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Post by matthieu1221 on Aug 10, 2024 2:12:24 GMT
TfL-mandated minimum number of openable windows I believe... (and possibly size?) Maybe, I have noticed that Double Deck BYD's and Electroliners have 6 in total upstairs It's more than a maybe I believe. Clearly stated in the spec where and how big the window openings have to be.
Page 85.
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Post by cl54 on Aug 10, 2024 4:29:25 GMT
Larger hopper windows would be dangerous for passengers hitting their heads. Could get the LT type of windows that slide open If they were larger sliders rain would soak the passenges. |
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 11, 2024 12:22:35 GMT
Stagecoach has confirmed London orders for the ADL Enviro100 EV and Enviro 400 EV. 24xE100 EV for routes B14 and W12, 17xE400 EV for route SL3.
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Post by ServerKing on Aug 11, 2024 13:35:31 GMT
I have to disagree with your comments about the build quality on MMC’s, they’re certainly a big step up from their predecessors. ADL have learned since the original Enviro products. Certainly the build quality of the pre-ECWVTA spec E200’s (i.e. all E200’s built before late 2011) were terrible and all of the remaining ones now look pretty knackered, not to mention they rattle loads (though some of it can be caused by mechanical components). But since then, I would say they’ve got a grip on things and I find most ADL buses very good to travel on. I have however noticed that recently, the build quality of some BYD Enviro’s have slipped and I commented on this recently when there were a few obvious things missing from SEe331 which should’ve been checked after it left the factory such as a working rear door alarm and rear doors continuously failing on SEe252 when I had that on two separate trips. This is despite those buses being less than a year old, and in the case of SEe331, only being in service a week prior to when I had it. Would be interesting to see how well built the new ADL integral products are, but I do agree with your point about the windows. They look quite silly, very much like an integral BYD design and that’s one thing they shouldn’t have touched when redesigning the product. Quite a few of the MMC's that I've used have been quite rattly, but they tend to be fairly squeaky and the MMC's near me are now 8/9 years old (aside from the fairly nice YX19's at RM) I remember when the SEe's entered service on the 366 and some where in a state from the factory, I recall seeing panels on SEe208 half secured in place and broken destination displays and those buses started rattling fairly fast, but that might be down to the state of some of the roads along the route. The BYD/ADL double decks are far better quality and design wise except the really low headroom at the back of the lower deck (from what I can tell and my limited usage of them). However hearing that ADL have gone for Voith has already lost a bit of my confidence in those buses, as I personally don't like Voiths, but who knows. I'm open to something new and maybe they might be different, in a good way. Voith electric drive should be quite different than conventional diesel. Not sure if they will have "gears", like the Volvo BZL 2 speed box. |
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Post by M1104 on Aug 11, 2024 14:00:57 GMT
Quite a few of the MMC's that I've used have been quite rattly, but they tend to be fairly squeaky and the MMC's near me are now 8/9 years old (aside from the fairly nice YX19's at RM) I remember when the SEe's entered service on the 366 and some where in a state from the factory, I recall seeing panels on SEe208 half secured in place and broken destination displays and those buses started rattling fairly fast, but that might be down to the state of some of the roads along the route. The BYD/ADL double decks are far better quality and design wise except the really low headroom at the back of the lower deck (from what I can tell and my limited usage of them). However hearing that ADL have gone for Voith has already lost a bit of my confidence in those buses, as I personally don't like Voiths, but who knows. I'm open to something new and maybe they might be different, in a good way. Voith electric drive should be quite different than conventional diesel. Not sure if they will have "gears", like the Volvo BZL 2 speed box. Probably will be a single gear drive like the Voith hybrid drive on the E40Hs |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Aug 11, 2024 15:15:03 GMT
Could get the LT type of windows that slide open If they were larger sliders rain would soak the passenges. They also aren't particularly fantastic at getting air circulation neither. Best breeze you get from those is when the bus turns and the air is forced in sideways as a result. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 11, 2024 15:58:57 GMT
