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Post by buspete on Oct 7, 2023 16:55:21 GMT
Anyone remember these bus routes, which I think were Kentish Bus when they disappeared and got absorbed by Bexleybus.
So with these coming into the London Buses network, were these routes improved? Thinking better frequencies or where you could go?
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Post by bustavane on Oct 7, 2023 17:47:23 GMT
Anyone remember these bus routes, which I think were Kentish Bus when they disappeared and got absorbed by Bexleybus. So with these coming into the London Buses network, were these routes improved? Thinking better frequencies or where you could go? Or the 492A which morphed through the 494 to become the B14? |
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Post by Catford94 on Oct 7, 2023 21:02:00 GMT
I remember them but not in detail. The Kentish Bus network was a bit changeable at the time - there was competition (outside London at least) from Transcity, and I think KB had reverted to the 'proper' 4xx numbers by 1988, partly in response to Transcity running green buses with the old 4xx numbers in competition on many routes. I don't think LRT ever allowed Transcity's commercial routes to come in to London - I'm not entirely sure how this worked at the time.
I can't remember what the timetables were like, or what the position was with fares and pass acceptance.
One thing that did get less passenger friendly was most routes being split at Dartford (the 480 continued to run through to Erith until 1999 when the Erith end became the 428) and then soon after that, some LRT routes including the 428 were extended through to Bluewater.
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Post by redexpress on Oct 8, 2023 6:16:30 GMT
I remember them but not in detail. The Kentish Bus network was a bit changeable at the time - there was competition (outside London at least) from Transcity, and I think KB had reverted to the 'proper' 4xx numbers by 1988, partly in response to Transcity running green buses with the old 4xx numbers in competition on many routes. I don't think LRT ever allowed Transcity's commercial routes to come in to London - I'm not entirely sure how this worked at the time. I can't remember what the timetables were like, or what the position was with fares and pass acceptance. One thing that did get less passenger friendly was most routes being split at Dartford (the 480 continued to run through to Erith until 1999 when the Erith end became the 428) and then soon after that, some LRT routes including the 428 were extended through to Bluewater. Was the 492A (mentioned above) not a commercial route by TransCity? It certainly operated within London. |
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Post by lonmark on Oct 8, 2023 7:02:46 GMT
Route 492A runs Monday to Friday between Bexleyheath and Sidcup via Albany Park with some journeys running to North Cray Early morning and the last journeys running to Swanley. One AM starts early from West Kingdom runs via Swanley and North Cray before rejoining at Sidcup route. However, it didn't run last by Trancity so Kentish Bus bought this company and carried on still with 492A until 1996 then rerouted to 494 making it easy for passengers to know which bus route to run rather than London bus 492 already there in Sidcup. In 30th January 1999, B14 started to take over route 494 and reroute to Queen Mary's Hospital and run by Crystal. check out on here: www.timetablegraveyard.co.uk/scantab492A_Swanley.htm |
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Post by Catford94 on Oct 8, 2023 12:09:09 GMT
Was the 492A (mentioned above) not a commercial route by TransCity? It certainly operated within London.
Oops. I missed the 492A's existence entirely (although I'd moved away from the SE London patch by 1992) - I was led to understand that LRT wouldn't let them in to Orpington when they were competing on the 477.
As I said, things were still changing fairly rapidly then...
Was the 492A competing with anything (at the time) on the section inside London? And was there LRT pass acceptance?
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 8, 2023 17:41:45 GMT
Anyone remember these bus routes, which I think were Kentish Bus when they disappeared and got absorbed by Bexleybus. So with these coming into the London Buses network, were these routes improved? Thinking better frequencies or where you could go? 401 has a long history that belies its current Thamesmead to Bexleyheath shuttle tendencies. All the way down to Sevenoaks at one stage. The southern end of that 401 is now I think largely Go-Coach route 2, and this has a very low number of journeys - Swanley to Sevenoaks is best done by train. 421 provided a Bexleyheath to Swanley service that might be a nice little link now. 492 used to hang out with a 491 that did not dissimilar things. Eventually the 492 became the major partner and it absorbed the 491, but that broke the link from Northumberland Heath to Dartford. You can still clearly see the green roots in the current 492, but the green one travelled from Bexleyheath via the 229 to Barnehurst, then Barnehurst Station and route 99 to Barnehurst village, where it picked up the current route, however the round the houses bit between Crayford and Dartford used to be the responsibility of the 486 - the 492 went direct from Crayford to Dartford. The Horton Kirby part of the 492 has long since been passed to other services. I suppose the 486 could be best summarised as current 401 to Bexleyheath and then current 492 to Dartford. It was culled in the Bexleybus scheme by the stronger and more well known 401, plus the diversion of the 492. Feel free to correct any errors I have made! |
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Post by buspete on Oct 8, 2023 17:51:38 GMT
Belvedere, Slade Green and Barnehurst seemed to be London and Country territory.
