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Post by SILENCED on Aug 22, 2023 11:01:46 GMT
So I everyone 1 in 100 paracetamol could kill you, you would continue happily taking them as they were good odds? When you talking about life and death those are shocking odds. Yes, I would. The same reason why people opt for surgeries with low mortality rates, the risk outweighs the benefit. If that is how little value you put on your own life, explains a lot |
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 22, 2023 11:04:35 GMT
As much as I can understand the case for it I am against capital punishment. I have seen too many miscarriages of justice in my life time. It is bad enough people are released after 20 years imprisonment for crimes they did not commit. How do you even begin to rectify the situation if you have executed them. Sure people were convinced of their guilt when they were convicted. And it is not beyond a shadow of a doubt, but beyond reasonable doubt. I love how people are described as innocent when found not guilty. This is not the case, just there was not enough evidence to prove their guilt. Does not mean they did not commit the crime. Understandable but in the Lucy Letby case she was clearly guilty. Bringing back the death penalty is almost impossible due to the complications. Even in the US when people get sentenced to death, they are placed on death row for around 10-15 years. In 2014, there was review of past executions in the US, and to use their results, they reckon 4% now probably not guilty of the crimes they were executed for. I don't think holding up the US legal process as a good example is something I would encourage. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Aug 22, 2023 11:16:24 GMT
Yes, I would. The same reason why people opt for surgeries with low mortality rates, the risk outweighs the benefit. If that is how little value you put on your own life, explains a lot So if you stood in a line up of 100 people and a scientist said take this pill but 1 of you will die and 99 of you will survive you would refuse knowing full well there’s a 99% survival rate? If the whole of humanity did that every day we wouldn’t have thrived to become the dominant species on the planet, we would have no doubt died off. This has veered wildly away from my points but to go back to my original point I would fully support the death penalty for extreme cases like Lucy Letby providing there are a series of conditions met and providing the case is proven without a shadow of a doubt with verifiable evidence to fully back up each and every claim which is then fully verified in a multi stage level which is then reconfirmed by an independent verification auditing process. |
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Post by enviroPB on Aug 22, 2023 12:18:17 GMT
As much as I can understand the case for it I am against capital punishment. I have seen too many miscarriages of justice in my life time. It is bad enough people are released after 20 years imprisonment for crimes they did not commit. How do you even begin to rectify the situation if you have executed them. Sure people were convinced of their guilt when they were convicted. And it is not beyond a shadow of a doubt, but beyond reasonable doubt. I love how people are described as innocent when found not guilty. This is not the case, just there was not enough evidence to prove their guilt. Does not mean they did not commit the crime. Understandable but in the Lucy Letby case she was clearly guilty. Bringing back the death penalty is almost impossible due to the complications. Even in the US when people get sentenced to death, they are placed on death row for around 10-15 years. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. However you cannot proclaim innocence if you do not show up to sentencing to give one last attempt. Even her lawyers said very little in their final pleas. Complete contrast to Lucy being bedside for those dead or dying babies, watching them struggle for life but doing nothing as a healthcare professional. This case and the victims from it saddens me deeply. All of the 4,000 babies she helped care for during her ghastly career are being reviewed. As controversial as the death penalty is, I would like to see her alive if she is ever tried for subsequent cases. And for this case in particular, death is an easy punishment. I am rather comforted knowing a young 33 year old, already in custody for 5 years before sentencing; is spending the rest of her life in prison thinking of the heinous crimes that got her there. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 22, 2023 14:14:25 GMT
Understandable but in the Lucy Letby case she was clearly guilty. Bringing back the death penalty is almost impossible due to the complications. Even in the US when people get sentenced to death, they are placed on death row for around 10-15 years. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. However you cannot proclaim innocence if you do not show up to sentencing to give one last attempt. Even her lawyers said very little in their final pleas. Complete contrast to Lucy being bedside for those dead or dying babies, watching them struggle for life but doing nothing as a healthcare professional. This case and the victims from it saddens me deeply. All of the 4,000 babies she helped care for during her ghastly career are being reviewed. As controversial as the death penalty is, I would like to see her alive if she is ever tried for subsequent cases. And for this case in particular, death is an easy punishment. I am rather comforted knowing a young 33 year old, already in custody for 5 years before sentencing; is spending the rest of her life in prison thinking of the heinous crimes that got her there.
