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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 12, 2024 8:15:32 GMT
I think it’s a possibility new route (as I said before I imagine 310 will be the number used), should go through almost entirely separate areas to the 210, running through Crouch End, Highgate Station, part of the A1 & the Hampstead Garden Suburb. There is the risk though that this could take away demands from other routes instead though, especially the W7. The W7 is designed as a commuter route linking Muswell Hill & Crouch End to the tube at Finsbury Park whereas this new route is linking Stamford Hill to Golders Green via whatever inbetween so the W7 won't be affected pretty much at all. The 210 is the one with the most effect happening to it because I find it extremely unlikely any new route will run to Golders Green via Crouch End & Muswell Hill. My worry is that what will happen is it won't be a new route but the 210 will drop back to single decker instead, which is a poor move if it happens personally, and the Golders Green to Brent Cross section tagged onto a different route - probably the 268 given it's short overall routing and small common section with the 210 up to Jack Straws Castle. The only way I could see a new route co-existing with the 210 would be if it only duplicated the Golders Green to Archway section with the new route running via Holloway, Nags Head, Finsbury Park, Upper Tollington Park, Harringay Green Lanes, St Anns Road & Stamford Hill which would avoid large duplications in the main and potentially create some new links. It would also take it under two low bridges and so would justify single deckers being used The proposed routing that I had does parallel the W7 between Finsbury Park & Crouch End but the W7 would likely still have its use & not be made redundant. I want the ‘310’ to take a different routing to the 210 so that the 210 isn’t required to change at all. You could even send the route via Turnpike Lane/Horsney instead. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Apr 12, 2024 8:45:46 GMT
Tell me you don't understand democracy without telling me you don't understand democracy. It's not a bribe. It's policies. People vote for policies. You don't get them without voting for said politician. To suggest it is, is absurd. "They" should be looking to introduce these services? TfL is an organisation with democratic oversight by an elected Mayor. Elected politicians are going to decide the strategy through the Mayor's Transport Strategy. Sadiq has done announcements recently on violence against women, police, council housing, jobs and much more. Keep up dear! I personally think it's great buses are getting some attention I think what feels a little unorthodox is the minutiae of the announcement. You'd expect just a big announcement that x million will be pledged on buses with this as the guiding principles with TfL then deciding the specifics post-election (so something vague like Ken's ill-fated 2008 campaign, or even perhaps all his campaigns) -- the pledge to bring buses back into public ownership for example. Maybe it's a sign that money has dried up so much that pledges are now on an individual-route basis rather than a nice package of service uplifts. More bus is better than less bus in my opinion though. So hopefully the trickle of extra services promised from Bakerloop to this continues as the campaign heats up. Money is certainly in short supply so what little there is will get spent on high profile Mayoral initiatives, targeting specific groups or locations. It’s all politics. That said, I would welcome the opportunity for TfL to introduce a few experimental bus services or bus service alterations in response to local demand on a use it or lose it basis, this seemed to happen under LT when bus service changes were more frequent. The current network seems much more inflexible with little opportunity for change from the bottom up. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Apr 12, 2024 8:58:28 GMT
I think it’s a possibility new route (as I said before I imagine 310 will be the number used), should go through almost entirely separate areas to the 210, running through Crouch End, Highgate Station, part of the A1 & the Hampstead Garden Suburb. There is the risk though that this could take away demands from other routes instead though, especially the W7. The W7 is designed as a commuter route linking Muswell Hill & Crouch End to the tube at Finsbury Park whereas this new route is linking Stamford Hill to Golders Green via whatever inbetween so the W7 won't be affected pretty much at all. The 210 is the one with the most effect happening to it because I find it extremely unlikely any new route will run to Golders Green via Crouch End & Muswell Hill. My worry is that what will happen is it won't be a new route but the 210 will drop back to single decker instead, which is a poor move if it happens personally, and the Golders Green to Brent Cross section tagged onto a different route - probably the 268 given it's short overall routing and small common section with the 210 up to Jack Straws Castle. The only way I could see a new route co-existing with the 210 would be if it only duplicated the Golders Green to Archway section with the new route running via Holloway, Nags Head, Finsbury Park, Upper Tollington Park, Harringay Green Lanes, St Anns Road & Stamford Hill which would avoid large duplications in the main and potentially create some new links. It would also take it under two low bridges and so would justify single deckers being used I think converting a revised 210 to SDs could possibly work if TFL look at the 268/603 corridor at the same time. While this would reduce capacity slightly by using SDs, an new all day route along the 603 corridor (also using SDs) would mean two routes in parallel between Hampstead (Whitestone Pond) and Highgate Village. In this case, the 268 could reroute to go via Highgate and Muswell Hill, no longer serving Golders Green. Then have another DD route cover the Brent Cross - Golders Green - Hampstead link. |