With the Bexleybus 401 this gave a consistent 20 minute service between Bexleyheath and Belvedere. Bedonwell Road got a frequency boost with the B12 and 422. So I do wonder with the old London Country bus service, if it provided an even frequency, or was there 2 buses 5 minutes apart than a 25 minute wait, if you get my drift?
Same with the 492/486 at Barnehurst Village did both buses provide an even 15 minute split?
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Post by redexpress on Oct 8, 2023 21:28:08 GMT
Was the 492A (mentioned above) not a commercial route by TransCity? It certainly operated within London.
Oops. I missed the 492A's existence entirely (although I'd moved away from the SE London patch by 1992) - I was led to understand that LRT wouldn't let them in to Orpington when they were competing on the 477.
As I said, things were still changing fairly rapidly then...
Was the 492A competing with anything (at the time) on the section inside London? And was there LRT pass acceptance?
I'm not really familiar with that part of London so can't answer in any detail. As far as I can tell the 492A/494 was one of those routes that filled in gaps in the existing LT network, which probably explains why it was allowed to operate in London, unlike routes that directly competed with existing services.
Not sure about pass acceptance, but similar commercial routes elsewhere did accept London passes in those days.
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Post by buspete on Oct 9, 2023 22:57:55 GMT
Originally the 492A run around the North Cray Estate, which is unserved by any bus route now.
The 492 from what I can remember has always been a 30 minute frequency. Surprised the frequency hasn’t been upped to 15 minutes and converted to a single decker, maybe revisit the North Cray Estate again.
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 10, 2023 5:19:25 GMT
Originally the 492A run around the North Cray Estate, which is unserved by any bus route now. The 492 from what I can remember has always been a 30 minute frequency. Surprised the frequency hasn’t been upped to 15 minutes and converted to a single decker, maybe revisit the North Cray Estate again. It was a 30 minute frequency as I recall in London Country days too. 15 minutes might be overkill but it seems popular enough to go to a 20 minute frequency in Monday-Saturday daytime. I’d keep double deckers. |
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Oct 11, 2023 16:05:22 GMT
I can remember using the old London Country/Kentish Bus 492 in the days before it was absorbed into Bexleybus in 1988. I'm also sure I remember a non-LT bus stop at Carlyle Road/Crossway in Thamesmead which I always thought was for the 401, although that could be wrong.
Worth pointing out that the London Country 486 was a different route altogether to the current TfL 486, with only Bexleyheath in common.
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Post by buspete on Oct 11, 2023 17:48:37 GMT
Indeed the 486 was a completely different route, I had never linked the two before.
The old 486 run from Dartford to Bexleyheath via current 492 route then to Thamesmead via the current 401 route, every half hour. It was a London Country/Kentish Bus route.
Does anyone have anymore history on it please?
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Post by greenboy on Oct 11, 2023 18:07:14 GMT
I vaguely remember the 491 in Barnehurst, if I remember correctly it ran from Belvedere to Dartford and onto Horton Kirby?
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Post by Catford94 on Oct 11, 2023 22:54:34 GMT
Indeed the 486 was a completely different route, I had never linked the two before. The old 486 run from Dartford to Bexleyheath via current 492 route then to Thamesmead via the current 401 route, every half hour. It was a London Country/Kentish Bus route. Does anyone have anymore history on it please?
From the 1970 Mike Harris map, London Country 486 -
Belvedere (works journeys to / from Generating Station, peak hours to / from Railway Station, off peak to / from 'Eardley Arms' - via Picardy Road, Bedonwell Road, Long Lane (more or less current 401) to Bexleyheath, then Mayplace Road, Crayford High Street, Crayford (current 492) then Crayford Way, Thames Road, Burnham Road to Dartford Town Centre (not a direct bus route any more), then East Hill, St Vincents Road to Bow Arrow Lane.
From the 1976 Mike Harris map, same as 1970 as far as Crayford town centre, then Station Road, Chastillian Road, Shepherds Lane (more or less current 492) to Dartford, then East Hill, St Vincents Road, Attlee Drive (Temple Hill), Henderson Drive to Joyce Green Hospital (sort of current 497)
I don't have anything to hand to say whether it changed round early 80's MAP (Market Analysis Project, which saw quite a lot of cuts / changes) or after deregulation.
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