There have been cases where people have been wrongly tried though which is why in more than 99% of cases it wouldn't be worth bringing back the death penalty. However I don't think she will serve any remorse, she will never think that what she did was wrong. The problem is that when people get as psychologically ill like her, they don't think they did any wrong, although some criminals deny the charges to try to get a lesser sentence. |
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Post by greenboy on Sept 27, 2023 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by cardinal on Sept 27, 2023 12:22:02 GMT
This may be controversial but I get annoyed reading comments from the mayor of London in responding to these incidents. Speaking from knowledge, the mayors office does nothing at all to help. Croydon and Bromley will get no extra police on a long term basis. They won’t get any funding for outreach workers , youth clubs etc. All the former neighbourhood teams have been reduced. Town centre teams are used for other duties. Because there isn’t enough resources to go round. There are very few role models who try to redress the behaviour of our young people. The slightest feud or petty dispute can boil over into this violence because the mindset of some is almost programmed into resolving it through violence. I dread to think the actual number of our teenagers walking around armed with knives for the own protection or for other unlawful purposes. They stand relatively little chance of beinf stopped and searched by police. The pendulum swung way out years ago in terms of any political or community support for that sort of enforcement so we are now left with a community in fear , young people in fear , criminals with a boldened sense of impunity and a much reduced law enforcement presence (who routinely take the place now of ambulances , mental health support and social services ) I feel sorry for Croydon and Bromley because it is outer London boroughs that feel the impact of these cuts the most. |
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 27, 2023 12:36:17 GMT
This may be controversial but I get annoyed reading comments from the mayor of London in responding to these incidents. Speaking from knowledge, the mayors office does nothing at all to help. Croydon and Bromley will get no extra police on a long term basis. They won’t get any funding for outreach workers , youth clubs etc. All the former neighbourhood teams have been reduced. Town centre teams are used for other duties. Because there isn’t enough resources to go round. There are very few role models who try to redress the behaviour of our young people. The slightest feud or petty dispute can boil over into this violence because the mindset of some is almost programmed into resolving it through violence. I dread to think the actual number of our teenagers walking around armed with knives for the own protection or for other unlawful purposes. They stand relatively little chance of beinf stopped and searched by police. The pendulum swung way out years ago in terms of any political or community support for that sort of enforcement so we are now left with a community in fear , young people in fear , criminals with a boldened sense of impunity and a much reduced law enforcement presence (who routinely take the place now of ambulances , mental health support and social services ) I feel sorry for Croydon and Bromley because it is outer London boroughs that feel the impact of these cuts the most. Outer London Boroughs should get the same settlement as Inner London Boroughs if not better, as the days of Inner London being more deprived than Outer London have been consigned to the history books |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 27, 2023 13:38:54 GMT
This may be controversial but I get annoyed reading comments from the mayor of London in responding to these incidents. Speaking from knowledge, the mayors office does nothing at all to help. Croydon and Bromley will get no extra police on a long term basis. They won’t get any funding for outreach workers , youth clubs etc. All the former neighbourhood teams have been reduced. Town centre teams are used for other duties. Because there isn’t enough resources to go round. There are very few role models who try to redress the behaviour of our young people. The slightest feud or petty dispute can boil over into this violence because the mindset of some is almost programmed into resolving it through violence. I dread to think the actual number of our teenagers walking around armed with knives for the own protection or for other unlawful purposes. They stand relatively little chance of beinf stopped and searched by police. The pendulum swung way out years ago in terms of any political or community support for that sort of enforcement so we are now left with a community in fear , young people in fear , criminals with a boldened sense of impunity and a much reduced law enforcement presence (who routinely take the place now of ambulances , mental health support and social services ) I feel sorry for Croydon and Bromley because it is outer London boroughs that feel the impact of these cuts the most. Outer London Boroughs should get the same settlement as Inner London Boroughs if not better, as the days of Inner London being more deprived than Outer London have been consigned to the history books Has it been consigned to the history books? Plenty of deprived areas across Inner London so why must we continue to play Inner & Outer off against each other like some silly north vs south divide just because Croydon Council bankrupted themselves. Everywhere needs investment at the end of the day and ignoring one part or the other just defeats any objective. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Sept 27, 2023 13:54:57 GMT