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 12, 2024 9:05:39 GMT
Tell me you don't understand democracy without telling me you don't understand democracy. It's not a bribe. It's policies. People vote for policies. You don't get them without voting for said politician. To suggest it is, is absurd. "They" should be looking to introduce these services? TfL is an organisation with democratic oversight by an elected Mayor. Elected politicians are going to decide the strategy through the Mayor's Transport Strategy. Sadiq has done announcements recently on violence against women, police, council housing, jobs and much more. Keep up dear! I personally think it's great buses are getting some attention Oh seriously is there really a desperate need for a bus service from Golders Green to Stamford Hill? And if there is why wasn't it introduced at the start of his tenure? And why the sudden concern about violence against women? His record on violence in general has been nothing short of lamentable. I imagine you are old enough to have lived through many elections. It's all about making promises in marginal seats and then breaking them. All politicians and all parties do it. Will this new connection (not convinced this is not just a proposal to extend the 210 personally) ever materialize? I doubt it. The other statements are the areas he has been in charge for years and has done little to change things, so why should he start to change things now, other than to try and influence the stupid and gullible amongst the electorate. His past record could come back to haunt him if challenged too hard in these areas. |
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Post by mondraker275 on Apr 12, 2024 9:22:16 GMT
I am not sure there is the demand and as said TfL have looked at this and there was no business case for such a route and I am unsure anything has changed other than politics. I am not quite sure how if re-elected the pledge can be made good without opening up the floodgates to other such ideas. That said, I think a bus linking GG and Stamford Hill is actually a good idea. The expectation would be take a lot of long distance travellers, so why not leave the 210 alone and introduce a new Superloop bus taking the fastest direct route possible with limited stops and perhaps even going onto to say Clapton. This would attract more long distance travellers as the bus would be real viable alternative and hopefully get people out of their cars. I was going to suggest this. This makes more sense than anything else. The idea you convert a whole route to single decker and extend it a little bit when there is already the 253/254 to change at Finsbury Park makes little sense. However, an express route would make at least some time savings and not interfere as much with the 210. There is not much stand space anywhere for an adjustments to 210 or a new route. GG to Stamford Hill express would be short so I dont mind the extension to Clapton, but maybe extend further to Whipps Cross or via Orient Way to terminate at Leyton, Drapers Field where there is a vacant stand and will enable a new link between Leyton station and Clapton and further, which I know would be helpful. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 12, 2024 11:13:54 GMT
I am not sure there is the demand and as said TfL have looked at this and there was no business case for such a route and I am unsure anything has changed other than politics. I am not quite sure how if re-elected the pledge can be made good without opening up the floodgates to other such ideas. That said, I think a bus linking GG and Stamford Hill is actually a good idea. The expectation would be take a lot of long distance travellers, so why not leave the 210 alone and introduce a new Superloop bus taking the fastest direct route possible with limited stops and perhaps even going onto to say Clapton. This would attract more long distance travellers as the bus would be real viable alternative and hopefully get people out of their cars. I was going to suggest this. This makes more sense than anything else. The idea you convert a whole route to single decker and extend it a little bit when there is already the 253/254 to change at Finsbury Park makes little sense. However, an express route would make at least some time savings and not interfere as much with the 210. There is not much stand space anywhere for an adjustments to 210 or a new route. GG to Stamford Hill express would be short so I dont mind the extension to Clapton, but maybe extend further to Whipps Cross or via Orient Way to terminate at Leyton, Drapers Field where there is a vacant stand and will enable a new link between Leyton station and Clapton and further, which I know would be helpful. I wonder if the route could go via Wood Green, taking any one of the numerous ways to get from Stamford Hill to Wood Green, where it would serve a major town centre. It could then follow the 221’s LOR to the A406 & can run non stop between Bounds Green & Golders Green via the A406 & Finchley Road. It could also be DD in this case. |
