countries all of a sudden want to join NATO because rather than bothered about the West’s questionable reputation, they are scared witless about Russia so no, this is all on Putin & his mate Lukashenko in Belarus The root in the conflict is culture, of many ethnic Russians being treated poorly after independence and the wish of the country to attempt and be independent, but in the end instead end up being de facto controlled the same way but by the West. Russia wouldn't invade as it wouldn't be threatned by troops at its border, and whilst obviously an invasion is very bad for everyone, there are some legitimate security concerns from both sides, which shouldn't have been discarded if there was no invasion. But neutrality may be the best solution as the country is truly independent and both sides would be appeased, if Ukraine was neutral then likely this war wouldn't have happened. It is however obvious that all countries have their interests and will pressure its rivals. |
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Post by WH241 on Feb 27, 2022 16:48:37 GMT
Should bombs capable of vapourizing human bodies over a wide area really be regarded as much different to nuclear? If you are saying use of such weapons is justified, then yes, let's sit back and do nothing. But where will he use them next, and how far will he push weapons then. Dont say it won't happen, despite protestations, the world sat back and let Hitler take Czechoslovakia. What happened next? Saying no more as it is a horrible subject to think about I never even hinted that such action is justifiable, and whilst those Thermarobic bombs are very destructuve to human life and structures, they are not as bad as a nuclear weapons as it does not cause as much impact in area. Obviously if Putin attacks NATO territory there should be a war as the West is committed to defence of those countries however with Ukraine, the West is not committed to its defence, and do not believe dragging the whole world into war over Ukraine is what's right at this stage, but if it spreads or uses nukes then the West should interfere. Maybe i am reading things wrong but sometimes reading your posts I don't think you really appreciate how serious it would be in this turns into a full scale war with Europe. I wouldn't want Thermarobic bombs period! |
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 27, 2022 16:56:06 GMT
I never even hinted that such action is justifiable, and whilst those Thermarobic bombs are very destructuve to human life and structures, they are not as bad as a nuclear weapons as it does not cause as much impact in area. Obviously if Putin attacks NATO territory there should be a war as the West is committed to defence of those countries however with Ukraine, the West is not committed to its defence, and do not believe dragging the whole world into war over Ukraine is what's right at this stage, but if it spreads or uses nukes then the West should interfere. Maybe i am reading things wrong but sometimes reading your posts I don't think you really appreciate how serious it would be in this turns into a full scale war with Europe. I wouldn't want Thermarobic bombs period! If this turns into a full scale war with Europe then my livelihood and all of us are at risk, and Britain will be a target due to its firm stance against Russia so yes that would be terrifying. I think that it would be no benefit if there is war over Ukraine, as it is not NATO terroitry, but I just hope this doesn't spread further into Europe. I think after Ukraine the West's red line is drawn, I just see it unlikely for Russia to cross that red line. The concern with Thermarobic bombs is that they will attack Kyiv, and if that happens then it would be a heinous act of Russia remembered in history as innocent people will sadly die due to these geopolitical games. Obviously this is serious. I do think that NATO should act if Russia provokes the West further into NATO territory. I just hope we avoid this all. |
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 27, 2022 17:00:52 GMT
Despite what my predictions, I hope tomorrow negotiations on the Belarusian-Ukrainian border are productive.
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Post by greenboy on Feb 27, 2022 18:17:53 GMT
This has been doing the rounds on social media............
The Ukraine & Russia crisis In simple terms for those that have no idea what is going on.
-Ukraine used to be in an abusive relationship with Russia, feeding him, letting him use her car & giving him whatever he asked for until she built up the confidence to call it quits back in 1991
-Since then Ukraine has been working on herself, becoming a strong independent woman with help from friends like France, America, Poland etc. offering her support, loaning her money, & helping her find her way.
-Ukraine has been enjoying being single for 30 years & looking forward to continuing to grow & create new friendships.
-Now Russia being the toxic Ex that it is wants her back, and doesn’t want her meeting new people or creating any new relationships.
-A couple of weeks ago Russia started sitting in the front of Ukraine’s house & when her friends ask him what was he doing there, he said “Oh nothing, just getting a little bit of exercise in, that’s all.”
-After her friends told her that Russia was potentially getting ready to do something bad to her, he said “They’re lying, they just want you to be scared of me & that’s not what it is”
-Yesterday Russia broke into Ukraine’s house, beating her up & “taking advantage” of her while on Livestream & double dog daring any of her friends to do something about it & if they do want the smoke, Russia got that thang on him.
This was written by someone else. I can't take credit.
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Post by ServerKing on Feb 28, 2022 6:53:15 GMT
Despite what my predictions, I hope tomorrow negotiations on the Belarusian-Ukrainian border are productive. I think it's a trap... "talks" might be Russia's way to capture their man, especially on territory of Belarus, part of their tag team. There might be "talks", whilst shelling takes place elsewhere in Ukraine. Remember that the Russians are feeling the pinch of losing financial support, even through travel, with assets seized and in the world of sport, they are as welcome as Kurt Zouma at an animal shelter right now. Mention of Thermobaric weapons and threats of "nuclear options" is not something done when you claim to seek peace. Russia has frequently taunted the West with frequent flights into NATO airspace, over France, Scotland in their Tupulev Bear bombers (these aging relics are from the 60s, IIRC), and have been escorted away. Such flights could become more frequent if other countries get sacked into the conflict. There is tension near Belarus and the Polish border, so everyone is on edge. Putin is cornered and desperate, some are quite prepared to go down fighting. News reports describe his regime as Kleptocratic, in that money is being stripped out of Russia and hidden away in offshore and international accounts, hence why real estate in central London and Camden (Highgate Village, Millionaires Row, etc) has come under scrutiny of late. We wait to see what happens next. I can't see it ending well...  |
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 28, 2022 7:39:05 GMT
Despite what my predictions, I hope tomorrow negotiations on the Belarusian-Ukrainian border are productive. I think it's a trap... "talks" might be Russia's way to capture their man, especially on territory of Belarus, part of their tag team. There might be "talks", whilst shelling takes place elsewhere in Ukraine. Remember that the Russians are feeling the pinch of losing financial support, even through travel, with assets seized and in the world of sport, they are as welcome as Kurt Zouma at an animal shelter right now. Mention of Thermobaric weapons and threats of "nuclear options" is not something done when you claim to seek peace. Russia has frequently taunted the West with frequent flights into NATO airspace, over France, Scotland in their Tupulev Bear bombers (these aging relics are from the 60s, IIRC), and have been escorted away. Such flights could become more frequent if other countries get sacked into the conflict. There is tension near Belarus and the Polish border, so everyone is on edge. Putin is cornered and desperate, some are quite prepared to go down fighting. News reports describe his regime as Kleptocratic, in that money is being stripped out of Russia and hidden away in offshore and international accounts, hence why real estate in central London and Camden (Highgate Village, Millionaires Row, etc) has come under scrutiny of late. We wait to see what happens next. I can't see it ending well...  It is very sad indeed. I don't see it happening during the talks rather if Ukraine is not compliant to Russia's demands. It would be very draconian to capture Ukrainian delegation but we can't predict anything at this stage. |
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