Sadly knife crime is becoming more common in London especially amongst teenagers. I blame people having a poor upbringing by their parents and a lack of education about this topic in schools
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 27, 2023 13:58:13 GMT
Outer London Boroughs should get the same settlement as Inner London Boroughs if not better, as the days of Inner London being more deprived than Outer London have been consigned to the history books Has it been consigned to the history books? Plenty of deprived areas across Inner London so why must we continue to play Inner & Outer off against each other like some silly north vs south divide just because Croydon Council bankrupted themselves. Everywhere needs investment at the end of the day and ignoring one part or the other just defeats any objective. Why should Outer London get less per head than Inner London? If Croydon got the same as Lambeth, I still think we would be in the shite, but not as deep in it. Its all very well having your approach when you are on the better end of the deal ! |
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Post by TB123 on Sept 27, 2023 14:09:39 GMT
Sadly knife crime is becoming more common in London especially amongst teenagers. I blame people having a poor upbringing by their parents and a lack of education about this topic in schools I blame the government having defunded the police, the criminal justice system and youth services over the last 10 or so years. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 27, 2023 15:01:22 GMT
Has it been consigned to the history books? Plenty of deprived areas across Inner London so why must we continue to play Inner & Outer off against each other like some silly north vs south divide just because Croydon Council bankrupted themselves. Everywhere needs investment at the end of the day and ignoring one part or the other just defeats any objective. Why should Outer London get less per head than Inner London? If Croydon got the same as Lambeth, I still think we would be in the shite, but not as deep in it. Its all very well having your approach when you are on the better end of the deal ! Where did I say Croydon should get less? I said everyone should be invested in equally and I've always said this - it's got nothing to do with being on the better end of it and Lambeth has far from always been on the better end of it. Where I disagree with you is where we start picking and choosing which areas to invest in which is exactly what is happening now in regards to Outer London. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 27, 2023 15:04:20 GMT
Sadly knife crime is becoming more common in London especially amongst teenagers. I blame people having a poor upbringing by their parents and a lack of education about this topic in schools I blame the government having defunded the police, the criminal justice system and youth services over the last 10 or so years. I think they are all certainly contributions but I do think northlondon83 makes a good point in regards to the standard of parenting and upbringing as well. Growing up on an estate, I've seen more than my fair share of both good and bad upbringings for kids |
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 27, 2023 15:22:24 GMT
Why should Outer London get less per head than Inner London? If Croydon got the same as Lambeth, I still think we would be in the shite, but not as deep in it. Its all very well having your approach when you are on the better end of the deal ! Where did I say Croydon should get less? I said everyone should be invested in equally and I've always said this - it's got nothing to do with being on the better end of it and Lambeth has far from always been on the better end of it. Where I disagree with you is where we start picking and choosing which areas to invest in which is exactly what is happening now in regards to Outer London. But Croydon does get less than Lambeth. Despite a population that is 60k greater, we receive £95m less from central government. It should be evened up over the whole of London rather than inner London going yeah I am all right while outer London suffers. Why do inner London Boroughs receive more than outer London per capita? It should be evened out, which will mean outer London gets more, whilst inner London gets less |
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