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Post by WH241 on Apr 12, 2024 12:21:34 GMT
Really not a fan of Sadiq using the election to bribe London with new bus routes. If there is demand on these corridors for these services they should be looking to introduce the routes regardless. He maybe needs to start looking at other issues away from buses. I will probably get shot down in flames. Tell me you don't understand democracy without telling me you don't understand democracy. It's not a bribe. It's policies. People vote for policies. You don't get them without voting for said politician. To suggest it is, is absurd. "They" should be looking to introduce these services? TfL is an organisation with democratic oversight by an elected Mayor. Elected politicians are going to decide the strategy through the Mayor's Transport Strategy. Sadiq has done announcements recently on violence against women, police, council housing, jobs and much more. Keep up dear! I personally think it's great buses are getting some attention Do you have to be so patronising ? Frankly you are just rude and never seem to learn. I hope you are not so rude to people in the real world and when at work. I make no secret of not be that interesting in politics but it doesn’t take a genius to see through these recent promises of bus routes based on wining elections! As far as I recall this is the first time this tactic is being used. I wouldn’t mind if he was offering money to expand the network in general rather than trying to win votes on certain new routes. The mayor is frankly desperate and putting far too much focus on buses as it’s easy PR for him. That’s all I am saying on this as frankly I can’t be bothered replying to you as you just lay in waiting to have a dig at me. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Apr 12, 2024 13:04:07 GMT
I think what feels a little unorthodox is the minutiae of the announcement. You'd expect just a big announcement that x million will be pledged on buses with this as the guiding principles with TfL then deciding the specifics post-election (so something vague like Ken's ill-fated 2008 campaign, or even perhaps all his campaigns) -- the pledge to bring buses back into public ownership for example. Maybe it's a sign that money has dried up so much that pledges are now on an individual-route basis rather than a nice package of service uplifts. More bus is better than less bus in my opinion though. So hopefully the trickle of extra services promised from Bakerloop to this continues as the campaign heats up. Money is certainly in short supply so what little there is will get spent on high profile Mayoral initiatives, targeting specific groups or locations. It’s all politics. That said, I would welcome the opportunity for TfL to introduce a few experimental bus services or bus service alterations in response to local demand on a use it or lose it basis, this seemed to happen under LT when bus service changes were more frequent. The current network seems much more inflexible with little opportunity for change from the bottom up. Public ownership should help. Takes an absurd amount of time between consultation, tendering (or renegotiation) and what-not nowadays. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 12, 2024 13:23:23 GMT
Money is certainly in short supply so what little there is will get spent on high profile Mayoral initiatives, targeting specific groups or locations. It’s all politics. That said, I would welcome the opportunity for TfL to introduce a few experimental bus services or bus service alterations in response to local demand on a use it or lose it basis, this seemed to happen under LT when bus service changes were more frequent. The current network seems much more inflexible with little opportunity for change from the bottom up. Public ownership should help. Takes an absurd amount of time between consultation, tendering (or renegotiation) and what-not nowadays. The only shortened obstacle would be the tendering/negotiation stage. The consultation, risk assessments, sourcing additional vehicles, union hurdles, staffing etc would all still exist. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 12, 2024 15:11:36 GMT
They could maybe look at this again with the desire to link Royal Free to Highgate Village as was talked about before.
Maybe a 310 could run Stamford Hill to Finsbury Park then over the 210 to GG with the 210 cut back to Archway but extended over the 268 to Finchley Road. Not sure thou if the Belsize Aveneue section could take DDs thou with the GG to Brent Cross section replaced by something else.
If there was no low bridge issues my suggestion would be run the 253 as one route from Euston to Aldagte (maybe just to Whitechapel with the 106 maintaining a Clapton to Aldgate link) and add extra capacity between Stamford Hill Garage and Finsbury Park by extending the 210 to SF.
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 12, 2024 17:54:30 GMT
It’s an interesting thing to promise to people. I think he can be forgiven if the single deck element is dropped from the pledge. Possibly to the ire of people in Stroud Green who might want a service that goes beyond Finsbury Park, but those are probably not the votes he’s aiming at with this.