If they were larger sliders rain would soak the passenges. They also aren't particularly fantastic at getting air circulation neither. Best breeze you get from those is when the bus turns and the air is forced in sideways as a result. Yeah I agree the sliding windows don't seem to be any good at getting air in compared to the hopper windows. The rain is also a huge problem as the amount of soaked seats I've accidentally day on is ridiculous. Is there a reason they installed sliding windows instead of hopper windows? |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 11, 2024 17:02:13 GMT
If they were larger sliders rain would soak the passenges. They also aren't particularly fantastic at getting air circulation neither. Best breeze you get from those is when the bus turns and the air is forced in sideways as a result. I disagree - the sliders used on the step entrance vehicles were excellent in bringing air into the saloon. Many hopper windows are poor in comparison. Eastlondoner62 hopper windows have issues with the rain, particularly at the front of old body Enviro 400's. There is no issue with bringing circulation in through sliding windows - the LT's are a poor example because they radiate so much heat to begin with |
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Post by DE20106 on Aug 11, 2024 18:38:43 GMT
If they were larger sliders rain would soak the passenges. They also aren't particularly fantastic at getting air circulation neither. Best breeze you get from those is when the bus turns and the air is forced in sideways as a result. Omg talking of air circulation, I was on a Norwich Electroliner today and my god they’re utterly unbearable in the heat. The air cooling is non existent and two tiny opening windows on either side is a joke. The wave of heat hits you as soon as you get on. The one saving grace of Wright’s pathetically small windows was that it was meant to keep the heat out, but fat load of good they do. My opinion of the Electroliner is really souring now, don’t like them at all, nearly as much as the StreetDeck (& Gemini 3). The more I go on the Norwich ones the more I dislike them, they’ve got so many flaws. The only 1-up they have on the competition is the slightly more generous seating layout downstairs, but the rest of the bus is naff imo. Not to mention the wonderful extra diesel StreetDecks we’re getting from Leicester and Leeds 🤮 |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 11, 2024 19:35:25 GMT
They also aren't particularly fantastic at getting air circulation neither. Best breeze you get from those is when the bus turns and the air is forced in sideways as a result. Omg talking of air circulation, I was on a Norwich Electroliner today and my god they’re utterly unbearable in the heat. The air cooling is non existent and two tiny opening windows on either side is a joke. The wave of heat hits you as soon as you get on. The one saving grace of Wright’s pathetically small windows was that it was meant to keep the heat out, but fat load of good they do. My opinion of the Electroliner is really souring now, don’t like them at all, nearly as much as the StreetDeck (& Gemini 3). The more I go on the Norwich ones the more I dislike them, they’ve got so many flaws. The only 1-up they have on the competition is the slightly more generous seating layout downstairs, but the rest of the bus is naff imo. Not to mention the wonderful extra diesel StreetDecks we’re getting from Leicester and Leeds 🤮 Is there any reason the Norwich ones only have 2 windows? The London ones have 3 and they have no issue with heat on the ones I've used in London (I was on a WDE on Tuesday for example and it was fine). I've used Streetdecks outside London and while gutless performance wise, never had an issue with them from a heat point of view (none of these are recent ones, newest one was say three years old) |
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Aug 11, 2024 21:40:25 GMT
Voith electric drive should be quite different than conventional diesel. Not sure if they will have "gears", like the Volvo BZL 2 speed box. Yeah but we'll see if the bus is chronically underpowered, slow or loud like other Voiths |
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Aug 11, 2024 21:41:47 GMT
Is there any reason the Norwich ones only have 2 windows? The London ones have 3 and they have no issue with heat on the ones I've used in London (I was on a WDE on Tuesday for example and it was fine). I've used Streetdecks outside London and while gutless performance wise, never had an issue with them from a heat point of view (none of these are recent ones, newest one was say three years old) Evosetis are by far the worst buses I've ever experienced in the summer, the windows are far too small and the AC is pathetic. |
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Post by DE20106 on Aug 11, 2024 21:51:54 GMT
Omg talking of air circulation, I was on a Norwich Electroliner today and my god they’re utterly unbearable in the heat. The air cooling is non existent and two tiny opening windows on either side is a joke. The wave of heat hits you as soon as you get on. The one saving grace of Wright’s pathetically small windows was that it was meant to keep the heat out, but fat load of good they do. My opinion of the Electroliner is really souring now, don’t like them at all, nearly as much as the StreetDeck (& Gemini 3). The more I go on the Norwich ones the more I dislike them, they’ve got so many flaws. The only 1-up they have on the competition is the slightly more generous seating layout downstairs, but the rest of the bus is naff imo. Not to mention the wonderful extra diesel StreetDecks we’re getting from Leicester and Leeds 🤮 Is there any reason the Norwich ones only have 2 windows? The London ones have 3 and they have no issue with heat on the ones I've used in London (I was on a WDE on Tuesday for example and it was fine). I've used Streetdecks outside London and while gutless performance wise, never had an issue with them from a heat point of view (none of these are recent ones, newest one was say three years old) I don’t know, tbh I think First have made as many mistakes with speccing the buses, as Wright have with the manufacturing. All First Electroliners have only two opening windows on each side, and to not have a single opening window at the front of the bus. Honestly whoever made that decision to spec it like that deserves to be sacked. It’s such a major, major, unforgivable flaw. The air cooling feels like an asthmatic man coughing out of the air vents, even when you put your hand to the vent the amount of air coming out of them (which isn’t even cold) really is pathetic. I’ve been on four Norwich electroliners on the warm days we’ve had this year, and they were all the same. So it’s clear they’ve been designed like that, not that the driver forgot to put the chiller on, it’s completely unacceptable. What this stinks of by First is cost cutting. While I’ve been on one of the 67-reg ex Leeds diesel StreetDecks, which was as pathetically gutless and jerky as any other I’ve been on. It also wasn’t in the best of nick, there were bodge job metal panels nailed onto the bus wall below the windows, which shows the flimsiness of the vehicles. The weather wasn’t warm that day, so the air cooling wasn’t on. Can’t comment on the sufficiency of the temperature of the diesel StreetDecks. But I do remember having a mixed bag on similar Gemini 3’s in previous years, I remember being impressed with the air cooling on many of Arriva London’s G3’s. But I also remember the 44’s WSD’s not being very good at all heat wise. The thing that I find most insulting about these vehicles is just the sheer backward progress with Wright’s newer offering. As I highlighted a couple of weeks ago, it’s the same in Norwich that these Electroliners are not even worth a carrot next to the 11/12-reg G2’s they’re replacing. With Wright going from making such exceptional vehicles in the 2000’s to about 2013, to the utter tosh they’re making today, it’s so easy to see how they went bust in 2019 |
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Post by DE20106 on Aug 11, 2024 21:55:16 GMT
Is there any reason the Norwich ones only have 2 windows? The London ones have 3 and they have no issue with heat on the ones I've used in London (I was on a WDE on Tuesday for example and it was fine). I've used Streetdecks outside London and while gutless performance wise, never had an issue with them from a heat point of view (none of these are recent ones, newest one was say three years old) Evosetis are by far the worst buses I've ever experienced in the summer, the windows are far too small and the AC is pathetic. The AC that you experience on the EvoSeti’s is exactly that the Norwich electroliners are like. What’s more is I actually remember being really impressed with the EvoSeti’s cooling system when they were new, the 17-reg TT ones, and GAL’s first 16-reg batch blew out ice cold air when they were new. Maybe due to the cheaper build quality the air systems have degraded over time. Luckily the MCV bodywork on the BZL DD’s has really been stepped up, the air cooling on 86181 worked a treat too. Hope it lasts this time as they age! |
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Aug 11, 2024 22:01:23 GMT
The AC that you experience on the EvoSeti’s is exactly that the Norwich electroliners are like. What’s more is I actually remember being really impressed with the EvoSeti’s cooling system when they were new, the 17-reg TT ones, and GAL’s first 16-reg batch blew out ice cold air when they were new. Maybe due to the cheaper build quality the air systems have degraded over time. Luckily the MCV bodywork on the BZL DD’s has really been stepped up, the air cooling on 86181 worked a treat too. Hope it lasts this time as they age! ADL buses are generally a hit or miss with their AC some work fine and some barely breathe out any form of air on you, despite coming from the same fleet and garage. I do recall in winter that the EV's on the 366 would always be blowing out cold air into the interior and making the handrails uncomfortably cold to hold onto, whilst the 396 batch seem to mostly have their AC's off |
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