The 210 could possibly be rerouted between Archway and Finsbury Park via Holloway Road to provide more new links and replace the 254. Possibly (definitely) an unwieldy route to operate and the 106/254 might have to swap termini at their eastern ends but it’s not an easy pledge to plan around. Care would have to be taken not to crowd the 106 as I can see there are some journeys in there.
That would be a saving scheme overall so something would have to be spent on replacing the 210 between Archway and Finsbury Park, the 143 perhaps.
The link has been requested since forever but promising the 210 throws up issues that might force a wider service review unless funds are made available for it. If done as promised the 210 would need + 3 PVR for an extension to Stamford Hill, then possibly +8 or 9 for a three step frequency increase to maintain capacity and accommodate the uplift from a more frequent service. A few pounds less to operate singles rather than doubles but overall a very expensive scheme without other adjustments to the local network. There’s probably too much going on to lower the road under the bridge, but if it can be done it would be beneficial to the public purse in the long run.
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Post by redexpress on Apr 12, 2024 21:25:18 GMT
There’s probably too much going on to lower the road under the bridge, but if it can be done it would be beneficial to the public purse in the long run. I was under the impression that the tube tunnels are too close to the road surface to allow the road to be lowered. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 12, 2024 22:08:08 GMT
It’s an interesting thing to promise to people. I think he can be forgiven if the single deck element is dropped from the pledge. Possibly to the ire of people in Stroud Green who might want a service that goes beyond Finsbury Park, but those are probably not the votes he’s aiming at with this. The 210 could possibly be rerouted between Archway and Finsbury Park via Holloway Road to provide more new links and replace the 254. Possibly (definitely) an unwieldy route to operate and the 106/254 might have to swap termini at their eastern ends but it’s not an easy pledge to plan around. Care would have to be taken not to crowd the 106 as I can see there are some journeys in there. That would be a saving scheme overall so something would have to be spent on replacing the 210 between Archway and Finsbury Park, the 143 perhaps. The link has been requested since forever but promising the 210 throws up issues that might force a wider service review unless funds are made available for it. If done as promised the 210 would need + 3 PVR for an extension to Stamford Hill, then possibly +8 or 9 for a three step frequency increase to maintain capacity and accommodate the uplift from a more frequent service. A few pounds less to operate singles rather than doubles but overall a very expensive scheme without other adjustments to the local network. There’s probably too much going on to lower the road under the bridge, but if it can be done it would be beneficial to the public purse in the long run. I imagine tfl would avoid sending anything else down Holloway Road after they withdrew the 271 from that corridor. A bit of weird rearranging but perhaps the 134 could takeover the 4’s section on Dartmouth Park Hill & Magdala Ave. This would give Whittington Hospital new links to both Kentish Town & Muswell Hill areas that currently do not exist. The 210 could then run on Junction Road, then takeover the 4’s LOR to Finsbury Park & could extend to Stamford Hill as stated. Either one of the 153 or 236 could replace the 210’s current section to Archway. You could go all out & divert the 56 or 476 to Blackfriars to replace the Southern end of the 4, then the 4 could be withdrawn. On the Golders Green end, the 102 could simply reroute via the 210’s LOR & the 226/460 could swap LOR’s between Cricklewood & Golders Green, so that the 460 keeps the 102’s existing links to Henly’s Corner. |
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Post by lundnah on Apr 12, 2024 22:08:10 GMT
Primary evidence from a reporter who was there:
"Khan... scored a big early hit by announcing TfL will be extending the 210 bus route to provide a direct, single-decker link between Stamford and Golders Green, home areas to London’s largest Orthodox Jewish communities, answering a long-standing request."
These facts might calm our speculation a little. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 12, 2024 22:45:13 GMT
Primary evidence from a reporter who was there:
"Khan... scored a big early hit by announcing TfL will be extending the 210 bus route to provide a direct, single-decker link between Stamford and Golders Green, home areas to London’s largest Orthodox Jewish communities, answering a long-standing request."
These facts might calm our speculation a little. Just on this Blackie is out for me. He cited Sutton Living as a model City Hall could use to develop housing. Clearly he has done zero research as they have completed 3 projects since being set up in 2016 delivering just 54 flats in 8 years!! Terrible model to cite. Next he’ll be citing SEND as a good model for special educational needs in London. |
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